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Top Five Airlines With Net Profit For 2005.  
User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7938 times:

Date: July 2006.
Source: ATW.

Air France-KLM 1,112,227
FedEx 963,858
Singapore Airlines 784,641
British Air 765,946
Emirates761,400.

Note how fast Emirates are moving up.

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFly727 From Mexico, joined Jul 2003, 1789 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7878 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
FedEx 963,858

Cargo doesn't eat, complain, sits quietly and always pay full fare. The greatest deal in aviation.

RM  Smile



There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
User currently offlineTCXDegsy From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 517 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7848 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
Date: July 2006.
Source: ATW.

Air France-KLM 1,112,227
FedEx 963,858
Singapore Airlines 784,641
British Air 765,946
Emirates761,400.

Note how fast Emirates are moving up.

Forgive me, but what currency are these figures in??



next flights: BA1441 0566 0581 1446 EDI-LHR-MXP-LHR-EDI
User currently offlineN844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7783 times:

This thread made me nostalgic for the late '90s, so I went to go look up some of AMR's old annual reports. Man, those guys were printing money back then. With fuel prices being what they are, I'm not sure when -- or if -- they'll get back to billion-dollar profits, but at least they have the rest of their costs under control.


New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7764 times:

Currency in US dollars.

User currently offlinePavlin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7741 times:

Air France-KLM as one airline. But still nice profit
Singapore airlines also, why is there not Lufthansa.
Normal airlines should make loses wright now, it is just the way it is


User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7659 times:

Lufthansa at #8, net profit of 536,555 USD.

User currently offlineMindscape From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7497 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
Air France-KLM 1,112,227

Is it possible to have the breakdown between AF and KL ?
Thank you


User currently offlineAussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7403 times:

is that before or after tax? As that affects the outcome for some airlines noticably

User currently offlineAntares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 39
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7323 times:

To really rank profitability and mask differences in tax, depreciating and accounting rules, the best way is to calculate the margin calculated on gross turnover and pretax profits before abnormals.

That pushes everyone into a similar situation, where net margins pull in local factors.

And use a common currency.

I'm not even going to bother trying, since on a global scale, you get too many qualifications and the comparison is largely symbolic or pointless at a personal investor level.

And of course some of the more profitable players on that basis will be freight lines and the likes of Ryanair, and good on them too.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11273 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7308 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 4):
Currency in US dollars.

Funny... no US airlines.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7299 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):

Funny... no US airlines.

more like a sad state of affairs.. Sad



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7225 times:

Quoting Mindscape (Reply 7):

Sorry, no break-down between AF/KL with regards to net profit.
Both are considered to be one company.


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7152 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
Funny... no US airlines.

No surprise there then?

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
Air France-KLM 1,112,227
FedEx 963,858
Singapore Airlines 784,641
British Air 765,946
Emirates761,400.

So you are telling me the most profitable airlines made ~ US$1m for the whole of 2005? It's complete BS there -

  • Air France KLM GROUP - GROSS E1455m - NET E913m - 2.5% return on equity - MARGIN 4.4%
  • SIA GROUP - GROSS S$1662m - NET S$1240m - 9.6% return on equity
  • BAW GROUP - GROSS £620m - NET £451m - 7.1% return on equity - MARGIN 8.3%
  • UAE OPS - GROSS AED2,649m - NET AED2475m - 11.5% return on equity
  • FedEx has more business than flying aeroplanes so shouldn't even be on the list

    And one major force you missed (2005 pre Dragonair takeover)
  • CPA GROUP - GROSS HK$3968m - NET HK$3298m - 9.4% return on equity - MARGIN 7.4%

    Annual Reports
    AFR KLM SIA UAE BAW CPA



  • A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
    User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2369 posts, RR: 3
    Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7135 times:

    By the way, notice on a side note that all the highly profitable airlines now days (besides FedEx which should not be on this list) all are major fliers of the 777. Looks like the aircraft which Airbus describes as being too expensive to buy is making good returns.

    User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
    Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7030 times:

    Quoting Mindscape (Reply 7):
    Is it possible to have the breakdown between AF and KL ?
    Thank you

    We as employees got the separate numbers not to long ago. I do not have
    the exact numbers right now but I remember that out of the net 913M Euro
    profit KLM made 500+ millions and AF 400+ millions. Considering the individual
    size of the two companies I think it's fair to say KLM is doing an exceptional
    job here!!!


    User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4407 posts, RR: 76
    Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6964 times:
    Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

    Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 15):
    Considering the individual
    size of the two companies I think it's fair to say KLM is doing an exceptional
    job here!!!

    Sorry, but you can't use these computations that way. The KLM part of the airline is making a lot of money mainly because of the group effect in terms of network, procurements...
    By the same token, AF's margin seems low compared to BA's, for instance. It is due to the network system on which the European feeder flights have a tarification program that is meant to just break even . The money comes mostly from the long range flights.( BA has just about given up on Europe).
    That said, your performance is a credit to your dedication.



    Contrail designer
    User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
    Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6871 times:

    Quoting Pihero (Reply 16):
    That said, your performance is a credit to your dedication.

    Sounds like the french boss talking to the dutch worker~



    A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
    User currently offlineGBOAC From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 221 posts, RR: 5
    Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6786 times:

    Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
    British Air 765,946

    There's no such airline of which I am aware. I am aware of the profitable British Airways, though...


    User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1387 posts, RR: 10
    Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6772 times:

    Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 13):
    So you are telling me the most profitable airlines made ~ US$1m for the whole of 2005? It's complete BS there -

    I am sure the figures are in thousands ('000s)


    User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4407 posts, RR: 76
    Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6748 times:
    Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

    Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 17):
    Sounds like the french boss talking to the dutch worker~

    No. Respect for what colleagues have achieved.And, because I work with them, I should know.
    What a lot of A.netters, especially the other side of the Manche fail to understand is how much the two operations have been integrated without any component having the right to say they.ve been cheated by the new network system. If anything, the KLM people seem to be more optimistic than the AF ground staff, probably because working in CDG at the moment is very hard. AMS has a very smooth operation, compared.
    Do I smell some sour grapes here in your comment ?



    Contrail designer
    User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
    Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6733 times:

    Quoting Pihero (Reply 20):
    AMS has a very smooth operation

     rotfl   rotfl   eyepopping   faint   eek   embarrassed   covereyes   confused 

     cool 

    Quoting Pihero (Reply 20):
    compared.

    Yes, in that case you might be right.


    User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
    Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6733 times:

    Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 14):
    By the way, notice on a side note that all the highly profitable airlines now days (besides FedEx which should not be on this list) all are major fliers of the 777. Looks like the aircraft which Airbus describes as being too expensive to buy is making good returns.

    And 3 of the 5 have A340 fleets too.....

    Actually using your logic it should be pointed out that the Top 2 airline groupings have sizeable fleets of MD-11s - perhaps more airlines should have seen the value of these  Smile

    I think you'll find that its not their aircraft choices that are the reason these airlines are at the top of the profitability rankings right now....

    For the record, other notable 777 operators include: UA, DL, AA, CO, OS, MH, RG......  Wink



    Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
    User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7471 posts, RR: 17
    Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6632 times:

    Quoting Pihero (Reply 16):
    BA has just about given up on Europe

    In their annual report BA Chairman, Peter Broughton said - see link at bottom of Reply 13 and go to page 5):

    Another highlight is that our shorthaul business is back in the black for the first time in ten years but there is still much work to be done.

    So which is it? Have they 'just about given up on Europe' or is there 'still much work to be done' on their shorthaul business?


    User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4407 posts, RR: 76
    Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6346 times:
    Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

    Quoting VV701 (Reply 23):
    So which is it? Have they 'just about given up on Europe' or is there 'still much work to be done' on their shorthaul business?

    In 2004, BA was the most profitable airline in the world, and that sums pretty much the BA management strategy : go for profit instead of growth.
    The quote from Broughton's report hides the fact that BA has lost more than 30% of short haul revenue in the last five years.
    On the long haul - and it has to be noted that BA, contrary to LH or AF/KL has a point to point structure, vs hub,-BA has lost 10 % of its revenues during which time LH increased theirs by 50 % and AF by 45 %.
    Please understand that I am not making a judgement of value, here, merely stating numbers and at the same time acknowledging the difficulty BA would have setting up a hub at LHR.
    One has also to remark that BA is the legacy airline the hardest hit by the LCC phenomenon.
    That BA is going all out on prime high end services is quite clever and probably the only winning strategy they have available.
    But it's quite risky as a further glance on BA revenue structure shows a whopping 70 % of business revenues realised on the North Atlantic, a sort of exposure which is unknown both at LH and AF/KL.



    Contrail designer
    User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4248 posts, RR: 6
    Reply 25, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6282 times:

    Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
    Funny... no US airlines.

    Isn't FedEx a US airline??  Smile

    I know what you mean though D L X. There are a few US passenger airlines making money but it is rare and there is not too money to be made.



    None shall pass!!!!
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