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Why South American Airlines Don't Fly To Toronto?  
User currently offlineMaiYYZ From Canada, joined Jul 2001, 35 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5083 times:

Hello all...
Varig, Vasp and other South American airlines used to fly to YYZ in the past. But currently, no airline from that region seen to be interested in starting service to YYZ or another city in Canada. There is any reason for? I know AC offers many flights to GRU, LIM, BOG, SCL, CCS and EZE. In the meantime, I know many airlines from Caribbean and Central America, like Cubana, TACA, BWIA, Air Jamaica fly to Toronto, and those routes are all served by AC too. My point is: there is more passenger/cargo demand between Canada and Caribbean/Central America than Canada and South America? Thanks for any comments.


CU IL62M, CP 763, QN A310, QN B757, AC 763, CU A320, SP A310, AC A340, AC B773, AA B772, AA B738, AA CRJ600
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2406 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5051 times:

I'm sure Lan Chile and Ladeco (LA and UC) at some point used to fly to Canada, not sure about the city, though.

I don't think an airline as LA needs now to fly to Toronto or Montreal, it's much more profitable to use partners as AA or AS

Regards )(



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User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11419 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5011 times:
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Quoting MaiYYZ (Thread starter):
My point is: there is more passenger/cargo demand between Canada and Caribbean/Central America than Canada and South America? Thanks for any comments.

MaiYYZ, Canada investments in Brazil use to be even larger in the past than nowadays. Due to strong investments made by US, Spain, Portugal, France, UK and other countries like Mexico and also crisis on the 90's, the fleet reduction obligate airlines as RG to fly only for a little number of destinations. Furthermore, Brazilians use to immigrate to Canada during the 80's and 90's and this people dream has been changed in favor of Europe.
Talking about Brazil, Canada use to be a top 5 foreign investor, now is not among the top 10 (probably ranked 18th), so the demand is not so strong for C and F nowadays for two flights to YYZ.
Also, there are another explanation (geography), people outside YYZ could just go south and connect thru ATL, MIA, IAD, JFK, IAH or EWR. Seems to be for some people, closer than a flight XXX-YYZ-GRU
Concerning to Cargo, it's cheaper to consolidate thru the US than run cargo flights Canada-Brazil or even Argentina, Chile and other countries.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2571 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4932 times:

Apparentely YYZ is in Conviasa's plans for its North American expansion which is expected to occur sometime in the upcoming years.

But personally, I think I'll grow white hair first before that happens.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4896 times:

There have been recent talks about Avianca being interested in flying to YYZ from BOG, paralel to Air Canada's current service. They would eventually market the flights together.

In my opinion, Avianca is fine codesharing with Air Canada on its three weekly services from Toronto to Bogota for now; the market still isn't that big anyways. It wouldn't surprise me one bit though if either airline decided to increase frequencies in the medium-term.


SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineMaiYYZ From Canada, joined Jul 2001, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4673 times:

Thx for all comments.


CU IL62M, CP 763, QN A310, QN B757, AC 763, CU A320, SP A310, AC A340, AC B773, AA B772, AA B738, AA CRJ600
User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4670 times:

What I know is that there is not too much pax market for 02 airlines. AC is very good not only to Canada but its connections to FarEast, what makes their loads good in keeping the amount of frequencies they have.

User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4393 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4550 times:

fFying to YYZ is very expensive and that has kept many airlines away, to name some VS and CM.

AV has plans to operate a daily flight from BOG to YYZ in partnership with AC. (4x weekly AC A319 and 3x weekly AV 757), though it wont happen until the market matures a lot more.

CM also has plans to start PTY-YYZ, though they are not South American.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1560 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4475 times:

The GTAA charges arguably the highest fees to operate at YYZ in the world. Carriers that once had flourishing operations have cut their YYZ operations as costs have risen-SQ, VS, and CM come to mind. In addition, alliances has made it easier-VG can cooperate with UA, US or AC to YYZ, LA has the assistance of AA through MIA and JFK, CM can connect its passengers through IAH with CO.


The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4320 times:

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 8):
CM can connect its passengers through IAH with CO.

Connecting traffic to/from Canada via a U.S.A. Airport is only attractive for those who don't need U.S.A. Visas to travel to the States and don't mind going thru "post 9/11 Port-of-Entry formalities".
There's traffic between Latinamerica and Canada wishing for more non-stops flights to Canadian cities (mainly YYZ, YUL and YVR).

As of why Southamerican airlines don't fly to YYZ, I would say that maybe there are cases where the bilateral between a Latinamerican country and Canada don't allow the national airline to fly there but to other Canadian airports. That is the case of CM, an outdated bilateral allowing thrice weekly service to YUL (then YMX) and YVR.
Also there is the point of very expensive operating costs @ YYZ and YHM not being an interesting alternative (YYZ competitor) for an attractive Toronto flight from Southamerica.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4252 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 7):
AV has plans to operate a daily flight from BOG to YYZ in partnership with AC. (4x weekly AC A319 and 3x weekly AV 757),

I can see AV supplementing AC's YYZ/BOG service, however I don't see AC returning to the A319's on the route. The 762 was deployed on the route, largely because of cargo. There are huge amounts of fresh cut flowers, and produce, that are shipped, that can't be left behind due to freight capacity restrictions.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineNicolasRubio From Argentina, joined Sep 2005, 584 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

Quoting MaiYYZ (Thread starter):
I know AC offers many flights to GRU, LIM, BOG, SCL, CCS and EZE. In the meantime, I know many airlines from Caribbean and Central America, like Cubana, TACA, BWIA, Air Jamaica fly to Toronto, and those routes are all served by AC too. My point is: there is more passenger/cargo demand between Canada and Caribbean/Central America than Canada and South America? Thanks for any comments.

You just answered your own question... The little demand is already covered by AC...



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User currently offlineEastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 871 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4197 times:

Both first Lan Chile and Ladeco both operated Montreal-YUL from SCL via MIA and JFK. Back in the multi-stop days.


AA will Rise Again!
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4164 times:

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 12):
Both first Lan Chile and Ladeco both operated Montreal-YUL from SCL via MIA and JFK. Back in the multi-stop days.

That would have been Montreal - YMX. Mexicana is currently the only Latin American carrier serving Montreal.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4393 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4006 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 10):
I can see AV supplementing AC's YYZ/BOG service, however I don't see AC returning to the A319's on the route. The 762 was deployed on the route, largely because of cargo.

Ok, then it would be 4xw 762 3xw 757, of course, to fill up that amount of seats, it will take a couple of years for the market to mature.

BTW Im glad AC is carrying loads of cargo to Canada. Always good to hear two countries are having more trade.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
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