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AA Ends BOS-MCO; BOS-MAN/CDG Gone Too?  
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7057 times:

American Airlines is ending service between Boston and Orlando. The daily 757 service ends on 13 December 2006, leaving Miami as the only Florida city AA serves from Boston, with six daily 757 flights.

In addition, despite the fact that AA loaded their 2007 summer European routes a month ago (JFK-FCO, ORD-GLA, etc.), BOS-MAN and BOS-CDG are nowhere to be seen. While April 2007 is still a good way away, European routes are almost always uplodaed immediately, because customers tend to book in high advance for European vacations, especially to places like Paris. The ending of BOS-CDG will not surprise me, the route has never been a stellar performer and the 763 is more welcome elsewhere, but I would be shocked to see BOS-MAN end. I just want to emphasis that the fact they are not bookable supports that they are being suspended (and, for the most part, confirms that they are being evaluated), but certainly does not confirm they are discontinued. Anybody know more?

[Edited 2006-07-18 05:38:38]


a.
50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNikonDFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7012 times:

With the exTW 757's leaving the fleet, there is going to be a lot of discontinued routes. A lot of point to points. With high capacity routes like DFW-MCO/LAS, which are currently served with the exTW 757's, AA will be moving AA 757's into these markets, which have to come from another route.

User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2982 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6992 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
American Airlines is ending service between Boston and Orlando. The daily 757 service ends on 13 December 2006, leaving Miami as the only Florida city AA serves from Boston, with six daily 757 flights.

MIA is the only city left? I thought FLL also had service.

IIRC, FLL, MCO and TPA all had multiple frequencies just a few years ago. It seems the only airlines left competing for the valuable BOS-Florida markets are DL and B6.

How the times change...

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6973 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 2):
IIRC, FLL, MCO and TPA all had multiple frequencies just a few years ago. It seems the only airlines left competing for the valuable BOS-Florida markets are DL and B6.

With B6 and DL constantly duking it out in Northeast-Florida routes, maybe AA decided that this was simply not a fight worth fighting. Just not a whole lot of money to be made on routes like that.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6973 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 2):
MIA is the only city left? I thought FLL also had service.

FLL-BOS ended April 2004.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 2):

IIRC, FLL, MCO and TPA all had multiple frequencies just a few years ago. It seems the only airlines left competing for the valuable BOS-Florida markets are DL and B6.

PBI had service too until last year.

Sad to see AA leave, but the market isn't profitable, so they might as well leave it to jetBlue and Delta. It is good to see them retreat for markets like BOS-MCO, although it may upset some loyal flyers.



a.
User currently offlineBALAX From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6936 times:

I doubt AA won't bring back BOS-MAN, look how long it took them to upload LAX-SJO and they are still showing MIA-MAN on their website, even though the flight will not operate. I woulnd't be shocked to see BOS-CDG go to a 757 , could be done easily, and it's not a horrid performer either. JFK-CDG gets 2x daily even in the winter, why? me no se.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6884 times:

I'd give it another week or two, I've noticed that AA has been uploading their schedule more in bits and pieces, unlike in the past when they used to do mass-uploads for an entire season at once.

I would venture to say, they are probably still working on their 763, and 757 ETOPS schedule for now.


User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1374 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6861 times:

I would be absolutely shocked not to see BOS-MAN back. This flight has been everything AA has asked of it and then some. Loads have been stellar, although I have no idea about yields. To me, it has been everything the MIA-MAN route was not..

If AA can't make the 757 work on a BOS-MAN routing, they may as well forget about any future trans-atlantic endeavors involving the 757...


User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6843 times:

If it is true, AA canceling both MAN and CDG, this will be a bit of a surprise and a set back for BOS which is targeted to have its largest year ever in terms of passengers. Every year since 2001 BOS has seen solid gains not only in domestic passengers, but passenger numbers to Europe and the Middle East contrinue to climb. AF seems to have no problem making BOS work with year round daily service and sesonal double daily service, so why can't AA work with its seasonal service? The bad thing for BOS is that all of their international flights have to survive on O&D traffic, they don't have the benefit of for example MIA, which pulls a lot of traffic from other cities to fill their flights to Europe and other places like MSP, DTW, PIT, IAD, etc.

AA continues to cut BOS, I am surprised MCO is gone and I was surprised they did not bring back BOS-MSY.

I guess as long as they keep the 13 weekly flights to LHR and the SJU flights, BOS will be ok.


I just checked the AA website and it mentioned BOS-MCO under their seasonal flights. I know in the winter time they would run an MD-80 on the route and during the Spring and Summer a 752.

[Edited 2006-07-18 06:28:30]

User currently offlineArtieFufkin From United States of America, joined May 2006, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6821 times:

You got to remember AF has their hub on the other end of that BOS flight. That's a huge advantage with all those CDG spokes.

User currently offlineBALAX From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6821 times:

Let's not jump the gun here. Could simply be that AA schedules are not finalized yet. With the announcement of 2nd quarter results coming up, some good news might come with that as well.

User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6753 times:

AA has cut some service from MCO in the past few years as well. I flew JFK-MCO in 2003 on a 757 and that has since been cut. A few frequencies to LAX have been cut too. But BOS loosing their only daily flight is a surprise.

Tommy in EWR/LAX.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6612 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 6):
I'd give it another week or two, I've noticed that AA has been uploading their schedule more in bits and pieces, unlike in the past when they used to do mass-uploads for an entire season at once.

The thing is, it has more than a month since the other route were uploaded.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 8):
AF seems to have no problem making BOS work with year round daily service and sesonal double daily service, so why can't AA work with its seasonal service?

AF has a hub on the otherside.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 8):
f for example MIA, which pulls a lot of traffic from other cities to fill their flights to Europe

Really? Four out of every five AA passengers on MIA-MAD/CDG/LHR end or begin their trip in Miami. I'd love to know how many people you think are flying out of the way routings like SDF-LHR, RDU-CDG, and IND-MAD. And since South and Central Americans needs Visas to transfer in the US, AA has seen their connecting LatAm-Europe traffic cut significantly, and perfers to route LatAm-Europe passengers through Dallas, as it helps fill up the Dallas flights and frees up space at MIA/JFK for local passengers. Nearly 60% of AA's MIA passengers begin or end their trip in Miami, significantly high for a hub of its size.

Quoting BALAX (Reply 10):
Let's not jump the gun here. Could simply be that AA schedules are not finalized yet. With the announcement of 2nd quarter results coming up, some good news might come with that as well.

I agree, the schedule has definitley not been finalized, but the fact they have not been uplodaed does signify something. It pretty much signifies the routes are under review. It doesn't mean they have suspended, but AA is looking to see what to do. I wouldn't be surprised to see BOS-CDG cut. I would be surprised to see BOS-MAN cut.

[Edited 2006-07-18 08:59:26]


a.
User currently offlineBALAX From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6565 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
I wouldn't be surprised to see BOS-CDG cut. I would be surprised to see BOS-MAN cut

Wasn't AA thinking of suspending the CDG route a couple years ago and then uploaded a bit late into the season? But just like DFW-KIX is "supposedly" under review, it's still bookable throughout 2007. Tomorrow it could be gone. The next day it may be back. Does JFK-CDG justify 2 flights in the winter BTW? Is there enough premium demand?


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6544 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
I'd love to know how many people you think are flying out of the way routings like SDF-LHR, RDU-CDG, and IND-MAD.

I think RDU-CDG average about 175 daily pax.. or something similar to that per RDUAA...



Aiming High and going far..
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6505 times:

Quoting BALAX (Reply 13):
Wasn't AA thinking of suspending the CDG route a couple years ago and then uploaded a bit late into the season?

Yes, last year in fact, it was uploaded late, though it was bookable by mid-summer.

Quoting BALAX (Reply 13):
But just like DFW-KIX is "supposedly" under review, it's still bookable throughout 2007.

DFW-KIX is not a seasonal route.

Quoting BALAX (Reply 13):
Does JFK-CDG justify 2 flights in the winter BTW? Is there enough premium demand?

Yes. A handful of markets have good premium demand to Paris from the US - NYC (it's NYC), Washington (government traffic), Houston (oil traffic going to Africa), and Miami ("jet set" traffic between November and April).

JFK-CDG has always been a strong performer for AA year-round, along with Miami-Paris. Dallas-Paris does very well, but it requires it's very strong performance in the summer to offset the fact it performers weaker during the winter. Chicago-Paris is the weaker of those four, largely due to compeitition on the route and the fact that for some reason Chicago-Paris isn't as big a market as one would assume (and I really don't understand why. Even AF doesn't do so hot out of O'Hare).

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 14):

I think RDU-CDG average about 175 daily pax.. or something similar to that per RDUAA...

Including people connecting beyond in Paris, maybe. O&D? I doubt it is that high.

[Edited 2006-07-18 10:13:55]


a.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6499 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
Including people connecting beyond in Paris, maybe. O&D? I doubt it is that high.

It's O&D. It truely is around that figure, which isn't really high but good for a mid-tier airport, I guess. Frankfurt was around the 240 daily pax range. It was in a news article.. I could try to find it online if you would like.

***Correction***
It was high. Per Triangle Business Journal, on page 2.. Paris (the City of Lights) draws about 150 daily pax, while FRA draws about 270 daily pax. My bad..

[Edited 2006-07-18 10:17:18]


Aiming High and going far..
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6487 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 16):

It's O&D. It truely is around that figure, which isn't really high but good for a mid-tier airport, I guess. Frankfurt was around the 240 daily pax range. It was in a news article.. I could try to find it online if you would like.

There is this one article that says that a Paris flight could draw 150 people per day. It doesn't say that it the daily O&D:

http://triangle.bizjournals.com/tria...ries/2005/05/09/story3.html?page=2



a.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6468 times:

Im sure it's the average if it say 150 people each way per day.. so would that be 300 pax if it states EACH way? weird wording..


Aiming High and going far..
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6458 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 18):
Im sure it's the average if it say 150 people each way per day.. so would that be 300 pax if it states EACH way? weird wording..

Yes, but that is how many people they could get on the plane. That includes people going beyond Paris, which is a huge European hub. Getting 300 people on a daily RDU-CDG flight is not entirely unplausable consdering probably 75% will be connceting.



a.
User currently offlineDFW13L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6453 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 14):
I think RDU-CDG average about 175 daily pax.. or something similar to that per RDUAA...

Funny. In either the Dallas Morning News or Fort Worth Star Telegram (I forget which) a couple months ago they published the O/D traffic to international cities, as part of a story about the new International Terminal D at DFW. In there, I remember that DFW-CDG was about 75 a day. Now LGW and FRA were around 270ish (totally based off a foggy memory). I just thought the DFW CDG was low, and compared to RDU, DFW has less than half.

I wonder what the IAH CDG is, since they have CO and AF flights.


User currently offlineFlpuck6 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2123 posts, RR: 29
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6191 times:

If I remember correctly (and if I read correctly, no one has mentioned it) the AA BOS-CDG route has become seasonal for the past 2 years operating only during the summer.

Perhaps the MAN flight is going seasonal as well ?



Bonjour Chef!
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6071 times:

Quoting Flpuck6 (Reply 21):
Perhaps the MAN flight is going seasonal as well ?

It always has been - in winter it would 'swap' with the MIA flight.



No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6006 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 14):
think RDU-CDG average about 175 daily pax.. or something similar to that per RDUAA...

Well, then I have to know how many daily pax are traveling PIT-FRA and PIT-LGW.



Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
User currently offlineNateDAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5688 times:

Quoting DFW13L (Reply 20):
Funny. In either the Dallas Morning News or Fort Worth Star Telegram (I forget which) a couple months ago they published the O/D traffic to international cities, as part of a story about the new International Terminal D at DFW. In there, I remember that DFW-CDG was about 75 a day. Now LGW and FRA were around 270ish (totally based off a foggy memory). I just thought the DFW CDG was low, and compared to RDU, DFW has less than half.



Quote:
THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS
May 18, 2006 Thursday
FIRST EDITION

SECTION: BUSINESS; Pg. 3D

LENGTH: 58 words

HEADLINE: TOP INTERNATIONAL MARKETS FOR D/FW

BODY:


Location Passengers

1. Cancún, Mexico 302

2. London 279

3. Toronto 231

4. Mexico City 207

5. Vancouver, British Columbia 114

6. Frankfurt 102

7. Montreal 88

8. Los Cabos, Mexico 75 9. Paris 74

10. Puerto Vallarta, Mexico 73

Passengers per day each way, excluding connecting passengers, for the year ended February 2006.

SOURCES: D/FW Airport; Sabre Consulting



Set Love Free
25 MAH4546 : That says absolutely nothing about O&D figures. O&D on Raleigh-Paris is probably closer to 40 people per day. -Frankfurt is probably maybe a dozen mo
26 B752OS : I would call more than 40% a large amount of passengers. It was not an insult on MIA, it was a simple statement. MIA has the size operation it has in
27 MAH4546 : It actually doesn't really help fill their LatAm flights to a huge extent, considering that many domestic flights arrive in the morning and most LatA
28 BigGSFO : With the TWA 757's going away next year, does anyone forsee AA bringing back the MD80's to MIA? The reason being is that the 738's can easily replace
29 B752OS : You don't think that more than 40% is not a lot of people? More tha 2 out of 5 people is not a lot? How about you be exact, you say nearly 60% is O&D
30 Zone1 : Could we see those TW 757s back in BOS parked at terminal E in DL colors?
31 MAH4546 : No, it is not. Especially considering that the average for a large hub is around 65% connecting. AA's MIA hub has one of the highest (if not the high
32 MAH4546 : No. The 738s are based in Miami because they can easily rotate between domestic routes and South America/Caribbean runs. The MD80s can't, and the add
33 B752OS : I never ignored the fact that most hubs operate at less than 40%, the percent of O&D at other hubs has nothing to do with what I was talking about. B
34 MAH4546 : That's fine. Then under that logic, where you are not associating numbers within context and instead only by raw value, $10 is nothing to someone in
35 Laxintl : Well lets get the facts on the table regarding AA MIA. Data is for the year of 2004 the source being Aviation Daily. Hub Profile Avg daily departures:
36 B752OS : That's a pretty poor example MAH. How can the value of money to one person be likened to the percentage of O&D passengers at one airport and how it s
37 MAH4546 : It isn't a poor example, it is called an analogy. Very simple to follow actually, just use your logic. We'll just have to, like you said, agree to di
38 Post contains links HighFlyer9790 : Correct. since no one has brought it up, i presume the 2x daily AA 777 BOS-LHR will continue to operate? Also, since we are on the topic of AA and BO
39 TinPusher007 : I would think so...AA seems incredibly bullish on LHR service.
40 B752OS : Laxintl, where did you get those facts; that's great. I am wodnering if you can find out info like that for other airports, I would love to see DFW an
41 SESGDL : Me as well. Do you also have the info for airlines like Delta and United at their hubs? Jeremy
42 Post contains images Laxintl : Data is available pretty much on every hub. Just requires lots of typing Anyways here is AA DFW hub profile for 2005, and ORD for 2004. Avg daily dep
43 ArtieFufkin : And when you look at that, think in terms of stage lenth because distance really distorts the yields. So it's not easy to compare.
44 B752OS : Thank you so much Laxintl, I really appreciate it. I am wonder where you found the data so I can look up even more airports. Thanks.
45 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ditto.. .. what's important is that those are 2004 numbers for ORD, and AA now has record load factors..so that is looking good.. While I'm not surpr
46 MAH4546 : ORD-MAN makes up the trio of AA's most profitable trans-Atlantic routes, along with DFW-ZRH and MIA-LHR. (On a per-flight basis; obviously the JFK-LH
47 Laxintl : Thanks glad to participate. I'm sure the data can be dug up from reams of DOT stats. Instead I took a small portion of material Aviation Daily compil
48 BHMNONREV : That is not surprising, MAN-ORD is the only flight I have been bumped off of as a non-rev. In fact, it has happened to me twice, and with a close to
49 DFW13L : Just curious, if DFW-ZRH is so successful, and as a non-rev I've noticed that it is always full. Why wouldn't they put a 777 back on it like it was a
50 MAH4546 : Well, as you said, they don't have the aircraft. Also, a route being successful can just as often have to do with using the right equipment. I doubt
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