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BAA Controlled Airports- No Competition.  
User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

72% of airline passengers in britain start or end their journey at a BAA
controlled airport and there is a lack of choice and no competition.

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2258 times:

Discuss?

User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4042 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2171 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
72% of airline passengers in britain start or end their journey at a BAA
controlled airport and there is a lack of choice and no competition.

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"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2130 times:

Source: ACI.

72% of airline passengers in britain start or end their journey at a BAA
controlled airport and there is a lack of choice and no competition.

This corporate cartel needs to be deregulated soon.
The travelling public must demand it as well.
BA/LHR/Bermuda2 needs to be broken up and let competiition reign supreme.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2123 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
72% of airline passengers in britain start or end their journey at a BAA
controlled airport and there is a lack of choice and no competition.

How would breaking up BAA provide more choice?

While I don't live in the UK, I don't believe BAA all that poor of a job. Updating an operating airport is very difficult, and when I look at what BAA is doing at Heathrow versus the MIA reconstruction, I'd have to say from a passenger standpoint, BAA does a fine job.


User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2115 times:

Competition is the way of the free enterprise system my friend.

User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2113 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 5):
Competition is the way of the free enterprise system my friend.

Yes, it is. But when there are international agreements that restrict the number of flights between countries, how is breaking up the BAA near monopoly going to make things better for UK aviation?


User currently offlineGman94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2106 times:

Well there is fierce competition between airlines in the UK already, breaking up BAA would not make it more competitve then it already is. And you can't move Edinburgh airport to London so that two companies can compete with each other effectively. LHR will always be the crown jewels and the company that own's it will always be in a dominate position.


British Airways - The Way To Fly
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5659 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2084 times:

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 7):
Well there is fierce competition between airlines in the UK already, breaking up BAA would not make it more competitve then it already is. And you can't move Edinburgh airport to London so that two companies can compete with each other effectively. LHR will always be the crown jewels and the company that own's it will always be in a dominate position.

Well true, but but you could have LHR, LGW & STN under different owners and promote compertation that way. This was one of the major critisims leveled at the BAA privatation at the time, that airports that did (at least to some extent) compete with each other were being sold as a monopoly. However even the Thatcher government sucumbed to the bigger bucks (GBP) to be made by selling it as a monopoly operator in London.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2081 times:

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 7):

So true, and that's why BA is the dominant carrier with the crown jewels at LHR. From the travelling pubic's perspective, fares would be driven lower if there was more competition thru LHR. AA, BA; etc do not want more competition here. Another monopoly is AC and BA to/from Canada which should be busted up.


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5659 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2070 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 9):
Quoting Gman94 (Reply 7):
So true, and that's why BA is the dominant carrier with the crown jewels at LHR. From the travelling pubic's perspective, fares would be driven lower if there was more competition thru LHR. AA, BA; etc do not want more competition here. Another monopoly is AC and BA to/from Canada which should be busted up.

A??? How do you come to this conclusion from the fact that all three London area airports are owned by BAA???

Realistically, with different owners LGW & STN would be promoting them selves as alternatives to LHR, and would, we may assume, have some succes. This very well may attract some traffic from LHR, but reduce LHRs domaniance, to a major extent, I doubt. At least with BII still in place, but even then both LHR & LGW remain slot constrained.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2065 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 9):
So true, and that's why BA is the dominant carrier with the crown jewels at LHR. From the travelling pubic's perspective, fares would be driven lower if there was more competition thru LHR. AA, BA; etc do not want more competition here. Another monopoly is AC and BA to/from Canada which should be busted up.

That has nothing to do with BAA.



So airlines will suddenly flock to Gatwick and Ryainair will start flying from Heathrow if it was sold to MAG?

Can we have some more intelligent discussions?



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

a european hub needs to be developed on continental europe which would eliminate a lot of the passenger shuttling back and forth to an island hub (lhr).

User currently offlineRTFM From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 4 weeks ago) and read 1993 times:

Sigh...

OK BOE773 clearly has a downer on BA (and all things British..) but, here we go:

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 3):
BA/LHR/Bermuda2 needs to be broken up and let competiition reign supreme.

BA needs to be broken up? Why? And what has that got to do with BAA owning a large number of UK airports. They aren't the same company... And as you point out in one of your other nonsensical threads, BA's short-haul operation is going to disappear in the face of FR and the other LCCs, so hardly any point in 'breaking them up'... sarcastic 

LHR needs to broken up? Huh???

Bermuda 2? Has absolutely nothing to do with BAA's ownership of a majority of UK airports.

If you think that there is genuine reason for breaking BAA's near monopoly of London airports fine, but try to introduce some logical and rational arguments rather than just turning it into another anti-BA/all things British rant.

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 9):
From the travelling pubic's perspective, fares would be driven lower if there was more competition thru LHR.

Probably, but again, the restriction on competition between the UK and the US is because of Bermuda 2 and not because BAA happens to own LHR, LGW and STN.

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 9):
Another monopoly is AC and BA to/from Canada which should be busted up.

OK, that would be a duopoly then.... And who exactly is going to 'bust this up'? And why? The only reason that BA and AC are the only carriers between LHR and Canada is because they are the only ones who want to at the moment. There is absolutely nothing to stop VS (who had a flight to YYZ for a short period), BD or any other UK or Canadian carrier flying LHR (or any other UK airport) to Canada. Again, BAA's ownership of UK airports is completely unrelated to your utterly nonsensical statement.....

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 12):
a european hub needs to be developed on continental europe which would eliminate a lot of the passenger shuttling back and forth to an island hub (lhr).

Huh????? By who? Sorry, but have your ever heard of CDG, AMS, FRA (do I need to go on??).

Oh good grief.....


User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1918 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 9):
Another monopoly is AC and BA to/from Canada which should be busted up.

Gee, I thought they had an open skies agreement. While I don't see WestJet or bmi rushing to enter the market you cannot consider two airilines that compete heavily to be a Monopoly. If fact it is likely that the degree of competition between these two is one of the factors that deter others from entering the market.

btw - why are now flying the Canadian flag? Didn't you have an Irish one the other day? (I also note that your user profile is (not) very imformative). If you aren't a Canadian or a Canadian resident, which I suspect - would you kindly reveal your true spots? Thank you.


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1909 times:

Quoting RTFM (Reply 13):
Sigh...

OK BOE773 clearly has a downer on BA (and all things British..)

Damn right he does.

Its obvious in the short time that he has been here that BOE773 does not like BA or Britain in general. Pretty much the only posts he has made is slagging off BA, LHR, Rolls Royce, BAA, Farnborough, etc. He contributes hardly anything else to any other thread.

things certainly aren't perfect here - but he doesn't seem to be highly critcal of anywhere else other than this country. no criticsm of US legacy carriers, etc.

His remarks shows he knows nothing about BA or British aviation and the pettiness and lack of knowledge of the subject shows he either has a grievance towards the UK or BA and has to resort to childish remarks on a.net or he works for another carrier - which i would find very hard to believe.

My money is on him having applied for a job and got rejected myself.

Either way somebody of his age needs to grow up.


some examples.....

World's Worst International Airport For Delays. (by BOE773 Jul 12 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2873290

RE: BA 747-400 (3 Of Them In YVR In One Day) (by BOE773 Jul 23 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2894455

Will RR Be Reduced To Subcontracting? (by BOE773 Jul 13 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2877143

Ryanair Will Trump BA? (by BOE773 Jul 23 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2894064



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineBOE773 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1812 times:

Can't take some good old criticism fellas?
You all are so hi on your hosses about BA and RR that you're losing sight of the others out there. Well I guess it's about all you've got now! I just get sick and tired of all the useless BA threads on airliners.net.


User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1771 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 9):
pubic's

Didn't now pubes went on journeys with airlines, di they carry them in the cargo hold of AC aircraft?


User currently onlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26488 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1759 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Thread starter):
72% of airline passengers in britain start or end their journey at a BAA
controlled airport and there is a lack of choice and no competition.

Look, you seem to be some sort of Ryanair plant or the like, similar to the user who was named Eos757 pitching EOS when they were starting up. Anyway, my issue with BAA isn't their monopoly per se, it is the fact that a private company is running an inherently governmental entity. The LAWA model is a much better one and one that actually benefits consumers, airlines (LAX has the lowest fees of any major hub airport) and the government alike. The whole PPP thing in the UK has served to do nothing but increase costs to the public while maintaining subsidized profit margins from the national government. What should be done is the airports be taken over by local authorities (the London airports by TfL for example) and the rails reintegrated into a governmental yet quasi-private company like Die Bahn.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSteve7E7 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 476 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1742 times:

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 16):
I just get sick and tired of all the useless BA threads on airliners.net

So do we, only you seem to keep posting them.


User currently offlineTheSorcerer From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 1048 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1720 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 10):
How do you come to this conclusion from the fact that all three London area airports are owned by BAA???

What about Luton and London City?

Dominic



ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5659 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1694 times:

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 20):
What about Luton and London City?

Neither of which has the runway length or space to mount serious compertation to LHR< LGW or STN.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3023 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1565 times:

Luton has submitted plans for a 3000m runway to be built before 2012 and the current runway will no longer be used, similar to runway 26R/8L at LGW. This also includes a new terminal and apron to south of the current runway, which will be capable of handling 30 million pax a year.

If these plans do happen and are built this will provide London with an alternative to the three other major BAA airports in the London area.

But if airlines really want to switch to LTN really remains to be seen and I am not really all that optimistic. But may offer other airlines that do not currently fly to the London area an option of airports to fly to, especially if they fly larger equipment which LTN cannot currently handle.


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