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NW Hunt For New Planes Includes Boeing Visit  
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3167 times:

From today's (19 Sept) Minneapolis Star Tribune:

NWA hunt for new planes includes Boeing visit

By Tony Kennedy

Star Tribune Staff Writer

Fresh from a visit last week to Airbus Industries in Toulouse, France, top executives from Northwest Airlines this week will visit Boeing Co. in Seattle for some competitive airplane shopping.

Northwest is close to deciding where to spend more that $3 billion to replace its aging fleet of long-range DC-10s. The nation's fourth-largest airline operates about 40 of the wide-bodies, primarily on international routes.

Analysts have speculated that price will be the biggest factor in the decision because both manufacturers make suitable equipment. NWA management team might make a tentative deal soon and present it for board review and approval by the end of this month.

"It will be a real competition between Boeing and Airbus," Richard Anderson, Northwest executive vice president and chief operating officer, told employees in his weekly telephone hot line message. Anderson said the contest is between Boeing's big twin-engine 777 and Airbus' A330 or A340.




An unexamined life isn't worth living.
59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNwa747-400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1337 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2871 times:

Thanks for the update.

I guess we'll find out who the winner is soon enough. Dear God make it Boeing and the 777!!!!

I think they'll go 777 becuase that way the long haul fleet will be all boeing and the short haul will (eventually) be mostly airbuses and dc9s.

I know this topic has been discussed over and over so I will leave it at that. I am still very excited to see the outcome none the less.

Trent


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2838 times:

Hey Trent: are you in "Chambana"?? That's my old stomping grounds. I deduced from your e-mail address.


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6485 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

I think they will get the 777 because of what Nwa747-400 said and because the 777 has better seat mile costs then the Airbuses. The 777 also would allow for growth and could replace 747-200Bs on less travelled routes. I can't wait to see what they will decide to get. The777Man


Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly...T5, CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineN312RC From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 2682 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2811 times:

Personally, I dont care what it is!! I will be happy with any new model they decide to purchase. Being around DTW all my life, and seeing the same models year in and year out has gotten really boring. I just hope for something new!


Fly Delta's Big Jets!
User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2804 times:

Another good replacement for Northwest's DC-10s is the 767-400 with the P&W 4000 series engines like their 747-400s have.

User currently offlineAirCanadaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

The only reason they're talking to Airbus is to keep Boeing honest.

Pat


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12398 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

Tedski has a point about the 764; might we see NWA being one of thge first 764ERX customers? However, I would still see the vast majority of the deal going to the 777.

Don't forget that although the reports speak of a need to replace the DC10s (which is quite accurate!), the 747 Classics aren't getting any younger. Many of the 747-200s operating across the Atlantic (about 17 of them) are over 20. The 772 would be an ideal DC10 replacement and the ER/LR models would allow some interesting new long haul routes and increased frequencies, but the 773ER would also be a welcome 742 replacement in due course.

Anyone want to put his neck on the line and make a prediction?

Let me start with 18 772ER/LR, with about 20-25 options. Going once . . .


User currently offlineNwa747-400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1337 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2752 times:

The DC10 of which NW has about 40 will all be 777-200s. They can operate these on both international and domestic trips just like they do with the DC10. It would be just the same as United who uses a 777 for say a ORD-IAD and then have the same plane fly IAD-CDG. Nw uses lots of DC10s to the west coast so I am pretty sure that is what they will do with 777.

Also,the 777 will all be most likely be a mix of 200s and 200ers.

Prolly 20 777-200s and 20 777-200ERs.

Now for the 747-200s. I think we will see more 747-400s join the fleet. They will probably spilt the 747-200s to half -400s and keep the newer -200s around for a few more years.

The 767-400 is not a player. It has not been mentioned at all by NW. But it would be nice for them to get some mainly becuase of the 2-3-2 layout in coach...but its not in the running.

I think that is all I wanted to say.

Oh yea...TWFirst...I am in Champaign!!!!


User currently offlineAdria From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

Please make it AIRBUS!!!!!

User currently offlineTan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1903 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2681 times:

Since we are all guessing, unless someone is a mind reader, I'll add my guess to the pile!

For better flexibility & growth, I think they will order a mix of 764,764ER,772,772ER.
A mix would give the ability to add more seats to Europe in the summer, and put them into warmer markets in the winter.
With the price of fuel, its a real balaning act to guess what future business will be like, and yet, not "over buy" capacity. Capacity=weight. weight=fuel burn.

So probably a mix of 10-15 of each. We may not know the exact breakdown until later. They might buy delivery positions
and determine the model as they go along.


User currently offlineAvion From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 2205 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2673 times:

I believe AI will win. Airbus is really keen on this order so they will do everything to get it! And the performance of both planes A340-500 and 772LR is totally similar. This one is wide open but AI has been working closely with NWA and i believe AI will win!

Avion


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2667 times:

Help me out folks. Unless the numbers are rearranging themselves on my computer screen, I read the following:

Anderson said the contest is between Boeing's big twin-engine 777 and Airbus' A330 or A340.


So how is it that some of y'all are coming up with 767's? Do you think NW's COO is lying... or the media misquoted him... or NW will suddenly change its mind... or... what?

I'm betting on the 777. Strategically, it makes sense for a number of reasons.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2661 times:

Doesn't NWA aready have an order on the books for Airbus A330's that has been deferred indefinately? If they do decide to buy the 777 there may be some wrangling over this initial order, or they may just convert it to additional A320's, or else have to pay penalties to Airbus. My guess is that if NWA is now serious about buying the A330, they may be using discussions with Boeing as a means of wringing additional concessions out of Airbus.

It'll be interesting to see which way this falls, though my unbiased gut feeling is that it will be the A330.



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39660 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2656 times:

My God I hope they go with the A340!

There are no US A340 operators yet!
I think the A340 is the most beautiful aircraft to come out over the last 10 years. I think the Northwest livery would look great on an A340.  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAdam84 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1400 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2622 times:

If they do get 777's or A330's or A340's do yall think they will go all out and put PTV's at every seat, and/or get a new seat design.

User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

I agree that a RR Trent 500 powered A340-500/600 would look terrific in Northwest colors. I still think maybe the P&W 4000 series powered A330-200/300 or 767-400 will be the right replacement for the DC-10s.

User currently offlineUSAirways737 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1026 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2606 times:

Hopefully, they would be ruined in terms of in flight service if they didnt.

User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

Huh???


Didn't understand your post, USAirways737. Do you mean they will be competitively disadvantaged if they don't replace their DC10's soon?



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineAirCanadaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2589 times:

My initial feeling is pretty much the same as Kaitak, that Northwest Airlines will go with 16-22 Boeing 777-200ER, with options on another 25-30. They'll convert their A330 order to A320s.

The Airbus is a nice aircraft, but the B777 is far and away a superior product. Without a doubt, the finest commercial aircraft flying the skies.

Pat


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2590 times:

Never mind. It just occurred to me you were referring to the installation of the PTV's. Sorry!


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineBoeing747-400 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2577 times:

I think a 777 would be better for NW for 747 replacement!!

Go BOEING!!

Please make it be Boeing and the 777!!

I'm pretty sure it will be Boeing, considering NW's fleet of Boeings.

Rgds,

B744


User currently offlineNwa747-400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1337 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

The old A330 order was converted to A320/A319s already.

I am sure they will go out and buy the pTVs and new seat design. Basically all the airlines are doing that.

Does Co's 777 and 767s have PTVS? Just wondering.

They really need to get the "winged headrest" if nothing else!!! KLM is redoing it's "Tourist Class" to include winged headrests so I think we will see NW follow along.

Trent


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7967 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2546 times:

You know, I still wonder why NW is still pursuing the A333/A343 or 772/772ER.

I ask this because NW is NOT ETOPS maintainance certified.

Unless NW drastically upgrades their maintainance practices, I have serious doubts about NW buying either the Airbus or Boeing "jumbo twins." Given that many airlines are giving up on the MD-11, why not have NW buy 25 MD-11's from SR, CI and KLM second-hand and have them completely overhauled to NW standards? That way, NW will have a play that can fly MSP or DTW to NRT non-stop, and can also fly as far as MSP-HNL easily. And all without an expensive upgrade for ETOPS maintainance procedures.


User currently offlineSammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1689 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (13 years 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2545 times:
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Well, NW will just have to wait a year and GET ETOPS certified. It's pointless to sit around and not be. Besides, the A340NG will have to be maintained to ETOPS standards, so even if they did buy a 4 engine aircraft, they would need to upgrade their maintainance.

I mean come on, how long is NW going to live without being ETOPS certified? May as well just get it done and over with.

Sammy


25 N-156F : The way I see it, NW will go either Boeing or Airbus. The secondhand MD-11 idea seems to be out of the picture now. I believe that NW, which is active
26 Tupolev154B2 : I really hope that Airbus wins this one since I would like to see one more U.S. airline become an operator of Airbus widebodies. However, I believe th
27 Post contains images We're Nuts : I know it would be stupid, but don't you think an NWA 737-900 would look awesome?
28 Post contains images BH346 : We're Nuts:Yeah, it would be pretty cool Too bad it probably won't happen As a Northwest passenger,I hope they go Boeing on this one. I really think t
29 Flaps : My thoughts: The DC-10 fleet is used for domestic, transatlantic and transpacific operations. The 777 is too big for NW domestic ops, perfectly suited
30 We're Nuts : Technically, the 777 was made to be perfect for long-range routes, but also make money on short routes (i.e. Denver to Chicago). This was one of the m
31 Adam84 : Why do you say the 777 is too big for domestic operations, their 10's hold almost 300 passengers and thats about the same for most other 2 class 777's
32 NWA Man : NW will only choose one or the other. There will not be a mix, and there will not be a 767-400, as much as I would like to see that beautiful metallic
33 L-188 : One thing that isn't being talked about is that the EURO is falling against the dollar...I think it is down to about 80 cents or so now.... That means
34 The777Man : Airbus sells their planes in US dollars so the falling Euro wouldn't really make much of a difference in Airbus price. The777Man
35 Udo : Apart from the Euro or Dollar question, I think NWA will go for the best price as both the B777/B767 and A330/A340 would fit into their fleet. But I f
36 Nwa747-400 : The DC10s hold about 281 pax 34/247 according to the website. The 777 is about the same in a two class config. which NW would do. The 777 would work g
37 AmtrakGuy : "I ask this because NW is NOT ETOPS maintainance certified." Can anyone explain to me what this all about ETOPS Maintanance Certified? I read a lot of
38 TEDSKI : If Northwest goes for the 777-200ER, what engine selection will they go for? I think they will go for the P&W 4084 engine like United has on it's 777
39 Nwa747-400 : Yeah...they will go777 and they will go P&W
40 UA777 : AmtrakGuy, Here's a good article regarding ETOPS maintenance programs. http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_11/archive.html Go to Aero 7
41 Sammyk : If Northwest were to buy 777s, and if the LR's are in their future, it would be wiser to go with GE90s. Why have a mixed fleet of engines? Granted, th
42 TEDSKI : Hi Sammy, because Northwest & Japan Airlines were the only customers to order the 53,000lb thrust P&W JT9D powered DC-10 series 40 model, to increase
43 Boeing747-400 : NW 737-900 would be awesome!! I agree BH346, the 777 does look better.
44 Sammyk : Tedski, yes I know why Northwest has GE powered DC-10s, just making a note that they do indeed currently have a mixed fleet, and replacing it with yet
45 TEDSKI : Then you agree that it is not good for current 777-200ER operators that have either P&W 4084s or Rolls Royce Trent 800 series engines to go for the GE
46 Hamlet69 : Udo, I think this is the first time we've agreed on anything: no matter who wins, they will probably not make any money on the deal. TEDSKI, Just a co
47 AmtrakGuy : UA777, Thanks....I got it...printed out...will study it carefully..hopefully I will get the picture. Thanks. David
48 Sammyk : Tedski, no I don't really agree with that, at least not with your logic. You are suggesting that, since the 777X has GE90s only, that airlines should
49 LH423 : I don't care what they get, just so long as there is finally an equipment change to NW38/39, BOS-AMS. A330, 767-400, or the 777, it doesn't matter, ju
50 TEDSKI : I have a question for everybody. If Boeing gets many orders for the 777-200ER with either the P&W 4084 or 4090 and the RR Trent 800 series engines ins
51 Post contains images N-156F : GE has an exclusive agreement on the B777-300 with it's GE90. This was likely a bad move on Boeing's part, as several airlines that purchased GE90s on
52 Sv11 : The deal will probably come down to price. Boeing will probably price the 777 at a premium (but how much??) over the A340. I think its between the 777
53 Fjnovak1 : Whatever the choice, it will be weird not seeing so many DC-10s mulling about Detroit Metro.... I think delivery positions will have a big effect...wi
54 TEDSKI : I think Northwest will go for the 777-200ER with the P&W 4090 engines.
55 Sammyk : Tedski, first of all, PW and RR aren't really developing engines for the 777X. Second, what difference does it make how many regular 777s are bought?
56 TEDSKI : Sammy what do you make of the new 747X? Could Northwest consider going for this instead of the 777?
57 Joni : The low euro makes a difference especially _because_ Airbus sells in dollars. They make the planes in Euros, so for a fixed price in dollars they can
58 Sammyk : Tedski, I don't think the 747X could take the place of a 777X. Are you talking about the 747-400X? The 747X can seat 430 and travel over 10,000 miles.
59 TEDSKI : The 747-400X with 10,000 mile range will be terrific for some of Northwest's Pacific routes like from Detroit to Tokyo or Minneapolis/St. Paul to Chin
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