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Why Is LHR So Coveted Compared To LGW And STN?  
User currently offlineTracks From China, joined Mar 2004, 24 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 10422 times:

I've been thinking a lot lately about what a nightmare it is connecting between terminals at Heathrow, how the airport doesn't fit together very well, how much of it is old and tired looking and I began wondering why so many airlines covet it so much. Aside from being connected to the tube I can't think of one good reason why LHR is better than STN or LGW for O&D passengers. Why are slots at Heathrow so coveted amongst airlines compared to LGW and STN?

68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 10382 times:

Because of all it's delays and wasting airline's fuel!!
Better going to AMS, FRA or CDG.


User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10358 times:

Quoting Tracks (Thread starter):
Aside from being connected to the tube I can't think of one good reason why LHR is better than STN or LGW for O&D passengers. Why are slots at Heathrow so coveted amongst airlines compared to LGW and STN?

I think it's two things.. one is the sheer number of carriers and destinations served and two is the amount of transportation available to/from LHR. I've flown into all three and even though it's a much maligned facility (I've even done the T3-T4 connection) I actually like it. I've taken the Tube and Heathrow Express and found the transportation into central London easier than dealing with the Gatwick Express (which - if memory serves - is no longer running) or the nightmare we went through to figure out how to get to and from STN.


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10337 times:
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Quoting Tracks (Thread starter):
Why are slots at Heathrow so coveted amongst airlines compared to LGW and STN

Because of the location that LHR is. LHR is the preferred airport for passengers, and AA, UA, BA, and VS are able to charge higher fares on such trunk routes from JFK, ORD, BOS, and IAD. LGW is becoming like LHR with the heavier traffic, and newer entries from across the pond are into forced into STN now because of congestion at Gatwick. LGW has come along way from the secondary, charter hub of the 1970s and and 80s. It used to be a race track, now it's a rat-race. Cool aviation store on the mezzanine



Made from jets!
User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10311 times:

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 2):
I think it's two things.. one is the sheer number of carriers and destinations served and two is the amount of transportation available to/from LHR.

True. Irrespective of what anyone thinks of Heathrow, it's the most accessible airport into Central London. It's also the closest to the western parts of London (Kensington, Chelsea, etc.) and the affluent towns of Surrey where you have a larger concentration of business travellers who are likely to fly long haul flights and will pay for business or first class travel.

I personally love Heathrow. I know the connections can sometimes be messy and the airport, in general, does not look pretty, but no airport in the world can come close to in giving off that certain busy, international feel.


User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10169 times:

LHR is an archaic mess with traffic and airlines are wasting a lot of fuel flying here. Holding in the air, holding on the ground makes for many disgruntled passengers. LRH will just be twinkling lights 7 miles below in years to come with air traffic overflying this place. AMS, CDG and FRA are much better airports with regards to traffic and people flow.
I had friends who spent half an hour in the holding pattern prior to landing, then another hour spent holding on the ground prior to offloading. After their nine hour flight which ended up being a ten and a half hour flight, then missed their connecting flight as well. They were not happy people. I try to avoid LHR when I possibly can.


User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10141 times:

Quoting Tracks (Thread starter):
I began wondering why so many airlines covet it so much.

LHR has most of the high-yield, long haul routes out of London. There is a higher yield potential when you transport people to/through LHR than LGW.

Most countries that have an airline that flies to London fly to LHR.

Gatwick is definitely an easier airport to maneuver.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineORDRyan28 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 988 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10087 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6):

LHR has most of the high-yield, long haul routes out of London.

Yes, don't forget about LHR being BA's home base. Alot of US, Canadian, South American Passengers fly into LHR so they can then connect to another destination, say Lithuania. BA flies practically everywhere you can think of, and if not, LHR has an airline that flies to the place you're looking for. I'd say close to, if not the majority of the passengers that fly into LHR are connecting and then flying to another European, Asian, African destination.

-Ryan



Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 10025 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 5):

So in addition to the A/B cheerleader and bashers here on a.net, we have a new breed - a Heathrow basher!

Like it or not it is the airport of choice when going to London or for transit for the various reasons mentioned. The fact that it is the busiest international airport in the whole wide world - nothing even comes close - is self-evidence of its importance.

The terminals are a bit below par at the moment compared to CDG or Frankfurt but things are looking up with T5, Heathrow East, R3, and T6 in the pipeline.

You may dislike it as much as you want but the 90 internationally respected airlines and the 70m passengers using it each year to fly to 180 destinations disagree with you.

It's a wonder the place even runs as it is so hats off to everyone who makes it work - me included.

[Edited 2006-07-21 07:34:36]


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User currently offlineLredlefsen From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9988 times:

I flew into/out of LGW for the first time in my life last month, and have to say that compare to LHR, it's complete crap! (I flew to/from LAS.)

The arrivals lounge of LGW is OK. Departures is a nightmare. Checking in, I had to fight my way through dozens of airlines' checkin lines just to get to the VS Upper checkin line, and then, you're competing with a bazillion people at the security line! Thank god for FastTrack! The Virgin Club House is about 3 miles from the actual gates... *sigh* I guess it's no better than T4 at LHR.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10022 posts, RR: 96
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9942 times:
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Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 4):
Irrespective of what anyone thinks of Heathrow, it's the most accessible airport into Central London. It's also the closest to the western parts of London (Kensington, Chelsea, etc.) and the affluent towns of Surrey where you have a larger concentration of business travellers who are likely to fly long haul flights and will pay for business or first class travel.

Right on the money for me  checkmark .

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 5):
LRH will just be twinkling lights 7 miles below in years to come with air traffic overflying this place.

Greater London (The M25 and its environs) contains an easy 50% of the entire UK population, and the majority of the UK's business and commercial centres. So where do you think the large majority of people will want to fly to when they come to the UK?
To the south-east of England.
Which is served by 4 major airports - LHR,LGW,STN,LTN.
Development plans are already made for these airports, which will all grow. In 40 years time LHR will STILL be the biggest.
Why? Because it can.
It has the most mature infrastructure (in all sorts of ways), and the PLANNING acceptance for the developments which will keep it that way (whether we like it or not).

If LHR is "just twinkling lights 7 miles below", what are you suggesting for the countless MILLIONS of travellers who want to go to LONDON? They overfly to AMS, and then transfer to LTN?  rotfl 

Fragmentation is a fact that I certainly won't deny, but HUBS will always be HUBS.
Heathrow's traffic levels will only go 1way, and its not down. (I suspect the same applies to CDG, LAX, FRA, SIN, HKG, JFK............and so on, too).

Regards


User currently offlineCardiffairtaxi From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9895 times:

Quoting Tracks (Thread starter):
I've been thinking a lot lately about what a nightmare it is connecting between terminals at Heathrow, how the airport doesn't fit together very well, how much of it is old and tired looking and I began wondering why so many airlines covet it so much. Aside from being connected to the tube I can't think of one good reason why LHR is better than STN or LGW for O&D passengers. Why are slots at Heathrow so coveted amongst airlines compared to LGW and STN?

Its called the M25 Motorway!
If you are travelling from the South West/Wales to London,then LGW is ok in the early hours/late night to reach,but STN is an absolute nightmare to get to.
Traffic on the motorway,can easily add 2hrs+ to your journey.


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9850 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 10):
Greater London (The M25 and its environs) contains an easy 50% of the entire UK population,

60 million people in the UK you mean 30 of them live close to/inside the M25!? Inner London has 7.5m. So 22.5m in the suburbs!? No way. But I agree with you - there are a lot of (rich) people.

Also under BAA, Heathrow has been developed into a international business hub, Gatwick the Leisure hub and Stansted the Blue and Orange low-no budget hub. Each airport has its own status and role to play. This may change if Ferrovial decides to offload 1 or more of these and they start competing for traffic.



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User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9808 times:

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 2):
the nightmare we went through to figure out how to get to and from STN.

Really? I flew in and out of STN with FR four years ago and found it a breeze. The STN xpress takes you in 40 minutes to Liverpool street station, and the terminal itself is a relief compared to the dirty bunker feeling at LHR T3 or T4. Plus it's on the budget with carriers like FR serving it...



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10022 posts, RR: 96
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9803 times:
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Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 12):
60 million people in the UK you mean 30 of them live close to/inside the M25!? Inner London has 7.5m. So 22.5m in the suburbs!? No way. But I agree with you - there are a lot of (rich) people.

I did say "environs"  Wink

IIRC, some 20M people live "inside" the M25 (or was that "on" it .... biggrin  ), but if you include "environs", e.g 20 or so miles OUTSIDE the M25 (Crawley, Guildford, Aldershot, Farnborough, Woking, Bracknell, Windsor, Slough, Maidenhead, High Wycombe, HH, Dunstable, Luton, St. Albans, Hatfield, WGC, Harlow, Chelmsford, Basildon, Rochester, Gillingham, Sevenoaks, Tonbridge, etc, etc...... crowded ..phew ) I reckon you won't be far off 30M  Smile

They'll all use London Airports  yes   Smile

Regards


User currently offlineSpruit From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 375 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9790 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 5):
LRH will just be twinkling lights 7 miles below in years to come with air traffic overflying this place. AMS, CDG and FRA are much better airports with regards to traffic and people flow

Yeah I'm sure people who want to travel to these destinations will only see LHR as a set of twinkling lights! Heathrow may not be the nicest airport in the world but it's been around the block and it's showing it's age, if you don't like it, don't go to it! Go to CDG and train it back into London on the EuroStar!?

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 5):
I had friends who spent half an hour in the holding pattern prior to landing, then another hour spent holding on the ground prior to offloading

Show me an airport which doesn't have delays and I'll show you an airport miles away from any major commerce centres with little or no convenient transport links!

Please, if your going to make comments, try to make them relevant and constructive.

Spru!



E=Mc2
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9673 times:

I'll prefer Heathrow to any of the top 20 airports in the US - a 2 hr ground stop and then number 40 in the departure queue, that's daily business...


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User currently offlineKeego From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9552 times:

I flew into LHR on Wed and back out again on Wed night(was at Farnborough, had to throw that in) and it was fine. We were holding for about 10mins on arrival which is quite common at any major international airport and delayed 1/2 an hour on departure because the plane was late leaving DUB, I really like LHR its my fav airport to fly into, not to mention the countless spotting opportunity's eyepopping .

User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9525 times:

Quoting EHHO (Reply 13):
Really? I flew in and out of STN with FR four years ago and found it a breeze. The STN xpress takes you in 40 minutes to Liverpool street station, and the terminal itself is a relief compared to the dirty bunker feeling at LHR T3 or T4. Plus it's on the budget with carriers like FR serving it...

That was 4 years ago. FR have many more flights now. The train is often packed, Sunday night after 10pm is manic.


User currently offlineSkidMarque From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9513 times:

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 2):
I actually like it. I've taken the Tube and Heathrow Express and found the transportation into central London easier than dealing with the Gatwick Express (which - if memory serves - is no longer running) or the nightmare we went through to figure out how to get to and from STN.

Actually the Gatwick Express is still running, I used myself just last Tuesday, 30 minutes Gatwick to Victoria. There have been rumours of it's demise, but at this time it still very much exists



DUCK !
User currently offlineJm017 From Jamaica, joined Jun 2002, 1227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9436 times:

Quoting GBOAG (Reply 19):
Actually the Gatwick Express is still running, I used myself just last Tuesday, 30 minutes Gatwick to Victoria. There have been rumours of it's demise, but at this time it still very much exists

Yes, i thought this service was cancelled (or now a local service). But I guess not.



"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9432 times:

Three reasons:

Location

Location

Location.



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User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 774 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9383 times:

Location is definitely a reason. Heathrow has grown over the years to be London's "main" airport, with Gatwick and Stansted being backups and/or alternatives to passengers who didn't want to go through the hassle/headache of Heathrow. Another advantage of Heathrow is convenience. Heathrow, being a hub for BA and VS, offers connections to many cities in coordination with other airlines. I don't know, I think Heathrow was able to expand and accomodate its customers as the market expanded.

User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9325 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 1):
Better going to AMS, FRA or CDG

AMS is a great airport and FRA is OK, but CDG? LHR is a model of organization compared to the mess at CDG.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13206 posts, RR: 77
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9314 times:

So BOAE773, not only are R/R engines crap, but so is LHR!
Again, explain the popularity of both.

It's an interesting universe you live in, but it's not real life.

For sure LHR has it's problems, I live near it, have worked there all my adult life, when you are that close you know the flaws.
But also the advantages, myself I think this counts for more than 'what a friend told you', a figure of the number of pax using LHR each year would be interesting, a provide some context perhaps.


25 Theflyboy : How anyone from Canada can criticise LHR is beyond me. I have been through Toronto many times & Pearson is one of the worst airports I have ever had t
26 Cedarjet : The tube is a nightmare. It takes hours. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. While I'm a fan of the Paddington Express itself - it's the best line in
27 Post contains images Arsenal@LHR : Well said. Heathrow is not a pretty airport like HKG, DXB, SIN, KIX, AMS or ZRH, but it WORKS. The facts speak for themselves. 68 million people used
28 FlyKev : Hell, LHR isnt the nicest looking airport, the most comfortable airport (I can touch terminal 2s ceiling at check in!) however its the most convienien
29 74472 : Look, it's an old airport that just gets on with doing it's job. The glittering terminals are being built as we speak and it won't be long before ther
30 GDB : Well I very often use the tube-from Hatton Cross, if it's central London I'm heading for, I'm usually there in less than an hour. Not always at off pe
31 BOE773 : If one removes the European passengers from LHR, then it drops way down in regards to being the busiest International airport. Isn't Britain a member
32 SLCUT2777 : Think of NYC-LGA if it had more terminal space and longer runways. JFK would be NOTHING (except perhaps the airport of choice for WN)! That is the way
33 Cloudyapple : Errr... because the UK is a separate country to France, Germany, the Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, etc, etc... Is Canada the same country as te US si
34 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Some people look at it from purely an economic standpoint and view Canada as 10 additional states (all adding up to about the size of California) to
35 Post contains images Planesarecool : Because they're not British....? I find LHR great, as i do with STN and LGW. Although I'm not one to scream and cry if a ceiling is too low or there
36 74472 : You've obviously just got it in for the UK judging by these and other remarks you make. It isn't about biggest or best or busiest, the UK is a G8 cou
37 Cloudyapple : What's the problem with Mexicans coming into Texas by the same token? Isnt Mexico yet another 10 or so states of the US? Oh isn't the UK another 4 of
38 Post contains images Gokmengs : Ok so are you suggesting people to fly to AMS, CDG, FRA when they want to go to London, that will be hard to sell
39 Tjr16698 : These guys have pretty much distilled the whole thing into two main factors. Living in Italy, the best connections for me are to LGW. There are two r
40 Christeljs : I find LHR extremely easy to navigate. There are free busses and trains to all the terminals and if you got time and want to, you can even walk...
41 Christeljs : And only 2 terminals.
42 Motopolitico : You're kidding me, right? You said it! In terms of 'people flow' CDG is unmitigated disaster. 50 minute connections from an Air France transatlantic
43 StanstedFlyer : Couldn't be simpler with the Stansted express or coach links. If you live in the west and travel during rush hour. Just depends where you approach fr
44 UAL777UK : CDG is the pits of the earth. I have been through second world countries airports with better facilities!
45 Post contains images Ncelhr : Spot on, Cedarjet. I live in Kensington & fly out once or twice a month on average. I wouldn't say that the Heathrow Express is the best line in the
46 StarGoldLHR : I live just under LCY, and 50 minutes from STN. I fly from LHR all the time. It takes me 2 hours to get to LGW and 90 minutes to get to LHR. Given LCY
47 ReverseThrust : The Gatwick Express is still running, so it's obviously a long time since you've been there! It's difficult to get into STN because of the mass domina
48 BDKLEZ : Incidentally, how much more does it cost you to get to LHR?
49 StarGoldLHR : £12 approx Tube round trip 90minutes each way, or £31 with tube/LHREx (80-95 minutes) which saves me 10 minutes on the tube only if the LHREx is re
50 N1120A : Not even close Actually, Greater London is 7.5 million. That includes both Inner and Outer London Then you have only been at T2, which will be demoli
51 UAL777UK : Thats true but even if it does stop there is plenty of frequency of existing trains on the route into London.
52 BCAL : It must have been a few years since you were last at LGW! Scheduled services have formed the bulk of LGW's traffic since the late 90s, and the days w
53 VC10 : I agree with everybody who suggests that reaching Gatwick from the west by using the M25 is a nightmare, so much so that people in the North Hampshire
54 BOE773 : trying to get to a gate at any airport around london is a nightmare. many of the passengers are in transit just thru one of these places, then over to
55 Bmiexpat : If we are talking about a hub for transit passengers, what difference does it make if the hub is on an island or mainland Europe? Is this just anothe
56 BOE773 : lhr needs to de-hubbed with respect to continent pax.
57 SJCRRPAX : Ah, but what service. Heathrow Express trains leave every 15 minutes. One train loading up and one leaving. A/C and huge luggage racks. Man, I'll tak
58 Speedbird2155 : Nothing strange about this given the age of the London network and the fact that it was not designed with air con in mind. Also, unlike many other pl
59 Post contains images SEAPlane10 : Sorry, but this is completely erroneous...from 2001 to 2005 the American economy grew from USD 10.1 trillion to USD 12.5 trillion, an increase in siz
60 N1120A : Actually, the proposition would be to use Gatwick express trains, leaving on the same schedules on the service, so the frequency would not change, th
61 Post contains images SEAPlane10 : I did not realize GDP growth was an outdated economic activity indicator. Using real growth with a base year of 2000, the size of the US economy in 2
62 N1120A : With a savings rate of -4%, that could be a problem. Further, import consumption isn't what has caused the woes of the US as import consumption was s
63 BOE773 : For some more original thread creep, here is a good source for factual data. https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html
64 SEAPlane10 : What woes? In comparison with what countries...France, Germany, Italy, Japan? Actually the savings rate for 2005 was minus 0.5%. It is actually savin
65 BOE773 : I remember reading somewhere that the state of California had a higher GDP than the Brit Isles.
66 SEAPlane10 : Britain's GDP is larger, using either purchasing power parity or current exchange rates to measure it.
67 N1120A : Not according to the last economic reports I read Again, I point to the economic strength of the balanced budget/surplus era in the 1990s where the d
68 GustyOrange : Not strictly true. The United Kingdom is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The Republic of Ireland is a separate country. g
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