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I Want To Fly For Air France  
User currently offlineORDTerminal1 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 129 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6418 times:

Ok, just for example...Air France. Is it possible for an American who speaks French with a University Degree in Aviation Technology and has accrued the necessary amount of hours specified by Air France to achieve employment to fly?


717, 727, 732,733, 734, 735, 738, 742, 744, 752, 763, 319, 320, 340, F100
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCXB744 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6406 times:

Check out: http://devenirpiloteairfrance.com/

All in French.

Good Luck!



What is it? It's A 747-400, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineA340600 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 4105 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6391 times:

Air France are a fantastic airline, my second favourite below BA. I love flying them and their crews are always friendly, professional and look very experienced. If I learn to speak French better when i'm older I may consider AF,

Sam Smile



Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24727 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6376 times:

Generally for a European company one must hold EU citizenship. As an American you dont have employement nor residency rights within the EU.

Air France in particular gets much of its pilots from ENAC the French national civil aviation university in Toulouse.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineA340600 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 4105 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6366 times:

Etre de nationalité d'un pays membre de l' Espace Economique Européen
ou de nationalité Suisse
et s'exprimer couramment dans la langue française.


You would need to get EU or Swiss residency,

Sam



Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6356 times:

And when they say you need to speak French well, they mean really well. Not a little bit well. Not to say it is not worth trying, but having been an American who sort of made it into a European airline, I will tell you it is an uphill battle. But if this knuckledragger can do it then I guess you can too.

First thing you need to do is get residency in France or and EU country or Switzerland.

Good luck!

With all that said, I would go work for Air France immediately if I could.



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineCRGsFuture From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6326 times:

OK, here's a question where do EI, BA, and BD get their pilots from and as an American who speaks English (with such a proficiency I could be a voice over guy) can I fly for them?


Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6298 times:

Quoting ORDTerminal1 (Reply 6):
moi, je parle assez couramment

That would seem a little to Montreal for AF..  wink 


User currently offline777-200 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1020 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6268 times:

How's the pay for European airlines compainred to airlines in the states?


Another Day, Another Dollar.... Young Jeezy
User currently offlineSaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1610 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6251 times:

European airlines pay better but generally hire only from their own countries. Also, when I speak of European airlines I am speaking of the big, national carriers like AF, LH, BA, etc.

Those are good airlines to work for where you can really make a good career. Good pay, benefits, etc. Less fooling around with stupid logistics. They know how to run an operation.

But they are also very difficult to get into. You have to have residency in their country (or EU or Switzerland) and you have to pass an extremely selective screening process just to get into their school. Most of those airlines hire mostly from their own schools. And after you pass the selection you still have to pass the school - not a cakewalk. Then you may still not be assured of a job as you will still have to go before a hiring board.

But if you make it that far, your chances are pretty good.

I did not make it that far, but flew for Crossair with the hope of going to Swissair later. But that was not to be because Swissair folded and Crossair absorbed the operation of Swissair. Without going into the crap that happened there, suffice it to say that even getting into Crossair was not easy.

But it can be done. But there are a lot of obstacles that need to be overcome and the schools in Europe tend to be thorough and much tougher than in the US, with the possible exception of Embry-Riddle.

So there.  Big grin



smrtrthnu
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (7 years 12 months 19 hours ago) and read 6044 times:

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 6):
here's a question where do EI, BA, and BD get their pilots from

Flying schools, mainly across England, however, they have been know to take pilots from America, so if you join the right school, then you have a chance.
But, you need the right to live and work in the United Kingdom, and Europe (I think) freely.

Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8653 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (7 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 6009 times:

Good luck young chap. Remember, anything is possible today.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4383 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (7 years 12 months 10 hours ago) and read 5783 times:
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Air France recruits from four sources :
1/- ENAC, Ecole nationale de l'Aviation civile. To get in , one has to go through a competitive exam. It is just about impossible to succeed for a non-French student as the curriculum is very specialised (The need is at least two years of preparation classes called Math Sup (for advanced maths) and Math Spe (for special -ised maths) to have any chance of getting into the next step, which is flight selection in which your progress in a flight training sequence to a solo is judged.
2/- The Air Force. You have to be a french citizen.
3/- The AF cadet scheme. The requirements are two years of university, or the previously talked about Prep classes...the written ALTP is recommended. A very thorough screening process will then start, mainly based on psychological profile. Once you get into flight school, your progress will be constantly monitored by AF examiners... two years after joining the school,you'll then go to the process of first qual -the 320- and you should be tested for your "lacher", meaning line release after six months.
4/-Hiring with experience : If you're already flying professionally, an experience commensurate with your age will be considered. Most of the non-French presently flying with us come from this source, generally from established airlines Sabena, SAS, Alitalia, ....and now Easyjet...As some have noted, you again need residency.
It's a nice airline to work for : the network, even on the European division is quite extensive, the fleet is fairly young and the choice of planes rather nice (to chose between 330/340, 777, 744 is imo a rich man's dilemma.)
Working in France means job security (furloughing exists on another planet, not here !), probably the best medical care in the world, a good pension that is guaranteed by the state -to which you could add your own scheme-, and last but not least rather fast promotions at the moment : about eight years to command on the 320, another six to eight for a long haul left-hand seat and
these periods seem to be going down.
Hope this info helps. It's not easy but probably worth it. And remember that the most beautiful dreams are those that are fulfilled.

Regards



Contrail designer
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5394 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (7 years 12 months 9 hours ago) and read 5781 times:

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 6):
and as an American who speaks English (with such a proficiency I could be a voice over guy)

Have English people told you that?  Wink


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineORDTerminal1 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 12 months 9 hours ago) and read 5765 times:

Pihero,

Are you saying that if I took route number 4, by establishing myself with a well known airline for a few years, then gained French citizenship (all the while becoming proficient in French) I could be at least considered?

In addition, would I have to be based in France, or would I be given the option to remain in the U.S. (The only reason I ask is because I read somewhere that some pilots for United commute from Australia)

Oh and thank you to everyone for answering. You have all given me great information.

[Edited 2006-07-19 02:45:29]


717, 727, 732,733, 734, 735, 738, 742, 744, 752, 763, 319, 320, 340, F100
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3902 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 12 months 9 hours ago) and read 5724 times:
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Quoting ORDTerminal1 (Reply 14):
Are you saying that if I took route number 4, by establishing myself with a well known airline for a few years, then gained French citizenship (all the while becoming proficient in French) I could be at least considered?

Citizenship from most, but not all, EU-member countries will do, French citizenship isn't necessary. If you really want to be an AF pilot, you can at least shop around for which qualifying citizenship is the easiest to gain, not a simple task in itself.

I think having an ATPL from an accredited school based in the same group of EU-member countries as those qualifying for citizenship is a requirement (doesn't have to be the same country as that of your citizenship though). Having several hours at another JAR 25 carrier will be an asset.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5052 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (7 years 12 months 9 hours ago) and read 5697 times:

Um, why do you want to fly for AF  Wink? Read their reviews on most sites. However, if you end up going for it ... good luck. VIVA YOU!

-A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4383 posts, RR: 76
Reply 17, posted (7 years 12 months 8 hours ago) and read 5691 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ORDTerminal1 (Reply 14):
Are you saying that if I took route number 4, by establishing myself with a well known airline for a few years, then gained French citizenship (all the while becoming proficient in French) I could be at least considered?



Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 15):
Citizenship from most, but not all, EU-member countries will do, French citizenship isn't necessary. If you really want to be an AF pilot, you can at least shop around for which qualifying citizenship is the easiest to gain, not a simple task in itself.

Yes, with the proviso provided by BlueFlyer. You would be considered if you are resident of the western part of the EU + Switzerland.
A recognised JAR licence is the requirement. US ATR will not be accepted.

Quoting ORDTerminal1 (Reply 14):
In addition, would I have to be based in France, or would I be given the option to remain in the U.S. (The only reason I ask is because I read somewhere that some pilots for United commute from Australia)

When you start, you'll be on the medium haul division. You'll have 12 days off a month, with mandatory periods of respectively five and two consecutive days.
There is no bidding system but a block preference. The result is it would be very difficult to live farther than ,say berlin or Madrid to Paris (the popular places are in Spain, Italy, Luxembourg...some even live in Sweden. It is quite possible because pilots have the benefit of what we call RNs which are zero fare-subject-to-load tickets for which you'll only pay taxes and jumpseats are available when flights are full.
Then after you've transferred to a long-haul division, living abroad becomes a viable solution as you're only rostered for three ,max four blocks a month. I know of people who live in Florida, in Montreal, even in Gabon.



Contrail designer
User currently offlineCRGsFuture From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 12 months 7 hours ago) and read 5639 times:

Quoting Wrighbrothers:
Flying schools, mainly across England, however, they have been know to take pilots from America, so if you join the right school, then you have a chance.
But, you need the right to live and work in the United Kingdom, and Europe (I think) freely.

Wrighbrothers

Ok, are there aviation collages in the UK and the Republic?

Quoting Bond007:
Have English people told you that?

No they said I could be a football (soccer) announcer. I even scared the hell out of one when I said "I like that Crystal Palace jersey." He was shocked I even knew that it was a suburb of London.



Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
User currently offlineORDTerminal1 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 12 months 4 hours ago) and read 5573 times:

Pardon my ignorance, but is the JAR similar to the FAA liscense? In addition, how would an American pilot gain one?


717, 727, 732,733, 734, 735, 738, 742, 744, 752, 763, 319, 320, 340, F100
User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 998 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 12 months ago) and read 5467 times:

The JAA license is a lot harder than the FAA license. The ATPL theory is 14 exams, compared to one for the FAA.


raggi



Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5306 times:

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 18):
Ok, are there aviation collages in the UK and the Republic?

The Republic ?, if you mean The Republic of Ireland, I'm not sure, but I know BA don't recruit from any Ireland flying school, BA infact only take pilots from 3 or 4 flying school world wide !, but yes, there are flying collages in England.
Just remember, don't expect to fly for BA, you might have to do with another job within BA or work for another airline, no flying school is dedicated to BA.

Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineORDTerminal1 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5295 times:

and how would someone go about getting a JAR liscense?

Quote:
I even scared the hell out of one when I said "I like that Crystal Palace jersey." He was shocked I even knew that it was a suburb of London.

was he even more shocked when he found out wiggins was going to be benching it for half a year?

audere est facere.



717, 727, 732,733, 734, 735, 738, 742, 744, 752, 763, 319, 320, 340, F100
User currently offlineCRGsFuture From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5255 times:

Quoting ORDTerminal1:
was he even more shocked when he found out wiggins was going to be benching it for half a year?

Haha yes.

Quoting Wrighbrothers:
Just remember, don't expect to fly for BA, you might have to do with another job within BA or work for another airline, no flying school is dedicated to BA.

Now, is this also true with BD? And where does EI get its pilots from?



Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5234 times:

I have a question. For medical reasons I cannot obtain a JAR licence over here but I can in the US. Is it possible for me to train in the US then move over here, base myself at a US airline hub in the UK and then operate out of the UK for AA or CO

Tom


25 BA787 : There is one based in Greece I think that is dedicated to Thomsonfly, BA and GB Airways Tom
26 Post contains links BA787 : The company is Flight Training Europe: Jerez Britannia Airways, British Airways and GB Airways www.flighttrainingeurope.com info@flighttrainingeurope
27 CRGsFuture : It would only happen if you were a longhaul pilot as both almost all American airlines have gotten rid of European hubs. Due to the fact of your rota
28 BA787 : Thank you. I hope its possible, I will live in the states until I become international and then ill try and do what ive said. My dream is to fly for
29 Post contains images Wrighbrothers : Maybe, but BA aren't recruiting from there, GB-Airways might be, BA get the vast majority of their pilots from outside training schools, Oxford colle
30 AirWillie6475 : I don't think it's worth going through all that trouble. Flying is flying, there is no difference where you do it. Do you have a reason why you would
31 Post contains images A340600 : Very debatable . European pilots are better paid with better futures especially pension plan wise, it's a very smart move to fly for them over the US
32 Saab2000 : HMmmmmmmm........ Really? I lived in Europe and flew for a big airline there. Now I live in the US and fly for an airline there. When I flew in Europ
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