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WN In The Market For Used 737-700'sl  
User currently offlineN471WN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1531 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 9156 times:
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Just posted to the Aviation Week and Space Technology site is an article that says that WN is looking for used 737-700's to meet demand created by the other carriers cutting back. The article cited a number of cities (including Denver) where the demand for seats exceeds supply........again the legacy carriers and their legacy of "over paid" and yet "under innovative" and "short term" management played right into their hands.....they just never learn. If NWA, US Air and AA think that their capacity reductions do not have long term consequences then they are just kidding themselves.

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7573 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 9130 times:

http://www.speednews.com/listings/jetindex.html

User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 32
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 9117 times:

Quoting Dbba (Thread starter):
The article cited a number of cities (including Denver) where the demand for seats exceeds supply........

I haven't seen AW&ST's article, but I've heard that MSY is on that list, as well.

Tom at MSY



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8673 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 9099 times:

It wouldnt surprise me although one question comes to mind. Doesnt WN have a different EFIS style cockpit? I'm just curious as to how they would configure the used cockpits. Btw, It wouldnt surprise me if they pick up ex UA 733's.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6752 posts, RR: 32
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 9099 times:

Quoting Dbba (Thread starter):
Just posted to the Aviation Week and Space Technology site is an article that says that WN is looking for used 737-700's

This was mentioned in the analyst call earlier this week as well, but it doesn't appear that there are many idle 737-700's to be had right now.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 9078 times:

They are looking, but where is Southwest going to find used 73Gs in the near term future?


Just a thought, isnt Easyjet phasing out its 733/73G fleet in favor of A319s.....what is the status of their 73Gs?


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6764 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 9062 times:

Listed airports are Denver, Las Vegas, Raleigh, Reno, Chicago, and New Orleans.


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 9062 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 3):
It wouldnt surprise me although one question comes to mind. Doesnt WN have a different EFIS style cockpit? I'm just curious as to how they would configure the used cockpits. Btw, It wouldnt surprise me if they pick up ex UA 733's.

I think SWA will eschew the used -300/-500 market in favor of the used -700s. The -300s/-500s are getting older, and there are only a certain number of "round-dial" (non-EFIS) aircraft to be had. There were rumors that we were to upgrade all our round-dial -300s/-500s to flat panels (like the -700s) but that appears to have been placed on the back burner due to cost.

I see Varig was going to return 2 -700s to the lessor(s), and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't eventually end up here.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 3):
It wouldnt surprise me although one question comes to mind. Doesnt WN have a different EFIS style cockpit? I'm just curious as to how they would configure the used cockpits.

If we picked up used -700s, converting them to our cockpit layout would be pretty simple via a software change, unlike the days of old where used -200s/-300s meant changes in the physical instruments in the panel.

[Edited 2006-07-22 00:22:39]

User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6764 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 9047 times:

ARticle also states that they will not be getting rid of any aircraft before 2009. None. Zero. Zilch.

But I tell you what.. airlines think that decreasing the number of seats will help.. but they will also be losing quite a bit of customers due to the shortage of seats.. The seats are getting so expensive, those that would fly are instead opting to drive. If an airport had an 8% increase and then see a 12% decrease in seats, there is a problem.. and as predicted, most of those airlines that are decreasing capacity are seeing a decrease in marketshare and a decrease in revenue at restricted airports (those that have decreased seats).

But that's just my opinion.



Aiming High and going far..
User currently onlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6372 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 9029 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 7):
The -300s/-500s are getting older, and there are only a certain number of "round-dial" (non-EFIS) aircraft to be had. There were rumors that we were to upgrade all our round-dial -300s/-500s to flat panels

My understanding is that most 737-500's were delivered with the 757/767 style PFD's (and that this is how the Aircraft was oiriginally certified), however WN ordered theirs with "steam gauges" (round dials) for fleet commonality purposes. If so, wouldn't the refit be somewhat easy, in that the parts should be available and that it's already FAA certified? Of course, I'm omitting the amount of work that goes on behind the panel, of which I must plead 100% ignorance  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9001 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 6):
Raleigh,



Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 6):
Reno,

RNO??RDU?? That's odd.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8968 times:

Lets make this more interesting.......

Does anyone think that Boeing or one of the leasing companies could arrange an aircraft swap to accommodate Southwest?

Here is what I am thinking, both CO and AS have large 73G fleets and both airlines now prefer the larger 738 variant of the 737NG family....what if CO or AS were to sell their 73Gs and in turn place an order for additional 738s. Actually, both AS and CO have large 738 orders outstanding, although in both cases the 738s are intended for expansion and to replace older airplanes (in AS's case, 734s and MD80s and in CO's case, 733s).

This is a very interesting opportunity and is proabably something that Boeing and the leasing companies will get involved with in a big way.


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8673 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8954 times:

Cool beans. I love the 737. How bout calling Boeing and see if they have next day delivery service. LOL.

Good luck to WN. I know they will find or pick up the U2 a/c.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7573 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8954 times:

How soon do they need to increase capacity?.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8876 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9):
If so, wouldn't the refit be somewhat easy, in that the parts should be available and that it's already FAA certified?

Parts would be available, but costly.

Uploading different software into a non-7H4 and rebooting the aircraft is a better solution...


User currently offlineRyDawg82 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 861 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8831 times:

Alaska has 3 737-700's heading back to the leasing company either this year or next...I recall reading this when they announced the MD-80 retirement plan...These three birds should be the only ones without winglets...
-R



You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8687 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 3):
It wouldnt surprise me although one question comes to mind. Doesnt WN have a different EFIS style cockpit? I'm just curious as to how they would configure the used cockpits. Btw, It wouldnt surprise me if they pick up ex UA 733's.

WN's 73G cockpits

...compared to other 73G cockpits

WN 733 cockpits

...and everyone elses

you tell me!

But wouldn't the issue of cockpits be offset a bit by WN's determination to have its pilot's trained to fly all types of their 737s?

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 11):
Here is what I am thinking, both CO and AS have large 73G fleets and both airlines now prefer the larger 738 variant of the 737NG family....what if CO or AS were to sell their 73Gs and in turn place an order for additional 738s. Actually, both AS and CO have large 738 orders outstanding, although in both cases the 738s are intended for expansion and to replace older airplanes (in AS's case, 734s and MD80s and in CO's case, 733s).

Do they need $$ for planes or butts in seats right now?


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8648 times:

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 16):

Do they need $$ for planes or butts in seats right now?

Huh?


User currently offlineJoffie From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 806 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8643 times:

Isn't DJ getting rid of their leased 737-700's?

User currently onlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6372 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8622 times:

Quoting Joffie (Reply 18):
Isn't DJ getting rid of their leased 737-700's?

I thought all the Aussie 737's were specially built to compensate for the Coriolis Force in the Southern Hemisphere being the opposite of it's Northern Hemisphere counterpart  Wink [I'm being fecicious here for those who don't understand humor]

OTOH I believe some of WN's secondhand 733's are ex-Annsett birds.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8597 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 19):
OTOH I believe some of WN's secondhand 733's are ex-Annsett birds.

If there are, they must have been some place else before we got them. The only non-3H4 birds I can readily recall came from AA, Easyjet, Air Berlin, and of course, the Morris Air birds.


User currently onlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6372 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8597 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 20):
If there are, they must have been some place else before we got them. The only non-3H4 birds I can readily recall came from AA, Easyjet, Air Berlin, and of course, the Morris Air birds.

Oops, maybe that was HP's secondhand 733's...my bad  footinmouth 



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8539 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 21):

Oops, maybe that was HP's secondhand 733's...my bad

There could still possibly be some (I'd have to dig), my only point was that if so there was likely another airline user between Ansett and Southwest...


User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8528 times:

Quoting RyDawg82 (Reply 15):
Alaska has 3 737-700's heading back to the leasing company either this year or next...I recall reading this when they announced the MD-80 retirement plan...These three birds should be the only ones without winglets...

I know that the 3 leased AS 700s are going to go back to the lessors
in the next year, but I have also heard that all the 700s might go away
in favor or 800s.



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8438 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 3):
Btw, It wouldnt surprise me if they pick up ex UA 733's.

I dont think so....we are currently phasing out 735s and if I am not mistaken...we have begun the process of phasing out the 733s...eventually it will be all 737-700...


25 DfwRevolution : There are no plans at this time to begin 735 retirement. The first 733 should begin retiring in 2008-2009, with a substantial fleet staying part of W
26 PlanesNTrains : Weren't there some ex-Western Pacific birds, or were those in and out quickly? Three is a start for WN. Wasn't CO looking at moving out as many as 24
27 EA CO AS : It's this year...but I thought it was just two 73Gs going back? My figures show 22 in the fleet, with 20 in the fleet in the coming years. I suppose
28 FlyHoss : I don't recall that deal, for 24 73Gs to leave CO (though I could be wrong). I do recall a (nearly done) deal for CO to send 4 73Gs to TZ/ATA in an "
29 PlanesNTrains : You're right - it was four. That would make a helluva lot more sense too. -Dave
30 Amazonphil : I believe WN's cockpits are also HUDS(Heads up Display) on most if not all of the 73G's??? That would make them different in even another respect. am
31 OPNLguy : Yeah, those too, 4 or 5, I think. I know "Marge" was one of them... Yes, everything has a HUD (now that the -200s are gone), but those are secondary
32 N1120A : Nice to see someone who agrees. In all this talk about yields and overcapacity in an environment where you have more people in this country than ever
33 A350 : If they can get 73Gs for a good deal, they'll certainly do it. However, they are rare on the market and probably not much cheaper than new a/c. I wond
34 Pavlin : This year I think Southwest will be the number one in RPK
35 Scorpio : Let's not forget WN already operates two second-hand 73Gs (N798SW and N799SW), so adjusting them to their standards doesn't look like it'll be a probl
36 RyDawg82 : I'd hazard a guess that 629, 645, 647 are without winglets and are slated for return to CITG at whatever time AS has planned... 648, 649 are through
37 F4f3a : There has been rumours that easyjets early leased 700s were going to be taken over by southwest possibly by the end of the year.
38 OPNLguy : One was ex-Eastwind and the other ex-BWIA (never can remember which), and standardizing the cockpits was a snap compared with the galleys. I think th
39 Kaitak744 : Uh, I am about 90% sure about this, but didn't Boeing design the 737NG cockpits so they would be modern yet have maximum commonality with older 737s?
40 STT757 : How much control over ATA does WN have, they could go back to the trade with CO (737-700s for the last four of ATA's 757-300s).
41 OPNLguy : None; all there is is a code share...
42 PavlovsDog : While slightly off topic I think buying Aloha could be a great move for Southwest. I imagine the value of the airline is less than what their aircraft
43 Dutchjet : Firstly, I dont think that ATA is ready to part with their four 753s....until ATA gets its longhaul situation figured out and replaces its L1011 with
44 N1120A : One, they are too old. Two, most newer ones would require significant refitting. It is a bit more complicated than that. They have to bring a laptop
45 Thering : They are in the same case of GOL. Wanting 2nd hand 737-700 for strong expansion while wait for their new ones but can´t find. It´s hard to think on
46 Dutchjet : 735 more modern than the 733.......not really, both are 2nd generation 737s and so much depends upon how the original operator equipped the airplane.
47 Thering : So why no 737-800 for WN?? Or even 737-900ER...
48 Dutchjet : The 738 would require an extra F/A....one F/A is required for every 50 passengers, and the 738 would carry more than 150 passengers.....so Southwest
49 Amazonphil : This is exactly the reason that CO wanted to rid of the 735 at one time and still do although not as urgently now with the 73Gs and 738s online. CO a
50 Dutchjet : CO likes its 735s better now that extra seats have been added......the big reason that CO would like to get rid of the 735s is that the lease prices
51 Amazonphil : As always, great explainations Dutchjet! Thanks for the clearer picture, I knew it was something like that but didn't know how it all worked out. I j
52 Swadispatcher : If I remember correctly, it was 657, 658, 659 and 660. I think 798 and I know 799.
53 Blsbls99 : Won't Hamburg International Airlines have a few 737-700s come up available once they start taking their Airbus A320s (or was it A319s)?
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