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Air NZ To Fly To South Africa  
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12603 times:

I understand from friends in South Africa that Air New Zealand is in the final stages of completing plans to fly from Auckland to Johannesburg.

If this is correct it would explain a number of different fleet and route developments.

I presume that the current daily Auckland-Perth 767 would be extended to Johannesburg three times weekly using the spare 747-400 which will be coming off the AKL-LAX-LHR run in January. (That service reduces to a 777 in October, but becomes a 747 again for the Christmas holiday season).

We have seen that Air NZ has done well with its "traditional markets" (the LHR, LAX and SFO services) but has suffered badly in Asia. South Africa more closely resembles a traditional market, but only 4 engine aircraft can fly the route, meaning that 777 services aren't going to happen.

Japan, Taipei, Bangkok, Bali and now even Singapore have failed as Air NZ routes. It looks as if the airline is now consolidating its focus on the UK, USA, Australia and South Africa (although I noted that Mr Fyfe also mentioned Japan and Hong Kong, which is touching but naive).

84 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNZ560 From New Zealand, joined May 2006, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 12590 times:

Quoting Koruman (Thread starter):
although I noted that Mr Fyfe also mentioned Japan and Hong Kong, which is touching but naive

Air NZ has already stated that they will be flying AKL - Hong Kong - LHR early in October.



-OJL RIP Also to the 7 onboard
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1717 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 12484 times:

this is news to us kiwi's lol's seems odd tho for two 'star alliance ' airlines to run head to head on this route , tho be able to get more info when i return to NZ next week. rummer was it that 1 ,744 was to be parked up at akl, and that India was getting a look at too.


CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12474 times:

I also heard that it wasn't being considered at this stage due to SAA recent entry into the Star Alliance. Would be awesome if NZ did do it tho.


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12402 times:

That would be awesome if they would although South African has the proper planes for the route with the A340s. It would be interesting to see it as South African is now in Star Alliance. How big of a market is this? I would guess that there is some tourism, but I'm not that familiar with that part of the world.

PS. 3000 posts on Airliners.net!!! Wahoo.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineHKGKaiTak From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12353 times:

So is NZ trying to take a slice of the PER-AKL market or are there really that many Seth Effrikkans over in NZ? (NZ can't really feed from other Australian ports ...)


4 Engines 4 LongHaul
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12309 times:

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 5):
So is NZ trying to take a slice of the PER-AKL market or are there really that many Seth Effrikkans over in NZ? (NZ can't really feed from other Australian ports ...)

There are a lot of Safas living in NZ... Most of them live on the North Shore in Auckland, but there are a lot that have bought farms around the country and are doing that.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12264 times:

What would be the schedules like days of flyling e.t.c?

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 6):
Most of them live on the North Shore in Auckland

I can tell you that a hell of a lot of them live out in East Auckland in Howick and Bucklands Beach

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 5):
So is NZ trying to take a slice of the PER-AKL

To me, AKL-MEN-JNB would seem like a better route than AKL-PER-JNB as there is already another Star Alliance member flying this route. I thought NZ would have learnt it's lesson from the whole SQ and SIN incident. Even a AKL-SYD-JNB route would be better, but one route is better than none as they say.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12213 times:

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 7):
To me, AKL-MEN-JNB would seem like a better route than AKL-PER-JNB as there is already another Star Alliance member flying this route. I thought NZ would have learnt it's lesson from the whole SQ and SIN incident. Even a AKL-SYD-JNB route would be better, but one route is better than none as they say.

hmmm NZ5 LAX-AKL-MEL-JNB ? I wonder if that would claim the title for the worlds longest flight?!  Wink



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineZKNBX From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12017 times:

Quoting Koruman (Thread starter):
presume that the current daily Auckland-Perth 767 would be extended to Johannesburg three times weekly using the spare 747-400 which will be coming off the AKL-LAX-LHR run in January.

Hi Koruman. An interesting idea, but this would stuff up rerturn PER-AKL schedules, with flights operating PER-AKL twice on three days each week, with no flights on other days. Do you really think NZ would do this? Also I note the SUBSTANTIAL difference in SAA timings PER-JNB and return in Star Alliance timetable which I've based my PER - JNB & vv estimates on...

AKL-PER (est DUR: 7.15 w B744; 7.35 w B763)
PER-JNB (est DUR: 11.15 w B744)

JNB-PER (est DUR: 9.20 w B744)
PER-AKL (est DUR: 6.05 w B744; 6.25 w B763)

January dep arr

AKL-PER 1225 -1440 Mo We Fr B744
PER-JNB 1610 - 2230

JNB-PER 0140 - 1700+ Tu Th Sa B744
PER-AKL 1825+ - 0530+

AKL-PER 1425 - 1700 Tu Th Sa Su B763

PER - AKL 1825 - 0550+ Tu Th Sa Su B763


User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5525 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11940 times:

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 7):
Even a AKL-SYD-JNB route would be better, but one route is better than none as they say.

QF is already flyinh this route with a daily service but competition would be good for QF. MEL-JNB would be better for NZ.

I don't know if Air Mauritius still flies to Australia??


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5351 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11890 times:

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 10):

QF is already flyinh this route with a daily service but competition would be good for QF

QF fly 5x weekly to JNB.

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 10):
I don't know if Air Mauritius still flies to Australia??

They still fly to PER, not sure about SYD or MEL.

Anyway if this is true about NZ it would be great, maybe NZ would fly 3x weekly AKL-PER-JNB with a 744 and 4x weekly AKL-PER-BOM with a 777?

I thought NZ were going to change their PER schedules to connect to SAA flights to JNB and also from US NZ flights.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 8):

hmmm NZ5 LAX-AKL-MEL-JNB ? I wonder if that would claim the title for the worlds longest flight?! Wink

NZ already have that with NZ1/2, hehe.


User currently offlineZKNBX From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11885 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 11):
maybe NZ would fly 3x weekly AKL-PER-JNB with a 744 and 4x weekly AKL-PER-BOM with a 777?

YES - good point. If they make it DAILY one-stop via Perth, then the schedule is less likely to be messed up. This is not such a critical issue with MEL, SYD or BNE because they all have a higher NZ frequency of service. And as has been said in other postings in this forum, India is likely, in the not too distant future.


User currently offlineSA744 From South Africa, joined Nov 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 23 hours ago) and read 11758 times:

Hello All

I know that NZ1 said that South Africa was not a market that ANZ was looking into immediaetly but into the future maybe. So i dont know if that will happen now even tho it would be awesome,There have been rumours of NZ flying the JNB route for a couple of years now ,but the flight would be routed via MEL.


Chris


User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 11656 times:

Quoting Koruman (Thread starter):
Japan, Taipei, Bangkok, Bali and now even Singapore have failed as Air NZ routes

On top of Seoul.....

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 10):
I don't know if Air Mauritius still flies to Australia??

They definately do fly to Australia. MEL, SYD and PER.

Quoting SA744 (Reply 13):
would be routed via MEL.

Exactly. Why would NZ want to try and sabotage a fellow partners route after they just experienced getting sabotaged first handed by SQ? A much bigger market lies in MEL than in PER.


User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5525 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 22 hours ago) and read 11571 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 11):
QF fly 5x weekly to JNB.

thanks for that ZK-NBT i didn't know that.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 14):
A much bigger market lies in MEL than in PER.

I agree but one thing PER does have is the largest African and south african population than any other Australain city


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 13 hours ago) and read 10740 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 15):
I agree but one thing PER does have is the largest African and south african population than any other Australain city

I agree, but NZ may attract higher yields on an AKL-MEL-JNB service...



Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 13 hours ago) and read 10690 times:

How big is the expat community of Saffas in NZ anyway? Not " a lot", lets see some numbers.


The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25409 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 13 hours ago) and read 10605 times:
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Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 17):
Not " a lot", lets see some numbers.

Using Google as a starting point, the 2001 census puts the figure at 26,000:

http://www.emigratenz.org/migrants.html

The low average for annual immigration is (roughly) 2500, but it has been higher (4000 plus) in other years.

Using 2500 as the average figure, the present SA population would be at about 37,000 - but may be up to 40,000.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 13 hours ago) and read 10535 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 17):
How big is the expat community of Saffas

Saffas is or used to be a funeral parlour. South Africans will suffice, thanks....  wink 


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 9999 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
The low average for annual immigration is (roughly) 2500, but it has been higher (4000 plus) in other years.

Using 2500 as the average figure, the present SA population would be at about 37,000 - but may be up to 40,000.

mariner

and of course many of them have been having lots of kids over here although technically I guess the kids wouldn't be Safa's...  Wink

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 19):
Saffas is or used to be a funeral parlour. South Africans will suffice, thanks....

sorry Suuuuthe Arfffrikarns  Wink



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3333 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 9953 times:

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 10):
I don't know if Air Mauritius still flies to Australia??

yep. 1 x B762 to PER, and
1 x A342 MRU-SYD-MEL-MRU, increasing to 2pw northern winter 2006.


User currently offlineNZ560 From New Zealand, joined May 2006, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 9 hours ago) and read 9881 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 8):
hmmm NZ5 LAX-AKL-MEL-JNB ? I wonder if that would claim the title for the worlds longest flight?!

It could very well do but if this NZ and QF plan goes ahead for the Tasman NZ5 would stop in AKL.  Smile



-OJL RIP Also to the 7 onboard
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3333 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 6 hours ago) and read 9614 times:

Quoting NZ560 (Reply 22):
It could very well do but if this NZ and QF plan goes ahead for the Tasman NZ5 would stop in AKL

hmmm....

although NZ could always change the flight number ex-AKL, so that they do not effect the terms of the agreement...

so LAX-AKL remains NZ 5, then AKL-MEL-JNB becomes NZx55??

flight time MEL-JNB is also about 50 mins less than SYD-JNB.


SAMPLE FLIGHT TIMES?

AKL 08.00 << CONNEX FROM USA
MEL 10.00
MEL 11.20
JNB 16.30

JNB 18.00
MEL 13.00+1
MEL 14.10
AKL 19.30 << NZ002 CONNEX


User currently onlineTonyBurr From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 6 hours ago) and read 9582 times:

SAA only flies to Perth from JNB? So if you are going on to SYD, then you would not have a Star Alliance airline? Right now to do JNB-SYD on Star Alliance you have to do SQ. It would be great to have NZ do a route through Australia east coast somewhere.

25 ZK-NBT : Thats right but QF and SAA do have a codeshare arrangement in place on the JNB flights from both SYD and PER. I'd imagine they would have a schedule
26 Aerorobnz : It is a market that is always being watched, but not feasible at this time. It is not happening for the time being. There are no aircraft currently su
27 VHVXB : Yeah I reckon NZ could be very competitive on MEL-JNB route with QF doing SYD-JNB
28 Axio : The downside of this schedule is it makes connections within New Zealand pretty much impossible. Of course if the local market is purely Aucklanders
29 Motorhussy : Yep, always been my theory!
30 SA7700 : With average discounted Y-class fares in the region of AUD2000.00 on both QF and SA (JNB-SYD-JNB), these two airlines have a very cozy codeshare. At
31 ZK-NBT : Yep it does but it would offer connections from the US to PER which I have heard NZ are looking at, and have been for a while. PVG won't offer connec
32 VHVXB : Thats is bloody expensive. I was doing a search on the QF website for flights to JNB from SYD in October and the cheapest fare i saw was in excess of
33 SA7700 : Hence my theory that both QF and SA have high yields on their South Africa - Australia flights. There was once speculation on the forum that fares fo
34 VHVXB : I have to agree with you there it would be a much cheaper to fly SQ or MH to get to JNB.
35 SunriseValley : Not sure what you mean by this statement. For a twin with ETOPS180, PER-JNB only requires that you fly about 200nm off great circle ; with ETOPS 207
36 Aerorobnz : It should be made clear that NZ does not want to fly to JNB via anywhere, it wants to fly direct. Currently only the 772LR could operate the route su
37 Zkpilot : Whilst I agree with you on most things Aerorobnz, and agree that this would be ideal, I just don't see NZ doing a direct service at all. Between New
38 ZK-NBT : It was CHC-PER-JNB. Hmm so with NZ not considering the 772LR at this stage then there is no JNB in the near future. Maybe someday.
39 Zkpilot : Yeah hopefully one day... it was 27 years ago that the disaster happened... maybe in another 10 years if Y3 is a 2.5-4 engined aircraft and not just
40 NZ1 : At the time, what I stated was correct, however, a lot has changed since then. NZ1
41 Post contains images Planemanofnz : Very exciting indeed NZ1. Are you saying that South Africa stands a much bigger chance than most of us would have thought because of previous threads
42 Aerorobnz : I don't either, but that preference was stated in an inhouse publication a while back.
43 SA744 : [quote=NZ1,reply=40]At the time, what I stated was correct, however, a lot has changed since then[/quote That is very exciting indeed. I wait in antic
44 VHVXB : what do you mean. How much direct do want to be??
45 SA744 : Sorry my bad wording, would be for people who travel from MEL to JNB dont have to go via SYD or PER
46 VHVXB : Ah now i get it. I agree with you on this and it would provide QF with some decent competition to Africa
47 SA744 : Is there any indication of when they will start flying to JNB(if info is allowed to be realeased). Only because i am planning a holiday to NZ and woul
48 VHVXB : not for while i think. Why don't you try SQ or EK
49 Post contains images Zkpilot : Well the 2-3 spare 744's are free from mid October on. So whatever new route is in the planning will probably start up in November, or since the airc
50 SA7700 : If NZ should enter the South African market, I am putting my money on AKL-MEL-JNB. Rgds SA7700
51 KL808 : There's a lot of talking with routing this route through Australia. But why not route it through a south american city such as SCL, EZE, GIG or GRU? B
52 SA7700 : How many sane high-yield O&D passengers are going to fly New Zealand-South America-South Africa on routes in excess of 18000km's; when they can get t
53 SA744 : Have inside information that the MEL routing is the favourite option
54 Post contains links and images Zkpilot : It would become a significantly longer flight via South America. Australia has nicer airports than South America. NZ doesn't have many Spanish or Por
55 ZKNBX : As I said in a previous post on this forum, there is talk of a 744 wetlease (out) to a European customer, covering up to 2 a/c and this could serve a
56 Planemanofnz : This won't happen. NZ updated it's "WHOLE" long-haul fleet (except 767's of course) for a reason. That reason I can nearly almost guarantee is not to
57 ZKNBX : What I am talking about is recent communication(s) to staff. You may also wish to see the post about possible wetlease. A wetlease is not usually lon
58 SA7700 : I am pretty sure you will find that many/most South Africans in New Zealand will not be able to utter a decent sentence in Afrikaans - the majority s
59 Post contains images Zkpilot : The internal memo's I've been reading from Mr Fyfe do indicate that yes NZ does only like to take on about 2 new routes per year, but that NZ is like
60 VHVXB : i agree but the tech stop is only in one direction[Edited 2006-07-28 17:18:29]
61 NZ1 : He is talking about the staff update put out by Rob each week. ZK-SUI and SUJ, the 1st two aircraft, never had mood lighting fitted at the time due t
62 ANstar : The In the latest CEO message Fyfe explains all the complexities of oepning a new route and mentioned that their key focus is Shangahi at the moment a
63 SA744 : Well i think we will just have to wait and see what the outcome will be. ANZ seem to be doing spontaneous things at the moment. It will hopefully be a
64 777ER : I thought NZ was the only airline operating that route.
65 Zkpilot : NZ is the only one flying it direct, but a lot of people fly on QF via MEL and SYD.
66 777ER : I'm aware of the QF, DJ option etc. I thought NZ was the only direct option
67 Zkpilot : NZ is the only direct option correct.
68 VHVXB : At the moment they are only direct option like Zkpilot has said anyone who travels with QF will have to transit in SYD or MEL. I wonder if there is a
69 NZ560 : I believe a few people on here have said that maybe EK will or are looking at it if they can get the extra flights into Australia.
70 Planemanofnz : There are 2 main problems. Getting rights to operate another flight to Australia is one. And the second is trying to find more aircraft to operate th
71 MotorHussy : Star Alliance members take the NZ option, ONEworlders take the QF one. Others that don't care take the cheapest fare including the Virgin franchises.
72 NZ8800 : Any ideas how NZ have managed to escape having to compete with QF non-stop AKL-PER? And AKL-CNS too, come to that.
73 VHVXB : I thought they already had some type of agreement with the NZ govt. but at the moment they don't have the rights to have more flights to Aust. Come t
74 6thfreedom : 2:35a DXB 1 5:25p PER 1 EK 420 Non-stop 343 10:50 10:10p PER 1 5:40a+1 DXB 1 EK 421 Non-stop 343 11:30 10:05a DXB 1 12:55a+1 PER 1 EK 424 Non-stop 77
75 VHVXB : Ahh thanks for that freedom
76 Aerorobnz : EK were denied PER-AKL at the Australian end, the open skies agreement between AU-NZ would otherwise have allowed them, but the AU Govt didn't want mo
77 VHVXB : There are so many Flights between AU and NZ why does the govt still want to protect QF. QF doesn't even Fly PER-AKL
78 MotorHussy : Well, consider how many flights between AKL-MEL and AKL-SYD there are each day. Now consider how many flights there are between MEL-PER and SYD-PER.
79 ZK-NBT : Make that 6 weekly in winter and daily in summer! QF used to fly AKL-CNS, at one stage they ran a 742 or 743 on it back in the mid 1990's twice weekl
80 MotorHussy : I sit corrected, but how does that compare to the QF option? Regards MH
81 AerorobNZ : because they know they already let the EK cat out of the bag by allowing them transman rights and they cannot afford EK to get any more of the market
82 Zkpilot : They then had a 747 flying AKL-BNE-CNS (with pax clearing customs in CNS) until about 2 years ago.
83 ZK-NBT : The only QF 747 AKL-BNE about 2 years ago was the daily LAX-AKL-BNE 744 flight which certainly didn't go to CNS because the same aircraft operated th
84 Zkpilot : Perhaps it was a shuttle service similar to what is planned for AKL-CHC because I remember pax clearing customs in CNS and not in BNE and they were f
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