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AA Will Apply For DFW-China Flights  
User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1342 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6708 times:

AA announced the following:

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/15076641.htm

Well, one thing the competition will be stiff, alright. I don't know, but won't CO and IAH have something to say about this?!!

Anyway, good luck to DFW. It will need it.
P.S. Don't get your hopes up, fellow DFW fans!


Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11387 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6648 times:

Well, if this is true, which indeed it appears it is if a news conference is scheduled, than I am thrilled. This is what I have been predicting and advocating for months, as it appears to make perfectly logical sense to me. Plug D/FW -- a growing metro area with booming trade links Whto Asia -- into the economic beating heart of the entire Asia-Pacific region. While I could be wrong, I would guess that this probably means an application for DFW-Beijing, not DFW-Shanghai. While Shanghai would probably offer more onward connections because of the China Eastern link, AA probably expects that their application is strengthened by offering service not just from a new U.S. gateway to China, but also a new city for AA. I hope AA wins the authority!

User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3917 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6639 times:

Quoting Texdravid (Thread starter):
but won't CO and IAH have something to say about this?!!

Good question. I am not holding my breath however. Aside from the Latin American expansion, CO seems to have little interest in expanding IAH' s int'l operations beyond the above mentioned region. I have to give kudos to carriers like DL and AA that seem to give deference to their hometown operations in ATL and DFW in terms of high profile destinations, such as JNB, SVO from ATL and the above mentioned applied for China routes form DFW. Of course the most given reason for CO's lack of any real expansion from IAH to Europe or Asia is a lack of equipment, seems I heard this back in the DC-10 days. I suspect once the 787s come online IAH will probably get the brush off once again. Then again Houston can hardly compete with the NYC market, can it?

I suppose we will just have to wait and see.

Thomas

[Edited 2006-07-20 03:24:21]


"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6639 times:

Seems like every time AA announces a new international route it goes to ORD or MIA, so I like that AA is at least trying to bolster DFW international presence. That said, it’s going to be a tough battle for DFW to gain a piece of the so called lucrative China pie.
My two cents is that the DOT will give weight to an application that adds more non-stop China-NYC flights.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11387 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6582 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 3):
My two cents is that the DOT will give weight to an application that adds more non-stop China-NYC flights.

I disagree, especially now that although the New York metro lacks nonstop flights to Shanghai, the tri-state area has double-daily service to China, offered by both a U.S. and Chinese airline. D/FW, on the other hand, would be a completely new gateway to China for the U.S., currently lacking any service there, and also would be a new city for AA. It would also provide far more connecting opportunities than CO could promise over EWR. I do agree that AA is going to face an uphill battle with their application -- but because of the sheer weight of all the competing applications, not CO's in particular. Personally, I think this race is going to come down to AA seeking DFW-PEK and UA seeking SFO-CAN. I don't think CO's application is as valuable as the first was, as it's two main arguments -- that it would be a new carrier in the market, and opening up a new route to China for a U.S. carrier -- are both now moot. DL's application has the same problem it did the first time around -- the market it serves is too thin, despite the massive and, admittedly, unbeatable connection opportunities over ATL, and ATL is just too far east to be of value to major markets like the Midwest. Just my $.02.


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6552 times:

I thought DL was not allowed to bid on these routes as it was only open to incumbent US-China carriers. Did I dream that? I'm almost positive I read that on the government's request for applications.

I hope a US airline bids for LAX-China authority, as currently there are no US airlines flying to China from LAX. I would have thought AA would have been a good candidate. I am assuming you can bid for more than one route?


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6552 times:

This is really quite a surprise to me. The South as a whole is not generally as Asia focused as the NE or west is. I think AA has a very good chance of getting these rights because the DOT does favor developing air service; aside from S. Korea and Japan, the South doesn't have a whole lot of Asian flights. Developing a decent presence in Asia means AA is less and less in need of acquiring anyone else's Asian system as many have speculated they will need to do.

If AA does pursue DFW-PEK and not PVG, the really loser in this could be Delta if they persist in pursuing ATL-Beijing - which could be AA's motivation. There are few markets that are served out of DFW that are not also served out of ATL so if AA gets there first, it leaves little opportunity for DL to justify new service to the southeast.

What is surprising is that AA still not interested in developing LAX. I would think this would be a good opportunity for AA to gain a limited access route from LAX that would help develop a west coast presence to Asia. Right now, no US airline serves any point in Asia outside of Japan from LAX which is highly unusual considering the size of the Asian market in southern California.

This will be interesting to watch.


User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6524 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
I disagree, especially now that although the New York metro lacks nonstop flights to Shanghai, the tri-state area has double-daily service to China, offered by both a U.S. and Chinese airline.

It’s true that NYC travelers have more than one daily option when it comes to traveling to China, but it’s also true that NYC travelers only have one US flag carrier option. If history is any indication the DOT will favor the NYC option even more this time, as it will give travelers more options from the NYC area and thus create more competition.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5231 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6524 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
DL's application has the same problem it did the first time around -- the market it serves is too thin, despite the massive and, admittedly, unbeatable connection opportunities over ATL, and ATL is just too far east to be of value to major markets like the Midwest. Just my $.02.

DL cannot apply for China route authorities for 2007 as this round is open only to incumbents. It will have to wait until the 2008 round which will be open to incumbants as well as to new entrants. So, for the time being at least, DL's ATL-PEK application will not be in direct competition with AA's DFW-China application.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 957 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6488 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
The South as a whole is not generally as Asia focused as the NE or west is.

That's a rather dated perception. Last year, a Chinese shipping company named a superfreighter the Hanjin Dallas to commemorate the rapid trade growth between China and Texas. In fact, Texas is already one of the largest gateways to Asia, second only to California.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6446 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
If AA does pursue DFW-PEK and not PVG, the really loser in this could be Delta if they persist in pursuing ATL-Beijing - which could be AA's motivation.

I agree, WorldTraveler, that if AA is awarded DFW-China, it could hamper DL's chances. I would imagine DL's lobbists in DC will lobby hard against this particular bid as they know it could jeopardize their own from ATL in 2008. With this being said, I do still think AA would have a better chance of success from LAX.


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6386 times:

This is actually a great move.

Not only is it a new gateway but it can offer onward service to South America which the Chinese government would love more of.

The Chinese government has been boosting ties with South American nations big time to improve trade relations. AA's South American network will work in their favor.

Personally I think AA should be doing more from DFW. I wondered why they did ORD-NGO and not LAX or DFW-NGO.

[Edited 2006-07-20 04:20:17]


Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11387 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6386 times:

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 5):
I thought DL was not allowed to bid on these routes as it was only open to incumbent US-China carriers. Did I dream that?

You are correct, my mistake. My apologies to all. Strike my DL application comments from the record.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
The South as a whole is not generally as Asia focused as the NE or west is.

Tell that to the Metroplex, which is now getting more than 35 weekly cargo flights to and from Asia, the vast majority 747s. The D/FW Metroplex, and really all of Texas, and all of the south in my mind for that matter, is doing booming trade with Asia, and particularly China.


User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6338 times:

Quoting Centrair (Reply 11):
Not only is it a new gateway but it can offer onward service to South America which the Chinese government would love more of.

The US DOT route authorities are awarded with US travelers and US carriers in mind. It could care less what the Chinese government would love.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 11):
The Chinese government has been boosting ties with South American nations big time to improve trade relations. AA's South American network will work in their favor.

AA Latin American presence at DFW is pretty weak when compared to its MIA hub.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6317 times:

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 3):
Seems like every time AA announces a new international route it goes to ORD or MIA, so I like that AA is at least trying to bolster DFW international presence. That said, it’s going to be a tough battle for DFW to gain a piece of the so called lucrative China pie.
My two cents is that the DOT will give weight to an application that adds more non-stop China-NYC flights.

The reason DFW-China will work for AA is because of the massive feed AA has from DFW. As WorldTraveler noted, this might take some of the sting out of DL's future application for ATL-PEK, as most markets that served from ATL are also served from DFW.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6273 times:

I agree Texas is booming in China-Trade. The Chinese Consulate in Houston just expanded its operations for local trade/business. Three new postings at the Consulate just to deal with Texas business and trade!

an article from the Houston Business Journal, I provide this not as some Houston vs Dallas thing but to add to the comments above about Texas-China trade.
Fair Use snippets-
Houston trade mission to China yields early results
Houston Business Journal - 11:02 AM CDT Wednesday

Houston Mayor Bill White and Shell Oil Co. President John Hofmeister have already reported positive results in the midst of a weeklong trade mission to China.

According to the mayor's office, a number of agreements have been reached between the City of Houston and the City of Shanghai that are expected to bring closer ties and increased economic opportunities to both cities.

"We've worked hard to reach deals on a number of fronts, and we believe they will add more business and more jobs," White said in a statement. "China is booming, and Houston businesses are in the game. These are not just promises. We have some real deals and action items to pursue."
Agreements signed include:

* A partnership between the Mayor's Office of International Affairs and Development and the Shanghai International Merchandising Center to create a joint trade development program, including procurement centers to help match buyers and sellers of goods and services in the respective cities;
* An agreement between Houston and the Jinshan District of Shanghai to jointly facilitate business development for oil and gas and petrochemical companies;
* A joint-degree and faculty development partnership between the University of Houston and the East China Science and Technology University; and
* A partnership to develop shared exhibitions between the Houston Museum of Natural Science and the Jinshan District of Shanghai.

The Greater Houston Partnership has also been a party to the trade mission, which included stops in Shanghai, Dalian, and Beijing.


AA is being smart and it seems like a good shrewd move. This would do well for DFW, IMO, and would be marketed well by the COGs, Chambers and businesses in the North Texas area.

BTW Thomas I think the CO 787s will bring more to IAH like Madrid and some Asia. So don't fret  Smile

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Fat kids are harder to kidnap


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4745 posts, RR: 44
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6242 times:

If SA)">AA succeed with getting DFW-China rights, then they should go a DAILY SAME PLANE SERVICE with a B 772ER....routing be PVG-DFW-GRU...big money to be made here with such a service.

User currently offlineDaron4000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6171 times:

Also, UA might be gunning for SFO-CAN (Guangzhou) because in their Hemispheres Magazine, it said that an upcoming 3 Perfect Days Article would focus on that city.

User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6167 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 14):
The reason DFW-China will work for AA is because of the massive feed AA has from DFW.

I agree that it could work for AA; but IMO the DOT will probably not award such a route, as it’s not in the best interest of the US.
If connecting the US with China via a fortress hub is such a great idea, then why did DL proposed ATL route get rejected during the last round of applications?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32573 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6142 times:

This is a pleasant surprise, because all rumours were pointing towards AA wanting to open up LAX or JFK non-stops to China in lure of O&D. AA has a good shot with their application.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 18):
If connecting the US with China via a fortress hub is such a great idea, then why did DL proposed ATL route get rejected during the last round of applications?

Because Atlanta's logical cachment area for Asia services is smaller than Dallas.



a.
User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6131 times:

I could be wrong but iirc, I thought i remebered hearing that D/FW metro area was one of the largest cargo shippers to china... I think it would be a smart move on their part to tap into the market... also the feader aspect for passengers would be a huge plus for them.


Why do I fly???
User currently offline102IAHexpress From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1156 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6106 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
Because Atlanta's logical cachment area for Asia services is smaller than Dallas.

I don’t know,
but in the words of the DOT from the last go around, "The selection of Continental enables the U.S. to use its first opportunity to fill a critical service gap presented by the lack of U.S. carrier service to China from the U.S. east coast."

Perhaps the DOT will be inclined to narrow the gap between China and US east coast even further this time as well.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4863 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5992 times:
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Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
If AA does pursue DFW-PEK and not PVG, the really loser in this could be Delta if they persist in pursuing ATL-Beijing - which could be AA's motivation. There are few markets that are served out of DFW that are not also served out of ATL so if AA gets there first, it leaves little opportunity for DL to justify new service to the southeast.

Agreed..brilliant move on AA's part to send DL back to the drawing board. Even if AA does put up DFW-PVG instead of PEK (and gets it), it will still have an impact on DL's ATL-PEK application for 2008 as the South would already be opened up to direct PRC service (a big part of DL's argument). If AA gets the 2007 designation from DFW, DL may well have to reconsider and perhaps switch the 2008 application to one of its other hubs...if it's JFK, they may go for JFK-PVG which would put them into direct competition with CO's EWR-PVG (which presumably would be up again in 2008). If CO gets the 2007 designation, then DL will likely keep ATL-PEK in 2008 but have to compete with AA's DFW proposal then...

Overall, not a good one for DL no matter which scenario plays out..with one stroke, AA has diminished DL's offering under most scenarios...DL will have to rely more on its standing as a new entrant in 2008 to win approval or hope the DOT comes up with a "AA for ORD-PVG" type decision...


User currently offlineKlwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2012 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5964 times:

Well well, isn't this interesting....

Recently there was a thread about new routes from the USA to China.. MAH4546, didn't we just discuss this???

I stated that I seriously doubted AA would attempt JFK to China at this time. MAH4546 seemed to disagree, saying going up against CO would be in AA's best interest, and the DOT would view their application favorably, since it would increase competition. The fact that AA would rely on mostly O&D traffic at JFK would not be a major factor.

I countered that DFW would be more attractive to DFW since they could count on lots of connecting traffic and a good deal of O&D. In a sense at DFW they could get the best of both worlds. MAH4546 dismissed that idea, saying the DFW O&D to China would be inadequate, and connecting traffic would be "constrained to the southeast (his words)."

Well I was right. I think AA will look at JFK-China in the future, but certainly not at this time. There are bigger fish for them to fry. DFW-China is certainly that. Opening up a new gateway to the PRC, from one of the top hubs in the country. Best of luck to AA (and CO of course).


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32573 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5948 times:

Quoting Klwright69 (Reply 23):
Recently there was a thread about new routes from the USA to China.. MAH4546, didn't we just discuss this???

I stated that I seriously doubted AA would attempt JFK to China at this time. MAH4546 seemed to disagree, saying going up against CO would be in AA's best interest, and the DOT would view their application favorably, since it would increase competition. The fact that AA would rely on mostly O&D traffic at JFK would not be a major factor.

I countered that DFW would be more attractive to DFW since they could count on lots of connecting traffic and a good deal of O&D. In a sense at DFW they could get the best of both worlds. MAH4546 dismissed that idea, saying the DFW O&D to China would be inadequate, and connecting traffic would be "constrained to the southeast (his words)."

Well I was right.

Congrats.

I still think a New York or Los Angeles application would have had stronger merits. It is a pleasant surprise to see AA give their home turf a try, and they have a shot at winning it. However, the shot relies mainly on the fact that none of the three applications are particularly strong. UA's lacks in that they already offer four daily flights to China; CO's lacks in that they already offer Newark-China service; AA's lacks in that the Dallas market does not offer strong local traffic (if approved, this flight will probably realy on 75%+ connecting, like the struggling DFW-KIX route) and feed is still constrained (though both EWR, by geography, and SFO, by limited domestic network, are also connection constrained).

An AA JFK/LAX application would, IMO, have been stronger. It would have offered a clear advantage over the other two, while this one makes it a closer call. If AA gets it, it may hurt Delta if they still want an Atlanta-China flight, which might just have been part of their reasoning.

AA and UA have pretty equal shots at this, since they are both providing new gateways on either end. CO is on the outside looking in, IMO.



a.
25 AeroWesty : Looking at this another way, according to the article: "For decades, flights to China were operated by only two U.S. carriers — United and Northwest
26 DeltaSFO : I have to think that DL saw the writing on the wall with respect to ATL-PEK long before AA decided to get into the SE-China business--after all, they
27 Mcmax : It would be great if AA established a foothold into LAX-Asia destinations. However, perhaps it is not as high a priority as DFW/ORD-Asia destinations
28 Commavia : Or perhaps the DoT will now feel inclined to narrow the gap between China and the southern U.S., which now has no flights to China while the east coa
29 Cslusarc : Can someone give me an example of three markets (behind DFW) that would have faster service to China via DFW than the options currently available?
30 YULYMX : New Orleans, Florida, NC, SC,
31 WorldTraveler : In terms of market size, the south is still substantially smaller than either the west coast to China or NE to China markets. The growth rates are hu
32 Positiverate : DOT wasn't necessarily looking for O/D traffic only. In fact the DOT initial solicitation stated that they wanted to be able to open new gateways, se
33 FlyPNS1 : The DOT didn't throw their requirements overboard. When awarding routes, the DOT is also charged to make sure the routes they award have some chance
34 TokyoNarita : Someone has asked which cities would have faster service to China via DFW but those cities would also have ORD service to connect to AA's own ORD-Chin
35 Positiverate : So why did DOT then say they had the strongest application? That would imply that they also had traffic flows?
36 Par13del : Is there not another way to look at this issue other than just an a/c purchase, what about customer loyalty, known manufacturer etc?
37 Post contains links PlaneGuy27 : American would be wise not to exploit any advantages of a third country in its application. DOT will only care about what the new service would bring
38 McMax : And, if DL doesn't make it through BK, there's now a wonderful Terminal 5 next door to AA's Terminal 4 up for grabs. (Of course, I don't want to see
39 Ssides : In addition, I really don't think it makes sense to award the route to a carrier in bankruptcy. I know this might not play into the DOT's decision-mak
40 AeroWesty : Are you referring to NW here, I hadn't heard what their application will be for yet. DL isn't allowed to bid in this round.
41 MAH4546 : I would not be surprised if Northwest goes for something other than CAN/PVG/PEK, like Harbin or Chengdu. A little overlooked here is that the seven fr
42 AeroWesty : Excellent point. I was wondering how 195 weekly frequencies were going to be used up within 6 years awarding only 7 frequencies per year. Are there a
43 WorldTraveler : The DOT has awarded dozens of route awards to DL since filing for bankruptcy. How do you think they got all those Mexico awards? BK status has absolut
44 MAH4546 : You are right that being in BK has nothing to do with DOT criteria. However, the vast majority of the Mexico routes they got were uncontested. Of tho
45 Post contains images Kanebear : Any point in Texas (HOU, AUS, SAT, MFE, etc), MSY, DEN, ATL, MIA, etc etc etc. DFW also provides one-connection access to China to MANY secondary mar
46 MAH4546 : I left out RDU because in less than two months, AA will no longer offer an F product on the route. Though yes, Dallas is indeed to Gatwick, to somewh
47 Yellowtail : A I belive AA flies DFW-LGW..not LHR.
48 ScottB : And after that "certain European manufacturer" publicly tried to place all the blame for the crash of flight 587 on AA's pilot training, I suspect it
49 WorldTraveler : Operating aircraft that are designed to fly 7000 mile routes on 4000 mile routes is significant underutilization. It is precisely for this reason tha
50 ScottB : Except that I don't believe that CO's frequent flyer base in Houston would choose to fly AA on IAH-DFW-PEK when they could stick with CO by flying IA
51 MAH4546 : Well then, I guess Delta is under utilizing their 757s, since they are flying them on so many Florida-Atlanta runs. They can easily fly JFK-Europe. A
52 Post contains links Laxintl : AA's application can be read at; http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p86/405881.pdf A rather short and dry application. AA proposed to start service March
53 Bartond : It doesn't seem like it would be shorter for someone to fly from, say, Miami to Newark, then on to China than it would be to fly via DFW. Interesting.
54 ScottB : Arguably, what people do is to look at the price of the flights and the schedules, as well as perhaps choose one preferred airline more often than ot
55 MAH4546 : More significantly, when dealing with flying such a long distance in the first place, the negligible distance savings over Newark via Dallas are not
56 Post contains links Legend500 : Interesting...on the same day, Mandarin Oriental (Macau/China's most prestigious flag hotel chain) announced a new location in Victory Park in Dallas
57 Post contains links Tismfu : Actually, Mandarin announced its Victory/Dallas plans back in May: http://www.mandarinoriental.com/hotel/520001161.asp
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