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Embraer Offers High-density E-jets  
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 40
Posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

Quote:
São José dos Campos, July 19, 2006 – Embraer today announced that it will offer

EMBRAER 170/190 family aircraft in high-capacity variants as a response to the growing interest among airlines, which are focused on maximizing their revenue potential in specific markets.

No structural changes or new testing will be necessary to certify the new EMBRAER 170/190 configurations, which are specified below.

Link with more info:

http://www.defesanet.com.br/rv/farnb...gh_06/3_embraer_high_density_e.htm

Great news for the airlines. I wonder if FlyBe has anything to do with this or wether they can convert their orders to the HD config. E195?

Also, Embraer is reporting that the E190/5 have shown to have 3% greater fuel efficiency as a result of improved manufacturing technics and reduced drag. More info here:

http://www.embraer.com.br/institucio...-190_and_195_Improvements-I-06.pdf

Cheers


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3180 times:

well, i'd say there goes the comfort these birds are known for. time to pack em in like sardines in the name of profits.


"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13138 posts, RR: 100
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 3041 times:
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High density is relative

E170 goes from 78 seats to 80 seats... What, was a galley moved?
E175 goes from 86 to 88...

One *half* row. So comfort isn't realy compromised on the smaller e-jets

E190 goes from 108 to 114. Ok, one more row... But I thing the 99 or 100 seat configuration will remain the popular choice on this E-jet.

E195 goes from 118 to 122. This, for Flybe, makes a ton of sense to me.

One row... whew! I was expecting to see a 28" pitch version with 130 pax in the E195! These look like they'll be 29" or 30" pitches. Any confirmation?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2827 times:
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This is really interesting. A story in the latest issue of Airways (mostly about Horizon/q400) says that Bombardier claims that in terms of seat-mile costs the CRJ900 "beats the E190 on most stages. To achieve the same figures, ten more seats would have to be installed in the E190."

I'm sure there's lots of Bombardier puffery in that claim, but this looks like at least a partial response from Embraer to counter that threat. But adding seats in this fashion also detracts somewhat from the Embraers' main selling advantage over the crj900 -- superior comfort.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2771 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 2):
E195 goes from 118 to 122. This, for Flybe, makes a ton of sense to me.

I think you will now see increased interest from US carriers. This is now an attractive aircraft for the short haul, low freuency, low O & D markets like DAY.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineEmSeeEye From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 4):
I think you will now see increased interest from US carriers

Maybe this is WN's 100 seater they are looking at?


User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3029 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2681 times:

Im sure FlyBE would have had something to do with this, and applied the pressure to Embraer to try and get them to certify the aircraft with an extra row of seats. Esspecially with fuel prices continuing to rise!

You can almost guarantee they will adding the extra row of seats!

FlyBE's legroom is not good at the best of times with 29-30inch seat pitch... Another pressures inch of legroom taken away!


User currently offlineJobsaGoodun From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2479 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 6):
FlyBE's legroom is not good at the best of times with 29-30inch seat pitch... Another pressures inch of legroom taken away!

The only aircraft with a 29" pitch in the Flybe fleet is the AEU 737's. Generally Flybe's legroom is superior to other LCC's at 31" average. This should remain about the same with the E195, even in 118 config.


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2223 times:
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Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 2):
One *half* row. So comfort isn't realy compromised on the smaller e-jets

Well, people here complain like mad about the "cramped 31 inch pitch Y-seating" on most airliners'... widebody or single-aisle. It won't take long before the "comfortable" is replaced with "cramped" for the E-jets too.

US Airways will start it off with 88 seats @ 31" pitch in their new E190s. Also one can wonder how the cabin service will be on two-class E190s as only two FAs will be onboard (one of the E190's main selling points). One FA will be occupied with 10-11 F-customers while the other FA must rush through the Y-cabin to serve all 88. I can hear the announcement: "I request all Y-pax to siddown and shuddup while your dedicated FA offer you an abbreviated beverage service of half a can of cola per pax - no special requests, please!"

120 seats on the E195 will make it a great 737-200/500 replacement, I'd say...



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineAeroplan73 From Canada, joined May 2006, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2200 times:

Quoting Arrow (Reply 3):
I'm sure there's lots of Bombardier puffery in that claim, but this looks like at least a partial response from Embraer to counter that threat.

Perhaps it's time for Bombardier to develop the C Series to really take on Embraer.



I remember, the choices were chicken or fish. I had the lasagna.
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6197 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

Quoting Arrow (Reply 3):
I'm sure there's lots of Bombardier puffery in that claim, but this looks like at least a partial response from Embraer to counter that threat. But adding seats in this fashion also detracts somewhat from the Embraers' main selling advantage over the crj900 -- superior comfort.

It is not puffery... it is misinformation. And no, this is not a CASM issue. While it is true that the CRJ-900 has slightly better TRIP COSTS than the E-175 the E-175 has better CASM figures. And the CRJ-900 is not even close to the E190 in CASM... let alone trip revenue.

BTW, Even with the same pitch (which the airline choses) the E-jets are still considerably more comfortable than the CRJ.

Quoting Aeroplan73 (Reply 9):
Perhaps it's time for Bombardier to develop the C Series to really take on Embraer.

Unfortunately it is a non-starter.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineTangowhisky From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 930 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2125 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
120 seats on the E195 will make it a great 737-200/500 replacement, I'd say...

Don't forget inefficient Avro RJs



Quoting Aeroplan73 (Reply 9):
Perhaps it's time for Bombardier to develop the C Series to really take on Embraer.

Yeap, but do you know what is holding up the C Series? No customers!!!!

TW



Only the paranoid survive
User currently offlineAeroplan73 From Canada, joined May 2006, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2052 times:

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 11):
Yeap, but do you know what is holding up the C Series? No customers!!!!

Oh, just that? lol

It seems to me that the market is there for that size of jet, so I wonder why it's a non-starter.



I remember, the choices were chicken or fish. I had the lasagna.
User currently offlineTangowhisky From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 930 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1994 times:

Quoting Aeroplan73 (Reply 12):
It seems to me that the market is there for that size of jet, so I wonder why it's a non-starter.

"TRUST" by the market and suppliers that Bombardier's C Series wont end up being an interim plane when Boeing and Airbus come up with their narrowbody replacements. There is also the talk about an engine by PWC, but nothing concrete. Don't forget that Boeing are saying they wont launch the 737 replacement before the new engines are ready (so how could Bombardier?, it would be like the L1011 program or the original 747 program where the late engines alomost killed Lockheed and Boeing). One other reason is Bombardier's shakey financial position that further makes potential customers and risk sharing partners skeptics. Results in inability to finance the program by issuing more equity (the stock is $3, used to be $25 5 years ago), and issuing debt is expensive as the company's credit rating is rated at Speculative.

IMO the only way Bombardier could pull it off would be through some truly innovative design concepts. Then the risk takers would jump in. But there is nothing innovative about the C Series, just the same old tired ideas.



Only the paranoid survive
User currently offlineWe're Nuts From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1981 times:

Big deal, the CRJ was high-density since day one.


Dear moderators: No.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6392 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1981 times:

Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 5):
Maybe this is WN's 100 seater they are looking at?

Why wouldn't WN be looking at the 736? I know the economics aren't great, but WN values commonality above all else.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineTangowhisky From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 930 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1951 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 15):
WN values commonality above all else.

Southwest values economics above all else. Commonality is a factor in economics, just like quick turnaround times, minimal gate numbers per airport, high aircraft utilization, etc.



Only the paranoid survive
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