There was a nice send off from LOS with music playing and food on hand at the gate, and loads of flags and balloons everywhere as well as the usual speeches etc.
The airline is advertising the route as knocking 8 hours off the normal routing to JFK via a connection in Europe which should be good news for travellers on the route, although I feel that with only a 3 times a week service, the regular travellers may want more flexibility that a daily service would offer.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
Wazobia From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 20 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3321 times:
Quoting Leezyjet (Thread starter): There was a nice send off from LOS with music playing and food on hand at the gate, and loads of flags and balloons everywhere as well as the usual speeches etc.
The airline is advertising the route as knocking 8 hours off the normal routing to JFK via a connection in Europe which should be good news for travellers on the route, although I feel that with only a 3 times a week service, the regular travellers may want more flexibility that a daily service would offer.
This is great, I bet it was a great party. My family travels to Nigeria a lot. I hope this brings down the fares. A direct flight is heaven.
AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3211 times:
Oh yes, the airline with eight across seating in a 767. Won't find many business travelers on that flight. I doubt that the route will last very long unless it is subsidized, or if it continues the frequency will be reduced.
Wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4553 posts, RR: 17 Reply 3, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3179 times:
Quoting AirCop (Reply 2): Oh yes, the airline with eight across seating in a 767. Won't find many business travelers on that flight.
Sigh. I admit that NAO needs to get that damn seat map down off its web site. They have four and soon five 767-300ERs in the fleet, and the aircraft normally assigned to Africa service won't/don't have that configuration.
You probably didn't notice that the original post said that the config was 38C/176Y. In a 767-300ER. That's approximately equivalent to the KLM international configuration, which is 30C/190Y. In the KLM config it's 31-32" pitch in coach with typical 767 2-3-2 seating, and 55" pitch in biz.
The 8-across coach config allows 266 coach and 12 biz seats, or 278 seats. The Africa service aircraft have 214 seats, or 64 fewer seats than what you're talking about. So, yes, I think there will be some biz travelers on the flight.
Cory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6 Reply 4, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3168 times:
What did North American do to bribe the Nigerian government to allow them to fly the route that CO wasn't willing to do to get EWR-LOS?
Wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4553 posts, RR: 17 Reply 5, posted (6 years 10 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3114 times:
Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 4): What did North American do to bribe the Nigerian government to allow them to fly the route that CO wasn't willing to do to get EWR-LOS?
I don't know that it was an issue of getting permission to CO to fly from EWR as much as it was figuring out the logistics in the foreign country and whether it would be worth the hassle and expense. But I could be remembering this wrong. In any event, NAO opened up JFK-Ghana and BWI-Ghana, and now DL is going to fly JFK-Ghana and probably kill NAO off that route. I'm pretty confident that if NAO is successful on JFK-Nigeria, CO may resurrect its interest in the EWR route.
LouA340 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 376 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2995 times:
NOA seems to have opened up the interest of some of the larger American airlines to flying direct to Africa. Its JFK-ACC and BWI-BJL-ACC routes have been very succesfull and I know the LOS one will also do quite well.
I know that people use to travel to ACC from Abidjan and Lome to catch that flight to JFK.
I wount be very surprised if Continental also start up talks about starting up LOS again now that Delta is also moving in.
I might even be too optimistic to say that maybe even American or Air Canada might also look into some African routes in the furture.
ETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 9 Reply 7, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2962 times:
Quoting AirCop (Reply 2): Oh yes, the airline with eight across seating in a 767. Won't find many business travelers on that flight. I doubt that the route will last very long unless it is subsidized, or if it continues the frequency will be reduced.
Ouch! Leg cramp!
Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 4): What did North American do to bribe the Nigerian government to allow them to fly the route that CO wasn't willing to do to get EWR-LOS?
I think it was that CO wanted to bribe the government, which the government refused. NA is going the right way about doing things.
Quoting LouA340 (Reply 6): I might even be too optimistic to say that maybe even American or Air Canada might also look into some African routes in the furture.
AA maybe, Air Canada, very doubtful. Air Canada is not even codesharing on STAR Alliance flights to Africa operated by the likes of Lufthansa, something it would have done had it seen any of these destinations as having potential.
AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2937 times:
Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 3): You probably didn't notice that the original post said that the config was 38C/176Y
You're right, I didn't. I just don't see how they can be successful on this route, with no feed, lack of marketing, most people don't have a clue who North American is. Add that to the history of World Airways on scheduled service well that is why I'm not sure it will work, although good luck to them and nothing venture nothing gain.
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 4915 posts, RR: 55 Reply 9, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2915 times:
Quoting Leezyjet (Thread starter): The airline is advertising the route as knocking 8 hours off the normal routing to JFK via a connection in Europe which should be good news for travellers on the route, although I feel that with only a 3 times a week service, the regular travellers may want more flexibility that a daily service would offer.
= I think there will be strong VFR demand on the route - especially since I know quite a few Africans who hate the treatment they get while transiting through Europe. Business passengers would probably stick with their Europe routings primarily because of FFPs, flatbed, frequency, etc.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31107 posts, RR: 74 Reply 10, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2903 times:
Quoting ETStar (Reply 7): AA maybe, Air Canada, very doubtful. Air Canada is not even codesharing on STAR Alliance flights to Africa operated by the likes of Lufthansa, something it would have done had it seen any of these destinations as having potential.
Actually, Air Canada has been looking at potentially flying YYZ-JNB via Miami. I doubt it will happen because of Visa issues, but they are/were looking at South Africa. Non-stop would from YYZ would be the best way to do it, IMO.
Clipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 671 posts, RR: 14 Reply 11, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2874 times:
I just don't see how they can be successful on this route, with no feed, lack of marketing, most people don't have a clue who North American is.
To the contrary. They have marketed heavily in the area that they needed to, i.e. New York, Baltimore, etc. Word of mouth is by far the best form of advertsing for any African market. Don't sell them short. Remember too that people who led Wolrd Airways through scheduled service long ago are no longer around. This is a very good niche market provided they don't get taken up with all of the corruption that goes with the territory.
Letsgetwet From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 609 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2849 times:
Quoting ETStar (Reply 7):
I think it was that CO wanted to bribe the government, which the government refused. NA is going the right way about doing things.
It is common knowlege that you can't even buy a postage stamp in Nigeria without paying a bribe.
Leezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 55 Reply 13, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2771 times:
Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 12): It is common knowlege that you can't even buy a postage stamp in Nigeria without paying a bribe.
What total and utter BS. Granted the country is renowned for corruption, but this is mainly due to the military rule in the past. The government here is trying hard to get away from that reputation and get things back on track, but after the amount of money that has been stolen from this wealthy nation over the past few decades, it is going to take time.
Quoting AirCop (Reply 8): I just don't see how they can be successful on this route, with no feed, lack of marketing, most people don't have a clue who North American is.
They are running alot of adverts on Nigerian TV at the moment featuring some nice shots of the a/c flying over NYC. Judging by the amount of baggage containers that came off yesterday's i/b flight, I would say that things are starting to pick up quite quickly.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
EurostarVA From Bahrain, joined May 2002, 1296 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2754 times:
Wasn't NAA supposed to codeshare with Bellview on this flight? I wonder why Bellview is out of the loop, perhaps they are the 2nd carrier to be designated by Nigeria on the US route....
ETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 9 Reply 17, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2685 times:
Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 12): It is common knowlege that you can't even buy a postage stamp in Nigeria without paying a bribe.
Really? When was the last time you went there? How much did you pay the last time you wanted a postage stamp? How much does the bribe go for a pack of gum? I would need it for my budget. Thank you in advance.
AirFranceJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 471 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2669 times:
The aircraft North American will be using for Lagos is N765NA, the same aircraft pictured in an earlier post, with 30C/176Y. The higher density B767's are usually used on the charter and AMC runs. As someone said earlier, there has been alot of advertisement within the Nigerian and U.S. ethnic markets. However, by far, word of mouth is the best advertisement. So far, outbound loads for the first week of flights to Lagos are pretty good. Loads to Accra are also very high as is the service out of BWI, so all in all, not a bad sell.
Wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4553 posts, RR: 17 Reply 19, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2647 times:
Quoting AirCop (Reply 8): I just don't see how they can be successful on this route, with no feed, lack of marketing, most people don't have a clue who North American is.
You're right that this is largely an O/D market for NAO, and that a lot of people have never heard of North American. But, as Clipper002 said, they have tightly targeted their marketing dollars in the communities here and abroad that are likely to use the service. The Ghana service suffers the same structural impediments that you describe, and yet is doing well enough that DL is jumping onto the route. As Clipper002 points out, word of mouth is worth a lot, and I'll bet there isn't a travel agency in the communities in the NYC area with large Nigerian populations that isn't aware of the service and hasn't been introduced to who NAO is. Also, the ACC service does appear on at least some GDSs, such as Orbitz, at least as an o/d pair from JFK. The LOS service also shows on Orbitz now, although is not ticketable directly on NAO's web site. I notice that the LOS service does require paper tickets; don't know about ACC, although that may explain why some and not other flights are available on the NAO web site. Orbitz shows the JFK-ACC service to save 8 hours over the next-quickest connecting flight eastbound and a little more than that westbound. On short-advance-purchase, it's also thousands of dollars cheaper round-trip, which is another incentive for people to give it a try.
Wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4553 posts, RR: 17 Reply 20, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2636 times:
Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 13): They are running alot of adverts on Nigerian TV at the moment featuring some nice shots of the a/c flying over NYC. Judging by the amount of baggage containers that came off yesterday's i/b flight, I would say that things are starting to pick up quite quickly.
Fascinating. With a terrific livery and Manhattan as a background, I will bet that those are appealing commercials. Good for NAO. Smart move.
Also, let us know in a week or so how the loads appear, if you would. I'd be curious. Thanks!!
Letsgetwet From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 609 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2617 times:
Quoting ETStar (Reply 17): Really? When was the last time you went there?
I, personally have never been there, but I have friends who have. From listening to their adventures, seeing video and pictures, I think I would rather go to Beirut. Maybe you could give us a trip report when you go.
Leezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 55 Reply 22, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2591 times:
Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 21): I, personally have never been there, but I have friends who have. From listening to their adventures, seeing video and pictures, I think I would rather go to Beirut. Maybe you could give us a trip report when you go.
Ahh the good old, my friend told me line - ever thought they hyped it up to make it sound more exciting/interesting/put the place down more as is usual with "my friend told me" stories ?.
Well I too had heard all the stories about this place, and I have now been here for 22 days and I haven't seen anything untoward going on. Sure there are some sights that you would not see in any western country, but that is what makes this world such an interesting place -maybe you should get out of the fortress once in a while and try it out.
Oh BTW until last week Beirut was actually a very up and coming destination until the Israelies decided to blow the cr@p out of it for no reason.
Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 20): Fascinating. With a terrific livery and Manhattan as a background, I will bet that those are appealing commercials. Good for NAO. Smart move.
Also, let us know in a week or so how the loads appear, if you would. I'd be curious. Thanks!!
I'll see what I can find out. I'm not actually working with them, but their handling agent is the same one my airline uses so I'll have to ask them.
The commercials do look quite good, but you can tell they have been done on a shoestring budget - maybe that is the Nigerian editing though, their TV stations are not exactly broadcasting in digital yet !!.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
Wazobia From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 20 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (6 years 10 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2519 times:
Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 22): Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 21):
I, personally have never been there, but I have friends who have. From listening to their adventures, seeing video and pictures, I think I would rather go to Beirut. Maybe you could give us a trip report when you go.
Being half Nigerian and lived both here and there...as you know Nigeria is not a vacation spot.(when I was a child we flew TW) I am sure the bulk of traffic is people going home to visit and Business men. With the oil companys in Nigeria, and importing mainly. A lot of Nigerian's living abroad have or are building home in Nigeria.Most every Nigerian I have mentions this new route to is very wary because of being burned by other airlines offering service to Nigeria. They reply let me know when CO DL AA or some other airline they trust is flying that route. That being said if they can save $1000 and once word of mouth spread from people who have flown. I feel that this route will do very well.
As for African-Americans in General even with Nigeria's bad rep alot are interested in traveling to Nigeria but the high airfare has turned them off. I actualy took a group to Nigeria it was a lot of work and after the culture shock most of them loved it and a few have been back.
Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 14): Quoting AirCop (Reply 8):
I just don't see how they can be successful on this route, with no feed, lack of marketing, most people don't have a clue who North American is.
Living in the Midwest I haven't seen any marketing at all. The Nigerian community here does have a lot of functions, the marketing department needs to get people on the ground not just ads. I already bought my ticket home for Christmas via BA or I would try this route. I really hope they succeed.
Lima From Argentina, joined May 1999, 1122 posts, RR: 16 Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2365 times:
Wazobia,
Did you mean you used to fly WT (Nigeria Airways)?
I remember they used to fly JFK-Lagos with DC10. My dream flight as I always been interested on the airline.
How was it then?
Greetings
Sebastian
25 UK_Dispatcher: Not bad for a first flight.... My sentiments exactly, LeezyJet. Very nice place, and I look forward to my next visit there soon, despite what has bee
26 Wazobia: No, I have never flown WT to many complaints from my family and friends who did. They never departed on time an many other issues. My first flight wa
27 Clipper002: Quotting Wazobia (Reply 26) My first flight was back in the 60's when I was only 4yrs old. I am pretty sure it was TW, will check with Mom to confirm.
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