TWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51 Posted (14 years 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3212 times:
From today's (19 Sept) Minneapolis Star Tribune:
NWA hunt for new planes includes Boeing visit
By Tony Kennedy Star Tribune Staff Writer
Fresh from a visit last week to Airbus Industries in Toulouse, France, top executives from Northwest Airlines this week will visit Boeing Co. in Seattle for some competitive airplane shopping.
Northwest is close to deciding where to spend more that $3 billion to replace its aging fleet of long-range DC-10s. The nation's fourth-largest airline operates about 40 of the wide-bodies, primarily on international routes.
Analysts have speculated that price will be the biggest factor in the decision because both manufacturers make suitable equipment. NWA management team might make a tentative deal soon and present it for board review and approval by the end of this month.
"It will be a real competition between Boeing and Airbus," Richard Anderson, Northwest executive vice president and chief operating officer, told employees in his weekly telephone hot line message. Anderson said the contest is between Boeing's big twin-engine 777 and Airbus' A330 or A340.
The777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6570 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (14 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2867 times:
I think they will get the 777 because of what Nwa747-400 said and because the 777 has better seat mile costs then the Airbuses. The 777 also would allow for growth and could replace 747-200Bs on less travelled routes. I can't wait to see what they will decide to get. The777Man
Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
N312RC From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 2682 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (14 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2856 times:
Personally, I dont care what it is!! I will be happy with any new model they decide to purchase. Being around DTW all my life, and seeing the same models year in and year out has gotten really boring. I just hope for something new!
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12475 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (14 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2823 times:
Tedski has a point about the 764; might we see NWA being one of thge first 764ERX customers? However, I would still see the vast majority of the deal going to the 777.
Don't forget that although the reports speak of a need to replace the DC10s (which is quite accurate!), the 747 Classics aren't getting any younger. Many of the 747-200s operating across the Atlantic (about 17 of them) are over 20. The 772 would be an ideal DC10 replacement and the ER/LR models would allow some interesting new long haul routes and increased frequencies, but the 773ER would also be a welcome 742 replacement in due course.
Anyone want to put his neck on the line and make a prediction?
Let me start with 18 772ER/LR, with about 20-25 options. Going once . . .
Nwa747-400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1337 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (14 years 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2797 times:
The DC10 of which NW has about 40 will all be 777-200s. They can operate these on both international and domestic trips just like they do with the DC10. It would be just the same as United who uses a 777 for say a ORD-IAD and then have the same plane fly IAD-CDG. Nw uses lots of DC10s to the west coast so I am pretty sure that is what they will do with 777.
Also,the 777 will all be most likely be a mix of 200s and 200ers.
Prolly 20 777-200s and 20 777-200ERs.
Now for the 747-200s. I think we will see more 747-400s join the fleet. They will probably spilt the 747-200s to half -400s and keep the newer -200s around for a few more years.
The 767-400 is not a player. It has not been mentioned at all by NW. But it would be nice for them to get some mainly becuase of the 2-3-2 layout in coach...but its not in the running.
Tan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1909 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (14 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2726 times:
Since we are all guessing, unless someone is a mind reader, I'll add my guess to the pile!
For better flexibility & growth, I think they will order a mix of 764,764ER,772,772ER.
A mix would give the ability to add more seats to Europe in the summer, and put them into warmer markets in the winter.
With the price of fuel, its a real balaning act to guess what future business will be like, and yet, not "over buy" capacity. Capacity=weight. weight=fuel burn.
So probably a mix of 10-15 of each. We may not know the exact breakdown until later. They might buy delivery positions
and determine the model as they go along.
Avion From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 2205 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (14 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2718 times:
I believe AI will win. Airbus is really keen on this order so they will do everything to get it! And the performance of both planes A340-500 and 772LR is totally similar. This one is wide open but AI has been working closely with NWA and i believe AI will win!
Ctbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (14 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2706 times:
Doesn't NWA aready have an order on the books for Airbus A330's that has been deferred indefinately? If they do decide to buy the 777 there may be some wrangling over this initial order, or they may just convert it to additional A320's, or else have to pay penalties to Airbus. My guess is that if NWA is now serious about buying the A330, they may be using discussions with Boeing as a means of wringing additional concessions out of Airbus.
It'll be interesting to see which way this falls, though my unbiased gut feeling is that it will be the A330.
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
TEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (14 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2658 times:
I agree that a RR Trent 500 powered A340-500/600 would look terrific in Northwest colors. I still think maybe the P&W 4000 series powered A330-200/300 or 767-400 will be the right replacement for the DC-10s.
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8017 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (14 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2591 times:
You know, I still wonder why NW is still pursuing the A333/A343 or 772/772ER.
I ask this because NW is NOT ETOPS maintainance certified.
Unless NW drastically upgrades their maintainance practices, I have serious doubts about NW buying either the Airbus or Boeing "jumbo twins." Given that many airlines are giving up on the MD-11, why not have NW buy 25 MD-11's from SR, CI and KLM second-hand and have them completely overhauled to NW standards? That way, NW will have a play that can fly MSP or DTW to NRT non-stop, and can also fly as far as MSP-HNL easily. And all without an expensive upgrade for ETOPS maintainance procedures.
Sammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (14 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2590 times:
Well, NW will just have to wait a year and GET ETOPS certified. It's pointless to sit around and not be. Besides, the A340NG will have to be maintained to ETOPS standards, so even if they did buy a 4 engine aircraft, they would need to upgrade their maintainance.
I mean come on, how long is NW going to live without being ETOPS certified? May as well just get it done and over with.
: The way I see it, NW will go either Boeing or Airbus. The secondhand MD-11 idea seems to be out of the picture now. I believe that NW, which is active
: I really hope that Airbus wins this one since I would like to see one more U.S. airline become an operator of Airbus widebodies. However, I believe th
27 We're Nuts
: I know it would be stupid, but don't you think an NWA 737-900 would look awesome?
: We're Nuts:Yeah, it would be pretty cool Too bad it probably won't happen As a Northwest passenger,I hope they go Boeing on this one. I really think t
: My thoughts: The DC-10 fleet is used for domestic, transatlantic and transpacific operations. The 777 is too big for NW domestic ops, perfectly suited
30 We're Nuts
: Technically, the 777 was made to be perfect for long-range routes, but also make money on short routes (i.e. Denver to Chicago). This was one of the m
: Why do you say the 777 is too big for domestic operations, their 10's hold almost 300 passengers and thats about the same for most other 2 class 777's
32 NWA Man
: NW will only choose one or the other. There will not be a mix, and there will not be a 767-400, as much as I would like to see that beautiful metallic
: One thing that isn't being talked about is that the EURO is falling against the dollar...I think it is down to about 80 cents or so now.... That means
: Airbus sells their planes in US dollars so the falling Euro wouldn't really make much of a difference in Airbus price. The777Man
: Apart from the Euro or Dollar question, I think NWA will go for the best price as both the B777/B767 and A330/A340 would fit into their fleet. But I f
: The DC10s hold about 281 pax 34/247 according to the website. The 777 is about the same in a two class config. which NW would do. The 777 would work g
: "I ask this because NW is NOT ETOPS maintainance certified." Can anyone explain to me what this all about ETOPS Maintanance Certified? I read a lot of
: If Northwest goes for the 777-200ER, what engine selection will they go for? I think they will go for the P&W 4084 engine like United has on it's 777
: Yeah...they will go777 and they will go P&W
: AmtrakGuy, Here's a good article regarding ETOPS maintenance programs. http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_11/archive.html Go to Aero 7
: If Northwest were to buy 777s, and if the LR's are in their future, it would be wiser to go with GE90s. Why have a mixed fleet of engines? Granted, th
: Hi Sammy, because Northwest & Japan Airlines were the only customers to order the 53,000lb thrust P&W JT9D powered DC-10 series 40 model, to increase
: NW 737-900 would be awesome!! I agree BH346, the 777 does look better.
: Tedski, yes I know why Northwest has GE powered DC-10s, just making a note that they do indeed currently have a mixed fleet, and replacing it with yet
: Then you agree that it is not good for current 777-200ER operators that have either P&W 4084s or Rolls Royce Trent 800 series engines to go for the GE
: Udo, I think this is the first time we've agreed on anything: no matter who wins, they will probably not make any money on the deal. TEDSKI, Just a co
: UA777, Thanks....I got it...printed out...will study it carefully..hopefully I will get the picture. Thanks. David
: Tedski, no I don't really agree with that, at least not with your logic. You are suggesting that, since the 777X has GE90s only, that airlines should
: I don't care what they get, just so long as there is finally an equipment change to NW38/39, BOS-AMS. A330, 767-400, or the 777, it doesn't matter, ju
: I have a question for everybody. If Boeing gets many orders for the 777-200ER with either the P&W 4084 or 4090 and the RR Trent 800 series engines ins
: GE has an exclusive agreement on the B777-300 with it's GE90. This was likely a bad move on Boeing's part, as several airlines that purchased GE90s on
: The deal will probably come down to price. Boeing will probably price the 777 at a premium (but how much??) over the A340. I think its between the 777
: Whatever the choice, it will be weird not seeing so many DC-10s mulling about Detroit Metro.... I think delivery positions will have a big effect...wi
: I think Northwest will go for the 777-200ER with the P&W 4090 engines.
: Tedski, first of all, PW and RR aren't really developing engines for the 777X. Second, what difference does it make how many regular 777s are bought?
: Sammy what do you make of the new 747X? Could Northwest consider going for this instead of the 777?
: The low euro makes a difference especially _because_ Airbus sells in dollars. They make the planes in Euros, so for a fixed price in dollars they can
: Tedski, I don't think the 747X could take the place of a 777X. Are you talking about the 747-400X? The 747X can seat 430 and travel over 10,000 miles.
: The 747-400X with 10,000 mile range will be terrific for some of Northwest's Pacific routes like from Detroit to Tokyo or Minneapolis/St. Paul to Chin