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El Al May End YYZ Service  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5807 times:

El Al is considering ending all service to Toronto, citing the destination unprofitable. They would like to sign a cooperation agreement with Air Canada on the route. Article:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3276579,00.html

This would likely free up planes to increase MIA service and make O'Hare non-stop.


a.
73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2692 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5799 times:

What would this do to their current LAX-YYZ-TLV service? Would LAX go nonstop (is that even feasible?), or would that end up getting the boot as well?

[Edited 2006-07-18 05:53:13]

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5775 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 1):
What would this do to their current LAX-YYZ-TLV service? Would LAX go nonstop (is that even feasible?), or would that end up getting the boot as well?

LAX-TLV becomes non-stop in two weeks. In the fall, however, O'Hare will stop in Toronto instead of Newark.



a.
User currently offlineORDRyan28 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 988 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5665 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
LAX-TLV becomes non-stop in two weeks. In the fall, however, O'Hare will stop in Toronto instead of Newark.

What aircraft are they most likely going to send LAX-TLV? Also, if LY does cancel the TLV-YYZ route, would LY still route TLV-EWR-ORD-EWR-TLV route for a while, or would they make TLV-ORD nonstop immediately afterwards?? What aircraft would make this route...a 762??

-Ryan



Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5596 times:

Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 3):

What aircraft are they most likely going to send LAX-TLV? Also, if LY does cancel the TLV-YYZ route, would LY still route TLV-EWR-ORD-EWR-TLV route for a while, or would they make TLV-ORD nonstop immediately afterwards?? What aircraft would make this route...a 762??

LAX-TLV will be a 772.

ORD would either route through EWR or go non-stop. The 762s, which already fly MIA-TLV, can do ORD-TLV easily.



a.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26605 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5582 times:

Quoting ORDRyan28 (Reply 3):
What aircraft are they most likely going to send LAX-TLV? Also, if LY does cancel the TLV-YYZ route, would LY still route TLV-EWR-ORD-EWR-TLV route for a while, or would they make TLV-ORD nonstop immediately afterwards?? What aircraft would make this route...a 762??

A 762ER cannot make LAX-TLV if that is what you are asking. As far as TLV-ORD goes, the flight is 300nm farther than TLV-YYZ but I believe LY uses high gross weight 762ERs, so the aircraft should be capable.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5576 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
As far as TLV-ORD goes, the flight is 300nm farther than TLV-YYZ but I believe LY uses high gross weight 762ERs, so the aircraft should be capable.

It certainly is. MIA-TLV is a 762ER and takes on minimal weight restrictions.



a.
User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5524 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
As far as TLV-ORD goes, the flight is 300nm farther than TLV-YYZ but I believe LY uses high gross weight 762ERs, so the aircraft should be capable

LY had nonstop TLV - ORD in the past, and had no troubles opertaing it.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26605 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5501 times:

Quoting Amirs (Reply 7):
LY had nonstop TLV - ORD in the past, and had no troubles opertaing it.

With what aircraft? I was pointing out that the 762ER as flown by LY should make the route, not doubting that it could. Read the post better.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLnglive1011yyz From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 1608 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5376 times:

Once again, the high price of landing at YYZ kills a service to Toronto.

The GTAA needs to start re-thinking their overpriced charges for allowing planes to land in Toronto..

Toronto is *not* New York. Toronto is *not* LAX. Toronto is *not* a world class city like their leaders would like you to believe..

The GTAA are way off the mark with their landing fees, and this is one of those moments where an axe swung, and El Al had their heads up too high..

Keeping the airline profittable is the key to success, and I applaud El Al for taking action, SHOULD they decide to do it..

Perhaps more people should follow suit.. if i were YHM, i'd be lobbying SSV, TS, Westjet, everyone.. I'd let them land for $1. Just to prove a point.

1011yyz



Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3116 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5368 times:

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 9):
Once again, the high price of landing at YYZ kills a service to Toronto.

What really is the justification for the high fees in YYZ? How do the fees in YYZ compare with other Canadian airports like YUL and YVR...?


User currently offlineMah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5343 times:

I think a PHL route would be more profitable than a MIA route, due to Philly's large Jewish population. Any thoughts?

User currently offlineJoeyby From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5247 times:

i was waiting for this to happen, about time elal switched from the 767 to the newer 777, saves costs plus elal recently finalised the order for 2 more 777s so the 767s are now workin the lhr tlv route

for such a long journey u need PTVS!!!


User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1435 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5236 times:

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 9):
The GTAA needs to start re-thinking their overpriced charges for allowing planes to land in Toronto..

Come on Mike, no doubt that the fees at YYZ are steep and that is partly due to the high rent that the Feds charge YYZ which the GTAA passes on to the airlines. While the Cdn. Govt. reduced substantially the rents of all the other major airports in the country last year, especially YVR they barely moved on the rent charged to YYZ. The joker currently in the PMO is not going to do anything to change it anytime soon.
It would be a shame to lose LY but don't forget what YYZ has gained in since last year: AI, EY, AM, and now CX Cargo.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 9):
Toronto is *not* New York. Toronto is *not* LAX. Toronto is *not* a world class city like their leaders would like you to believe..

As far as being a "world class city"... I strongly disagree with your statement.
According to Wikipedia world class city means "A global city and world city, or world-class city, is a city that has a direct and tangible effect on global affairs through socioeconomic, cultural, and/or political means."

While Toronto is not in the same league as NYC, London, or Hong Kong, it has all the financial, cultural, demographic qualities to put it in the same group with Chicago, Sydney, Frankfurt, Los Angeles etc.

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Quoting Amirs (Reply 7):
LY had nonstop TLV - ORD in the past, and had no troubles opertaing it.

With what aircraft? I was pointing out that the 762ER as flown by LY should make the route, not doubting that it could. Read the post better.

on 762, I was actually agreeing with you.


User currently offlineYULYMX From Canada, joined May 2006, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5165 times:

EL Al use to come To YUL...

Toronto Not even #1 world class city in Canada... (Montréal and Vancouver got more flavors)

Toronto would never be as classy as Montréal even if they try...  

[Edited 2006-07-18 16:57:55]

User currently offlineCruiser From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1001 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5157 times:

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 13):
Come on Mike, no doubt that the fees at YYZ are steep and that is partly due to the high rent that the Feds charge YYZ which the GTAA passes on to the airlines. While the Cdn. Govt. reduced substantially the rents of all the other major airports in the country last year, especially YVR they barely moved on the rent charged to YYZ. The joker currently in the PMO is not going to do anything to change it anytime soon.

I will just add to this that the GTAA charges an all-in fee. I was doing some investigating over the past few days and the landing fees at YYC or YVR may not seem that high, but then there are all kinds of other fees added such as if the aircraft hooks up to the GPU, common-use fees, if a passenger goes through FIS, etc.

Check them out...
Vancouver:
http://www.yvr.ca/pdf/business/tariff/tariff_january2006.pdf

Calgary:
http://www.calgaryairport.com/fts/getfile.cfm?fid=5426

Toronto:
http://www.gtaa.com/Index.aspx?Sid=N...ode5.2/Node5.2.1/Node5.2.1.1&Tpl=1

So yes, it does look really bad when they say that YYZ has high landing fees, but it is not representing the true picture. Air Canada would be complaining a lot more if it truly was costing them an arm and a leg.

Also, I know that many people could not see how an airline could run charging $1 per flight (i.e. Jetsgo), and I believe that many would agree that you could not provide adequate services to an aircraft if you just charged a landing fee of $1...unless you nickel and dimed for everything else. So in reality...are you saving that much and ultimately, are the passengers willing to go to a no frills airport to save a few dollars? I just don't think so...

James



Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
User currently offlineSTEELHEAD From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5113 times:

Everybody is complaining about this, but i don't see any action by the airlines - for example switching flights to another airport in southern ontario.
YHM (Hamilton) or YXU (London/Ont.).

YHM is much closer to the Niagara Falls - on of the main attractions here. May be the airport must change marketing to the world - for example
"Hamilton/Niagara Region International ".

Looking to Florida it seems to be no problem at all for the britsh tour operators
to fly their pax to Sanford instead of Orlando International.

I can see this especiallialy for all flights with mostly "non business" pax.

May be this will make the people at YYZ think a little bit more about their fees.

What do you think about this ?


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2687 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5096 times:

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 11):
I think a PHL route would be more profitable than a MIA route, due to Philly's large Jewish population. Any thoughts?

Have you been to South Florida in the past few decades? It's commonly referred to as the 6th borough of New York City, and we all know that NYC has the largest Jewish population in the United States.

Sad about the possibility of YYZ losing TLV service on LY. I thought that ORD was the least profitable station in North America? If so, why would they drop YYZ if it were more profitable than Chicago? Hopefully this will not come to fruition, as variability is a fun thing for spotters. Airlines like LY are not so common in North America, but if they aren't making money they have to take effective action. Good luck to LY.


User currently offlineKrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5077 times:

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 9):
The GTAA needs to start re-thinking their overpriced charges for allowing planes to land in Toronto..

and what? go bankrupt? The GTAA is a non-profit organization that is being charged abnormally high rent from the federal government. The rapid revitalization of GTAA surly plays a part in the high landing fee as well but the main culprit is Ottawa.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 9):
Toronto is *not* New York. Toronto is *not* LAX. Toronto is *not* a world class city like their leaders would like you to believe..

The GTA is the 5th largest metropolitan area in North America and is a world class city.

KrisYYZ


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4932 times:

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 11):
I think a PHL route would be more profitable than a MIA route, due to Philly's large Jewish population. Any thoughts?

Dude are you kidding? Miami has the second largest Jewish community in the world, and the second largest Israeli diaspora in the world. The Jewish community in Miami is nearly three times that of Philadelphia's, and more importantly. the Israeli community and Miami's Israeli business ties are far. far larger/stronger than Philadelphia's. As long as El Al is flying to Newark, they aren't going to be flying to Philadelphia. I do think there is potential for a Philadelphia-Tel Aviv route, but in no way, shape, or form would it be more successful than a Miami-Tel Aviv flight.



a.
User currently offlineORDTerminal1 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4912 times:

Anyone know how long EL AL has been in Chicago for?

And if the new routing was ORD-YYZ-TLV, would it be possible to buy tickets for ORD-YYZ?



717, 727, 732,733, 734, 735, 738, 742, 744, 752, 763, 319, 320, 340, F100
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4882 times:

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 11):
I think a PHL route would be more profitable than a MIA route, due to Philly's large Jewish population. Any thoughts?

Reply 20 covered it well!

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
Miami has the second largest Jewish community in the world,

Outside of Israel of course.

And slightly off-topic, but what would you call the center of Miami's Jewish Community? The Upper West Side of Miami hehe. It's not the same as it was forty years ago where Wolfies was is it?


User currently offlineJayce From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4864 times:

As much as I'm usually in favour of bashing Toronto, they are getting screwed on this one. Ottawa charges them extremely high rent and they have no other choice but to pass that on to the airlines.

Obviously the people who live in Toronto think it's a world class city. Heck, if I lived in Saskatoon, I'd be pretty sure it was also a world class city.  yes 

Let's hope AC helps out with this one. Though I suspect they would be pretty happy to have YYZ-TLV all to themselves.



"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7592 posts, RR: 42
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4768 times:

Quoting ORDTerminal1 (Reply 21):
if the new routing was ORD-YYZ-TLV, would it be possible to buy tickets for ORD-YYZ?

I second that question. Since EY has 5th freedom for LAX-YYZ, I guess they will have for ORD-YYZ too, but would like to know for sure.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
25 Airplanenut : The TLV-LAX-TLV route used to be a 744. As for Newark, when did they start adding Chicago? Since the round trip is just under 24 hours of flying, I t
26 JAGflyer : A more unrelated question: If LAX becomes non-stop, what happens to the YYZ-LAX-YYZ flights? Can I still fly to LAX from YYZ on LY? What will be the r
27 Post contains images YULWinterSkies : Bullsh*t. Especially now when compared to the price of oil. Airlines have other concerns... They would have done it already if landing fees were the
28 YULYMX : EL AL use to come to Montréal there is a huge Jewish comunity in montréal, heck even AC had a flight in the past a B767 i think! Even the smooke mea
29 IAD380 : Hopefully, LY will continue flying to YYZ. YYZ offers a healthy mix of business, tourist, and VFR traffic for both LY and AC. It seems that the TLV-YY
30 KrisYYZ : IF LY does suspend service via YYZ and AC picks up the slack I wonder what would they do to increase capacity? I doubt that the loads would warrant a
31 YULWinterSkies : Probably not. Unless you backtrack to TLV perhaps! Do some people actually even think of flying LY when travelling between YYZ and LAX? Well, althoug
32 RickYHM : For what El Al pays for landing fees at YYZ, they could build there own wing at YHM and still save money.
33 AirbusfanYYZ : IIRC I don't think you can buy just a YYZ-LAX ticket on LY. Cheers, Kaz
34 N1120A : While I agree with your opinion on Toronto's status, Wikipedia is a really bad source to use. What are you talking about? Toronto is the center of Ca
35 Post contains links MAH4546 : Yes, you can. Yup. In fact, at one point (still?), IIRC, Delta codeshared on the route. ORD has been via Newark since September 2003. Well, yes, but
36 Ordryan28 : Not sure when, but it is now. come october they're supposed to cancel the TLV-EWR-ORD and make it TLV-YYZ-ORD...4 x weekly on 762's -Ryan
37 FLYACYYZ : What do you define as world class?? Is Toronto on the same stage as New York, London & Paris?? Perhaps not. Aside from being Canada's cultural and fi
38 YTOFAN : You can buy YYZ-LAX-YYZ tickets directly from the LY website. The flight is also codeshared with Delta. The tickets are much cheaper than their compe
39 Klyk1980 : It is very sad if LY stop flying to YYZ. AC will be the one to benefit. As I know YYZ is currently charging the highest landing fee in the world. I am
40 Post contains images Jayce : Busiest airports in Canada in terms of passengers (2005): 1. YYZ: 29,930,200 2. YVR: 16,418,883 3. YUL: 10,892,778 4. YYC: 10,148,718 5. YEG: 4,511,6
41 Klyk1980 : Yes Jayce, YYC is coming up quickly because you people in the west getting more traffic from cities in the west. I cannot wait to see if any Asian air
42 Post contains images YULYMX : Thank's to Air Canada oups Air Toronto i mean From YUL the only canadian city that is not offer nonstop is victoria BC compare yo YYZ YUL could be an
43 JAGflyer : Screw pre-clearance. I can fly to LAX round trip for about $460 with tax. The flights are the cheapest and better than AC or AA because: -Convenient t
44 JAGflyer : You can't compare Royal Air Maroc or Egyptair to YYZ. There are tons of African Arabs in MTL, no market for it in YYZ. There are tons of Swiss/French
45 YULYMX : Flight Nonstop from yul... stop in yul both way from YYZ
46 KrisYYZ : Every major airline has a hub, AC has Toronto as it's hub.. get over it people!! The GTA is the most populous metropolitan area in Canada therefore i
47 Post contains images YULYMX : Ac is locking up all the route @ YYZ They could provide AMS and FCO from YUL like Canadien did the own the route The international Carrier come to YU
48 Post contains images AirbusfanYYZ : Quite amusing you missed Air France in your list... Regardless of what you may want AC to operate from YUL. They will only operate the routes with ap
49 YULYMX : Yes and they come 3 times a day with a B777, B747, A330/343
50 Post contains images YOWza : Agreed. If only they would see the kind of growth lower landing fees would encourage. I'm assuming you meant LY. Does anyone know when EY stops stopp
51 Post contains images N1120A : Yeah, that's not racist or anything
52 Post contains images Jayce : United would actually be Air Chicago, Air Denver and Air San Francisco. Though I do understand the frustrations. Canada is big enough for two or more
53 AirbusfanYYZ : AC actually has two major hubs in YYZ and YVR and two minor hubs in YUL and YYC. Cheers, Kaz
54 MAH4546 : Because we all know how Jewish is a race.
55 Post contains images N1120A : Oh sorry, ethnocentric
56 Post contains images Flyyul : Hey Kaz, Without attempting to throw fuel on the fire, AC offers more daily departures and daily seats out of YUL than YVR.. but who;s counting anyway
57 YULYMX : YUL is the 2nd hub of Air Toronto oups Air Canada!
58 Post contains images AirbusfanYYZ : I was just wondering when you'd enter the fray! LOL You're right but isn't that skewed as it's mostly from high frequency transborder flights with RJ
59 Flyyul : YULYMX, Leave the immaturity at the door. Air Canada is not a charitable organizations, and it certainly will not serve 3 month a year VFR/Leisure mar
60 Post contains images Flyyul : Hey Kaz.. hope all is well these days, The problem with Vancouver is that the operation is mostly concentrated around Asian activities (i.e. 10-1400).
61 Post contains images YULYMX : Personnaly dont care about either... West jet is base in YYC and Canjet YHZ Air Canada is supose to have is head office in Montréal... but that is b
62 YULYMX : One last thing in the winter we YUL is never close... only AC cancelled flight to YYZ...
63 FLYACYYZ : This is such a tiresome response. AC is a private entity that is in the business of turning a profit. Read FLYYUL's post point by point. It's all the
64 YULYMX : I did mean really ther is more head office business wise in Toronto than Montréal , not Air canada
65 FLYYUL : YULYMX, Please carefully read and absorb the comments made on this thread with respect to YUL vs. YYZ and then let's engage in debate.
66 YULYMX : There not much to debate... i am still not blind i know that YYZ is huge compare to YUL in size, runways, traffic, gates, Carriers Etc... Yul is limit
67 FLYACYYZ : Nobody can fault you for having a "wish" list. Lets take your examples: YUL-AMS: Even YYZ does not have year round YYZ-AMS service. There is little b
68 YULYMX : Totally Agree! One laste thing: If AF bring 3 heavy to YUL wouldn't you expect the same from AC? i know that Montreal-Paris is pretty saturated (Tran
69 FLYYUL : YULYMX, Air France gets 65-70% beyond CDG. For air Canada, CDG is a dead-end with only some interline feed to ME/AF France Regional etc.
70 Vega : Actually the Facts are: 1 Tel Aviv 2,560,000 2 New York 1,970,000 3 Haifa 655,000 4 Los Angeles 621,000 5 Jerusalem 570,000 6 Southeast Florida 514,0
71 Travelin man : Getting back to the original topic of El Al and how they are supporting flights, are there any plans to cut back flights given the unrest between Isra
72 YULYMX : Tel Aviv is pretty secure place, not on the bordure of lebanon
73 Post contains links MAH4546 : You can show me those facts and I can show you these: http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_judaism.html Unfortunately, there is no "set" facts, but
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