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Replacement For SQ A310-300?  
User currently offlineAndrew From Singapore, joined Dec 1999, 369 posts, RR: 1
Posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1873 times:

There's been a bit if news on the last couple of months regarding SQ's impending order of a fleet of medium-capacity, medium-range aircraft to replace it's aeging Airbus A310-300's. I've heard that Airbus is developing the A330-100, which is a shortened version of the A330, and Boeing is pitching it's 767's at SQ, and possibly the 777-100 if there's a go-ahead.

Does anyone here have any news, or comments to contribute to this post? Thanks!


andrew


25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePakistania From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1782 times:

ive been wondering the same wonder which one will they opt for?


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Pakistania


User currently offlineIndianGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1780 times:

I think it would most probably be the shortened A330, as it is the ideal A300/310 replacement.

But i also hear that Boeing is offering a very tempting 'swap' deal.


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1769 times:

Would the A330 have a shortened wing? The huge length of the current ones could cause gate space problems for what is only a medium-sized aircraft.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineMarcelduchamp From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1769 times:

Andrew...

I know as much as you.
1) But strategically speaking SQ may involve AN and NZ in the selection and ordering process.
2) I see that it would be unlikely that SQ will order 767s as they did not before because of its lack of capacity in the cargo hold.
3) The shortened 777 seems to be on the backburner as it was deemed too expensive n inefficient to operate, plus it may eat into the 764's customer base.
4) Thus the shortened A330 comes into the picture. This begs the question of whether SQ's unhappiness with the A340 will affect its view of the A330.
5) Or the 764 is a possibility, but probably too big an aircraft.

SQ has been speaking of their "W" aircraft order for a while (The A343s were "X"; 777s were "Y"). Their first A313 was delivered in 1987, though the newer ones aren't that old. They have already disposed of 2 a/c, presumably the oldest in the fleet, and leaving 15. There have also been talk of Air India leasing a few A313s.

It is notable that the A313s in SQ's fleet have been ignored in all its refurbishment programmes including the installation of KrisWorld and the recent three-class "Rainbow" relaunch. But earlier this year, as stated in its "Priority" magazine, the seat coverings, curtains and carpets were replaced with the current designs. Some cabin crew I know personally dislike working on this a/c type.


User currently offlineB777-200LR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1761 times:

well , i heard abit of this news . Recently Boeing 767-400ER came to Singapore for a world tour and i think its unlikely that SQ will order the 764 but it be interesting if they order a few . I do reallie hope they choose the A330-100X ahead of the A310-300 and the A3XX instead of the B747X . It be nice to see SQ with more varietes of fleets .

User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1753 times:

I thought it was A330-500, not A330-100. But I think B767-400ERX/B777-100 will win SQ's order.

User currently offlineWidebody From Ireland, joined Aug 2000, 1152 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1735 times:

....I think A330-100 was the project with the A300 wing, that was decided against, and now the project is called the A330-500 with a modified A330 wing....

User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1719 times:

First of all the shortest 330 is now called 330-500 and not anymore -100.
The 767-400 is to big to replace the A 310. The 764 has about the size of the 330-200 and the 310 is much smaller.


User currently offlineCapt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1717 times:

Marcel,
I thought the "Rainbow" launch was only relevant to SQ's 744 fleet (the new First Class etc.)?

I did fly the SQ A310 about 2 years ago to Denpasar, needless to say, the "First Class" cabin interior/decor looked dreadful!

I'm surprised they've left the A310 replacement so late. What was the problem with their A340's??


User currently offlineLauda 777 From Sweden, joined May 1999, 501 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1701 times:

Hi my friend...Not so many posts from you here....We have discussed this before  

When I think of Singapore AIrlines I just see the word: Boeing, Boeing and Boeing


Big Hugs
/Jonas



Joystick for flightsim. Yokes for real planes.
User currently offline777x From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1701 times:

IndianGuy,
If the A330-500 is the ideal A310 replacement then why air airlines like Lufthansa turning their backs on it for their A310 replacements? (Currently looking at 757-300/200ERX)

Really, there isn't an ideal replacement for these aircraft, otherwise the decision would be an easy one. Hard to call which way this one will fall.

Regards
777x


User currently offlineFanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1682 times:

OK, so if the 764 is "too big", but the 763 doesn't have enough cargo room, the most economical route would not be to buy a A330-500, but to go ahead with the 764. They can make up the extra cost of flying the bigger bird with all that cargo business that you all say that they have. Then their 777 pilots can fly the 764--same flight deck-- and they have a bigger, more efficient aircraft to grow into, rather than trying to be economical with a double shrink aircraft with no room to expand. The 777-100 idea is pretty much dead with the announcement of the 767-400ERX and the Ultra-long range version of the 777-200. Pretty much I agree with 777x. There isn't a natural replacement.


"FLY DELTA JETS"
User currently offlineSIA fan From Indonesia, joined Aug 2000, 728 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1675 times:

I flew SQ's A313 twice last month, SIN-JKT-SIN. On the flight to JKT the aircraft had the new interior, seat coverings, etc. Nevertheless the aircraft looked very old. On the flight to SIN, the aircraft still had the old interior. It looked even dreadful. I think SQ should change the A313 ASAP. But there aren't many destinations served with A313 anymore are there?

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SQ*G BD*S
User currently offlineAndrew From Singapore, joined Dec 1999, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1669 times:

SQ's A310-300's are operated to the following destinations:

Kuala Lumpur (also with 777-200's)
Penang (also with 777-300's)
Bangkok (also with 777-200s and A340-300's)
Denpasar
Jakarta (also with 777-200's, 777-300's and A340-300's)
Macau
Kota Kinabalu
Kuching
Cairns
Surabaya
Medan

There might be a few more, but these are the ones from the top of my head.

andrew


User currently offlineAndrew From Singapore, joined Dec 1999, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1663 times:

I agree with you, SIAfan, the A310-300's should be replaced as soon as possible. As you could probably tell from the other posts on this topic, may others aren't too happy with the aircraft as well.

With regards to 777X, yes, the decision for an A310 replacement will not be easy. It's really anybody's guess at this stage. Let's hope to see some sign of talk on the SIA Board for a decision.

It's good that you mentioned the link with NZ, AN and VS, Marcel. I had cleanly forgotten about it. What I did hear though is that NZ and probably AN might be getting some of SQ's 63 777's on order. Would bei interesting to wait and see the final outcome.


andrew


User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1665 times:

This thread brings up an interesting question. Why was the A310 such a dud? Someone in the above said that SQ has had theirs only 13 years or so. Thats not terribly old. How come these planes have aged so poorly?

russ


User currently offlineJumboClassic From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1645 times:

The rumor goes that SQ will opt for the A321/739 for the A313 replacement. Kind of a trend recently... (remember LH). Seems like the A330-500 will not serve its purpose after all. Maybe it will never be built. Same like the 777-100. What do you guys think?

User currently offlineSv11 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1641 times:

How about the 757-300 as a replacement choice? The A310 will probably be sold and converted to freighters, like the MD-11.

sv11.


User currently offlineTupolev154B2 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1332 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1639 times:

With the great need of an A310 replacement all around and the fact that the proposed A330-500, why doesn't Airbus consider modifying it to make it a more ideal replacement?

User currently offlineSammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1638 times:
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Thirteen years is ancient in SIA's fleet. Its a wonder they didn't insist on a new plane earlier. Then again, they did, since their 777 order was, in part, supposed to replace the A310s, but the Asian crisis hit, and messed up those plans.

Sammy


User currently offlineAndrew From Singapore, joined Dec 1999, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1630 times:

SammyK is right, 13 years is ancient in SQ terms, seeing that the average age of the entire fleet is about 5 years and 6 months.

JumboClassic, I'm not too sure about the A321 or B737-900 aircraft, seeing that they're of smaller capacity compared to the current A310-300. Personally, I think what SQ really needs is an aircraft whose capacity can equal or slightly better the A310, but at the same time with short/medium range efficiency.

However, SQ's subsidiary, Silkair, operates an all Airbus A320 family comprising the A319 and A320.

The 757-200 or -300 series could be a contender here, from the sound of things. Incidentally, SQ did operate a fleet of B757's before they were retired in the middle 80's.

It's interesting to see the replies on this post here.

Cheers!


Andrew


User currently offlineMarcelduchamp From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1619 times:

Andrew...
...You just beat me to it. I was about to post a reply about the 757's service with SQ. The airline ordered both types (757 and A313) in the 80s as they "could not decide". But after only a few years, they dropped the 757, probably prefering the Airbus. Thus, I think it unlikely that SQ will look at any 757 and its successors, or any narrow bodied aircraft for that matter!! But in their request for aircraft to the manufacturers, they specified a mix of wide and narrow bodied craft. My guess is that it's just a formality. SQ and single aisle? I don't think so. That's all left for SilkAir (MI) to handle.

Plus, I don't think the 777s will get to AN/NZ very soon. SQ is too money conscious to let their new aircraft fly for others during the "prime" of their in-service lives. Note that the 744s/743s/313s that they have leased out have all been the OLDEST in the fleet.

Capt. Picard...
...The "Rainbow" was indeed restricted to the 744. That was what I typed before. With the 313, they did not replace the "hardware", i.e. the Ultimo or SkySuite seats and cabin walls, but just updated the "software", i.e. seat coverings, carpets, curtains and pillow covers to the "Rainbow" or Givenchy design (and not the 343/777 marine theme). Regarding the 343s, I do not know what the problem is, but there MUST be a reason to their displacement!! There MUST BE and I'm DYING TO KNOW!!!

To everyone else...
It's amazing how slow off the mark Airbus and Boeing have been with the A310 replacement. Actually, the 300 series is not THAT old, but airlines like LH, SR, NZ QF amongst others have alot of aircraft in that range that will need replacement soon. The A332 and 764 are far too large. Maybe they're still trying to extend the 767's life, esp. with the "777-interior" 763.

A problem with SQ is that it has not undertaken a comprehensive refurbishment of the interiors for the 313 (unlike the 744s which must have been ripped apart at least 4 times!). From experience on NZ, CX, BA and FJ you are usually confused whether the 742 or 743 you're flying on is ancient or new. You note certain specifics like lavatories, overhead bins, ceiling panels and walls, and galleys. Usually SOME of the above will be replaced (new toilets) or new seats will be installed (but leaving the old overhead bins). For SQ, I do not think that they have even undertaken anything as comprehensive as that. The whole aircraft is probably still the same as when it was delivered in 1987. This leads back to their philosophy of replacing aircraft rather than undergoing piecemeal changes with seats etc.. But with the A313, their timing could be considered a tad off!


User currently offlineGUNDU From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1612 times:

I think SQ will either go 767/777 or 330 for their A310 renewal.Although I woluld like SQ to go 767 as the cockpit has more commonality than the A330 and the 777.(I am not including the A340 as it will be sold in a few years)The A330 would only have commonality with the A345 which would only arrive in 2003.




Gundu


User currently offlineWidebody From Ireland, joined Aug 2000, 1152 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1595 times:

About a year ago, both Airbus and Boeing stated that the investment necessary to replace the A310/767 fleets would not be worth it, and as all their resources were tied up in other projects, they would be offering compromised packages........

Tupolev154B2.......in Airbus's case, all their resources are tied up in the A318/340-500/-600, and now, more than ever the A3XX....I'm not too sure what Boeing said, I think that they were concentrating on the 777 family......


User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 377 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (13 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1586 times:

isnt the A330-200 an A310 replacement? most airlines are buying those.


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