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US Airways And The A350XWB  
User currently offlineMah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 509 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8697 times:

I was just wondering if US was still the launch customer for the A350, and if they still plan to buy the -800 series? I think that plane would look amazing in US' colors.

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8658 times:

Right now it's a "paper" airplane. It's anyone's guess who the launch customer will be 6 years from now when it's said to be available. By that time, US Airways will possibly be indisguishable from today. Parker said recently that he will stick with the 350, but that was before the 2012 date was announced. My guess is that as long as AB offers US some sort of a stop gap deal for something like additional 330-200s and/or some 340s (for East Coast-Asia, etc.), they will remain the "launch" customer.

User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8582 times:

I'd be surprised if the new 350 shows up in US's fleet, even in 2012. I don't think US will want anything larger than a 333 for a long time to come, unless they start planning flights from the major west coast cities other than PHX to Asia and Europe. But I don't see that happening either.

But then again, 6 years ago, US Airways had just turned from USAir, their fleet was over 400 planes, they were allied with AA (sorta), and their largest plane was a 762. A lot can change in 6 years.



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User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12514 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8384 times:
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Quoting D L X (Reply 2):
I don't think US will want anything larger than a 333 for a long time to come

Isn't the A350X-800 very comparable in capacity to the A333?



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineAviator27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8296 times:

The US A350 deal was part of a loan package Airbus gave to US Airways to help them transition out of bankruptcy and with their merger with America West Airlines. That is why they are so indifferent to the airplane.

User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8258 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 3):
Isn't the A350X-800 very comparable in capacity to the A333?

A350 XWB-800 = 270 pax in three classes,
A350 XWB-900 = 314 pax in three classes
A350 XWB-1000 = 350 pax in three classes
Range of 8500nm. (basic model)

A330-300 = 335 pax in two classes
A330-300 = 295 pax in three classes
Range of 5650nm

A330-200 = 253 pax in three classes
A330-200 = 293 pax in two classes
Range of 6400nm

Answer: The A350 XWB-800 carries 25 passengers less than the A330-300 but flies 2850nm more. For US the A350-800 would allow them to do PHX-Europe and PHI-Asia. But could also be abused for the East Coast - Europe market...after all some fly 777-200ER East Coast to Europe and it has a range of 7730nm.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7979 times:

There are still 10 A330-200 orders on the books. Look for that order to be moved up....I highly doubt US would pick up any A340s, even as an interim aircraft. I do however believe that more 757-ER will be acquired, along with the possibility of a few used 767-300s. This all depends of course on future international expansion plans. With the price of fuel continuing to skyrocket and tensions now escalating further in the Middle East and North Korea...we'll just have to wait and see.

User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7936 times:

Quoting Centrair (Reply 5):
A350 XWB-800 = 270 pax in three classes,
A350 XWB-900 = 314 pax in three classes
A350 XWB-1000 = 350 pax in three classes
Range of 8500nm. (basic model)

A330-300 = 335 pax in two classes
A330-300 = 295 pax in three classes
Range of 5650nm

A330-200 = 253 pax in three classes
A330-200 = 293 pax in two classes
Range of 6400nm

US Airways fits its 333s with 266 seats in 3 classes. You can't go by the airbus website.



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User currently offlineANNOYEDFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7842 times:

Hopefully they cancel and order the 7E7!!!!


"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7804 times:

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 8):
Hopefully they cancel and order the 7E7!!!!

Or even better the 787! (Just jabbing ya) They didn't order full out though, it was part of BK exit financing. Once they pay Airbus back, they actually can cancel their order. Something tells me that they might actually do that. There have been statements from airbus that they may have some cancelations. I think US is one of them. Though I think the US colors on the A350 will look awsome and on approach to NGO they would look even better.

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
US Airways fits its 333s with 266 seats in 3 classes.

That is even better. Only 4 seat difference based on Airbus' numbers.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7695 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
US Airways fits its 333s with 266 seats in 3 classes. You can't go by the airbus website.

Very true, we have increased seat pitch I believe. However I think they are planning on adding more seats to coach...not sure if it's by shrinking the seat pitch or by removing some Envoy seats.


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7695 times:

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9):
They didn't order full out though, it was part of BK exit financing. Once they pay Airbus back, they actually can cancel their order.

1) US Airways being in chapter 11 is saved by Airbus providing exit financing (in the form of a loan), in return US Airways promises to buy aircraft from Airbus.

2) US Airways leaves chapter 11 (thanks to Airbus exit financing?) and starts to become profitable again, it can now pay back the loan.

3) A. US keeps their promise and orders the aircraft (whenever they are in need of the aircraft).

3) B. US tells Airbus to get lost and buys aircraft from the competition.

I have no clue what the agreement is between A and US, but it does look like US current better situation is (partially) because of Airbus exit financing. If anything, US should be greatfull and return the favor to Airbus. Dont slap the hand that feeds you, who knows it might need to feed you again some day...



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User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12514 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7624 times:
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Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
US Airways fits its 333s with 266 seats in 3 classes. You can't go by the airbus website.

Regardless, using Airbus's seat numbers the planes are close enough.

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 4):
That is why they are so indifferent to the airplane.

 confused  They ordered the "old" A350 and said they'd review when they saw the new one. They also said they were not considering the 787. I'd say if there's any indifference, it's towards the 787.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9):
They didn't order full out though, it was part of BK exit financing.

It's as "full out" as any order on Airbus's or Boeing's books:
http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...items/11_29_05_USAirways_A350.html



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineDrupyUSE From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7562 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
US Airways fits its 333s with 266 seats in 3 classes. You can't go by the airbus website.

We actually operate in a two class configuration (Envoy & Coach)on the A333. Not sure where you got your three class facts.?


User currently offlineWorldXplorer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7531 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 11):
Dont slap the hand that feeds you, who knows it might need to feed you again some day...

I agree with that statement Manni. I think that is exactly the scenario here.

Let's take a look at some numbers. The US A330 have an average age of 5.9 years. In 2012, when the A350 enters into service that be roughly 12 years or even less if they do take delivery of any A330's in the meantime. If we use history as a guide, US has an average age of 17 years for their fleet of 767's. So that shows us that they are not of the philosophy of turning over their fleet in an SQ type manner. So although US may be planning to replace their A330's with A350's, I doubt it. So all of this info begs the question, does US see that much expansion possible from the merger with HP? They must, or at least their hoping.

If we put ourselves in the shoes of US we can see they had no other choice but to buy the A350 IF they are adopting the "Dont slap the hand that feeds you" philosophy. Take a look at A's product catalog from US Airways perspective and see what they had to choose from:

- A300/A310 - yesterdays news

- A320 Family - The us legacies are having an epiphany that international routes are where the money is. The int'l destinations that the A32X can serve for US are currently fairly well covered. And let us not forget that US still has A320's and A321's on order.

- A330 - The A350 was already being touted as the next big thing and US has 10 on order still. Why order more of these?

- A340 - Without already being the US fleet and the A350 on the horizon, it would have made no sense for US to pick up any A340's.

- A380 - I do not think anyone here thinks US has routes that necessitate the A380.

- A350 - This is the only logical choice for US from the Airbus product catalog.

Airbus does them favor. US reciprocates by buying Airbus jets. The best bet for US was and still is the A350. Whether or not they can expand enough to fill those birds has yet to be seen, but it will be an interesting situation to watch.

Just my   

WorldXplorer

[Edited 2006-07-18 17:42:33]

User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7522 times:

Quoting DrupyUSE (Reply 13):
We actually operate in a two class configuration (Envoy & Coach)on the A333. Not sure where you got your three class facts.?

Yes that's how it's marketed, since we no longer sell the First Class seats in the front of the cabin as First Class. They just included them in the new upgrade program...as lay-flat seats for a premium.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7062 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7345 times:

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 8):
Hopefully they cancel and order the 7E7!!!!



Quoting Centrair (Reply 9):
Or even better the 787! (Just jabbing ya) They didn't order full out though, it was part of BK exit financing. Once they pay Airbus back, they actually can cancel their order. Something tells me that they might actually do that. There have been statements from airbus that they may have some cancelations. I think US is one of them. Though I think the US colors on the A350 will look awsome and on approach to NGO they would look even better.



Quoting Manni (Reply 11):
US should be greatfull and return the favor to Airbus. Dont slap the hand that feeds you, who knows it might need to feed you again some day...

Manni said it right and there is nothing much to add.
Indeed US can be thankful to Airbus that they were giving them a loan.
Of course you have to consider it was a self-serving deal for Airbus and they had no real choice but doing so. If US would have gone bankrupt there would have been plenty of used A319, A320 and A321 as well as some A330 around that would have ruined the market price for Airbus. They also have now a loyal customer in the US that buys their products - which is an important factor if you know that two other major carriers have a "gentleman agreement" with Boeing as their house-supplier.

@ANNOYEDFA
I really can not agree with you here. This has nothing to do that I am pro-Airbus or Anti Boeing which I am definitely not, if you read my posts here you know that I am one of the guys who hope for a big Boeing order from Lufthansa. It has to do with variety on our airports. I am not a spotter but when I am at the airport and I have seen the twentieth A32x family aircraft landing I am happy for every 737 I see and the other way around. Okay the A350 and 787 are very identical looking but seeing another aircraft once in a while would be good thing. Only Boeings or Airbuses would be boring airports.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineKYAir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7223 times:

US has already paid back the Airbus exit financing loan. That's old news, come on guys!

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....l-newsArticle&ID=841983&highlight=

US should accelerate the delivery of the 10 332s on order and completely redo the 762 interiors. US would also be wise to see what the 350 has become, then decide between it and the 787 for long range fleet planning. The 332s, 333s and 762s will suffice for the next few years.



Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12514 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7204 times:
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Quoting KYAir (Reply 17):
US has already paid back the Airbus exit financing loan.

I thought they had, but I couldn't find anything when I looked earlier.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7178 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 16):
They also have now a loyal customer in the US that buys their products - which is an important factor if you know that two other major carriers have a "gentleman agreement" with Boeing as their house-supplier.

Of course US had signed a deal with Airbus prior to Boeing's signing deals with DL and AA.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7121 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 11):
If anything, US should be greatfull and return the favor to Airbus. Dont slap the hand that feeds you, who knows it might need to feed you again some day...

Airbus made the loan to protect its interests as well......aside from helping out US, Airbus wanted to be very sure that all of those A32X airplanes operated by both US and HP would stay in the air and not end up parked in the desert. If US would have failed, all of those nearly new A32X airplanes would have ended up in the second hand market and essentially killed A32X demand in the coming years. There are two sides to every story....the loan was not a favor and no one needs to be grateful, Airbus and US are not friends, they do business together.

As for the A350 order, US/HP will take their time and determine whether the new-new A350 makes sense for them in the coming years. The A350 was always considered a growth airplane (say routes from PHX to Europe or PHL to Asia) and US/HP must re-examine what is on offer and decide if its the airplane that they want or need. Only then will we hear a decision.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7001 times:

The loan has, in fact, been fully repaid.

N


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6962 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 21):
The loan has, in fact, been fully repaid.

Did not know this. Thanks!

Leahy said he expected a couple of cancellations during the conference on Monday, but I seriously doubt that US would be one of them. They are happy with the A-330 and will wait for the new bird.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6941 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 22):
but I seriously doubt that US would be one of them. They are happy with the A-330 and will wait for the new bird.

US is happy with their A333s and will also be happy with their to-be-delivered A332s.......but they very well could be one of the customers that will back out of their commitment to the A350; US/HP management has already said that they will review their commitment to the A350 only after its clear what Airbus has on offer. US many not need or want the wide-sized A350 since its a bigger airplane: the A350s were all about expansion and new routes (as mentioned above). When it comes to US, I dont think that they delay is a big deal, its the airplane itself.....US now must re-determine if the wide A350 is the right airplane for their network, if it is, the order will go forward, if its not, there will be a cancellation. And I dont think that the fully repaid loan is going to influence US/HP's decision on the matter.


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8673 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6921 times:

I heard from a US pilot and flight attendant that the following is being done:

A) more 757's acquired and more converted to ETOPS standard (3 ain't gonna do it for east-euro ops)

B) 767's will get new interiors

C) they will take delivery of 332's in a year and a half

D) in addition to the 332's being delivered, A321 and A320 ac will be delivered to free up 757 for europe runs.

I fly US 6 times a year. I hear the news and relay it to you guys.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
25 Gigneil : While I give no stock to pilot, flight attendant, or ramp rat rumors, those things all line up with what I've heard as well. Sensible actions, in my o
26 Dutchjet : There is also a serious rumor out there that US may surprise everyone and order some 737-900ERs for longer routes out of PHX and LAS.....if more 757s
27 MCOflyer : You have 3 757 doing euro routes. Wonder if one goes tech? Thats why I've herd that US is converting more 757's to ETOPS standards. Can someone who wo
28 Gigneil : The 737-900ER brings the 739 up to the performance of an A321.... its still not a 757. N
29 MCOflyer : If US gets the 739ER I will upgrade to gold status on US. I hope they do. What airbus narrow body seats this many pax? NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go US an
30 Gigneil : Um the A321? N
31 Post contains links KYAir : Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 27): Thats why I've herd that US is converting more 757's to ETOPS standards. I haven't heard that US is converting 757s, only
32 A330323X : US is converting 3 of its B757-2B7s to ETOPS for next summer. 1/3 of the US birds are ex-Eastern B757-225s that are the oldest ones in existance. 2/3
33 KYAir : A330323X: Thanks. I stand corrected on two counts.
34 PlanesNTrains : If you have posted on this before, I apologize, but what is your take on a potential 739ER order? From an outsiders perspective it would seem to go a
35 Dw747400 : I'd argue that, given the changes in the A350 Airbus is no longer providing what US signed for, hence, if anything, they (Airbus) have already broken
36 D L X : It used to be First class, Envoy class and coach class. Now, it's Envoy class and coach class, but if I'm not mistaken, the first row of Envoy on the
37 Post contains images Riyadhnurse : New to the forum,so haven't read previous discussions re:A380. 1. Has she visited the states yet,and dazzled the folks at JFK, LAX, ORD etc ? 2. Only
38 Centrair : Hmmm... That would be an interesting move. That would open PHX to Europe and Asia and PHL, PIT & CLT to Asia (with some restrictions). Even though th
39 Ballsdeep : I thought I read somewhere during one of Doug Parker's town hall speeches that US would not be expanding internationally from PHX for at least a few y
40 Steeler83 : I thought it was the other way around; they already had the 332 and were waiting for the A333. The last time I checked the US website and looked up t
41 CentPIT : Your right, if anyone knew the future of Pittsburgh, we wouldn't have to make predictions!!
42 Post contains images Steeler83 : But it sure doesn't hurt to make these predictions. Let's all speak our optimism for this town, as well as for the progress of the A350 and the other
43 CentPIT : Get out of that town!
44 Post contains images Stitch : While I believe the near-term future for US remains with the A330 family, the A350 family makes perfect sense for them, whether or not they are "requi
45 Post contains images Steeler83 : You want me to come back to PIT? I might consider it... maybe... eventually... possibly... IF Allegheny County Department of Economic Development or
46 Gregg : US may have a Boeing surprise coming. 739er for LAS, PHX take off. They are putting more 757 to Europe, so that means they aren't banking on cargo rev
47 Revelation : I don't know - from what I can tell, US would be happier with a plane smaller than the A350XWB-800, i.e. the 787-8, but time will tell...
48 LTU932 : Does US already have those former TZ 757 in service? Since those already have ETOPS 138, they are perfect for PHL-Europe flights. That being said, I
49 Karan69 : How many aircraft does US still have on order, i only know about the 10 x A330-200s 20 x A350s [yet to be re-confirmed] How many narrowbodies still on
50 Post contains links KYAir : Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 40): I thought it was the other way around; they already had the 332 and were waiting for the A333. The last time I checked t
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