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4 Northwest A320s Being Scrapped At Greenwood, MS!  
User currently offlineIslandHopperCO From Micronesia, joined Dec 2003, 225 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 21260 times:

According to the Mojave Airport Yahoo discussion group, where plane scrappings are discussed, Northwest is scrapping four A320s, at the Greenwood, MS scrapyard where they have dismantled their other unwanted planes (DC9s, DC10s, 747s) in the past. N302US, 306US, 307US, 308US are in the process of being scrapped. Two were built in 1989 and two in 1990.

I'm sure the reason for this is that NWA got out of the leases on these aircraft through bankruptcy, and their actual owners found it more economical to scrap them. It still seems very strange to see a 16 year old NWA plane scrapped while DC9s much more than TWICE their age are still flying with the same airline!

Many undamaged 737-300s, 400s, MD80s, 757s and 767s have been scrapped recently as well. Are we now in an era where airframes are only built to serve (and financed for) 15-20 years, and scrappings like this will be common?

[Edited 2006-07-24 18:47:07]

91 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7525 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 21235 times:

Are there any Greenwood sites.

I am trying to get details of NWA DC10-40's last seen there in 2005.


User currently offlinePeterinlisbon From Portugal, joined Jan 2006, 489 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 21235 times:

I imagine that we're heading that way. With fuel prices going up so quickly, it is cheaper for airlines to buy a new aircraft that uses less fuel than to continue to operate and maintain an older plane.

User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 21158 times:

Quoting Peterinlisbon (Reply 2):
it is cheaper for airlines to buy a new aircraft that uses less fuel than to continue to operate and maintain an older plane.

Not really. If that were the case we would see another 3,000 airframe order year. How is it cheaper to pay $73,000,000 for a new plane (737-700) plus crew, fuel, mx, etc?

You would have to save one hell of a lot of fuel and mx to make up the $73,000,000 purchase price or extra monthly lease payments.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineWarreng24 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 20950 times:

These might have been very high cycle A320's. The cost of a D-Check might have been uneconomical.

Maybe D-Checks for the old DC-9's are so cheap that it's actually economical to keep around?

You know what I mean? You see it all the time in the Southwest USA. The landscapers and construction workers all drive around in ancient 1970-1980's era Chevrolet and GMC pickups (with the famous 350 small block). They suck gas like no tomorrow and pollute the air like crazy, but they're so cheap and easy to repair!


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7407 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20766 times:
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Quoting IslandHopperCO (Thread starter):
I'm sure the reason for this is that NWA got out of the leases on these aircraft through bankruptcy, and their actual owners found it more economical to scrap them. It still seems very strange to see a 16 year old NWA plane scrapped while DC9s much more than TWICE their age are still flying with the same airline!

The next generation Airbuses aren't built as rigidly as athe older airliners were built. They were designed for one carrier to use them for on average 15 years before they're scrapped, which is the main reason why so many are being scrapped. It's more economical to retire the old ones and buy new ones which is why they're cheaper than the 737's. They're good aircraft for quick, cheap operations which is why more LCC's go for them(mostly overseas) and 737 loses out in the LCC camp. WN has a nice base of 737's simply becuase they started with the 737. If WN started today, they most likely would've gone Airbus. It's not surprising that we're retiring them now, it compensates for the reduction in domestic capacity. My feeling is Boeing will target the A319/320 customers in the next year for a replacement.

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 4):
Maybe D-Checks for the old DC-9's are so cheap that it's actually economical to keep around?

Well, the DC9's aren't cheap anymore since the cost of fuel is going up, which why were retiring them in increasing numbers.

Quoting IslandHopperCO (Thread starter):
Many undamaged 737-300s, 400s, MD80s, 757s and 767s have been scrapped recently as well. Are we now in an era where airframes are only built to serve (and financed for) 15-20 years, and scrappings like this will be common?

The the 737-300/400/500's were killed off by the Next-Generation 737's, and those weren't converted to freighters, are scrapped.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineAcidradio From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20751 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Well think of it this way - how many of us here regularly drive 16 yr old cars? I know, apples & oranges comparison, but still, you could rip the thing down to the frame and rebuild it, but it's uneconomical. So you go buy a new one and make the payment on it, which in the long run may be more cost effective. Old planes tend to break more, use more fuel, etc. Why spend the money to keep something old when you can get a new one for probably not that much more nowadays (especially with the price of fuel!) and which is less likely to break (and cause delays/cancellations, and anger the customers...).

This goes to show once again that when NW Airbuses go to the scrapyard, the pilots who flew them there will come home on a NW DC9  Wink



Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
User currently offlineStarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20691 times:

The joke about the crew of the last NWA A320 dropped off to be scrapped getting picked up by a DC-9 is a little closer to reality......


Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20599 times:

You probably have a well number crunched combination of factors as to scrapping:
The tax laws as to a/c leasing
Heavy checks due
Day to day mx costs
Cycles and/or hours on a given a/c
Engineering as to lifetime designed usable cycles/hours
High values for used parts
High values for scrap aluminum, titanium and other materials used in a/c
High operating costs
Residial/used value of an a/c


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6747 posts, RR: 77
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20533 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
The next generation Airbuses aren't built as rigidly as athe older airliners were built. They were designed for one carrier to use them for on average 15 years before they're scrapped, which is the main reason why so many are being scrapped.

"One carrier and an average of 15 years" - who told you that? Air France hasn't retired a single A320-100 yet (the oldest built in 1987), and most of them have always been used on short domestic sectors. Also, the upcoming A320 freighter conversion program indicates there's more life in the frame than often suggested.

And no, it's not "many" which have been scrapped so far - only seven (including the four NW frames), out of a total of more than 1500 active A320s.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
It's more economical to retire the old ones and buy new ones which is why they're cheaper than the 737's.

A32X series aircraft are not necessarily cheaper.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
They're good aircraft for quick, cheap operations which is why more LCC's go for them(mostly overseas) and 737 loses out in the LCC camp.

Both B737 and A32X series aircraft are capable of quick & cheap operations. There's no clear preference of LCCs or legacy carriers for one of the two families.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
My feeling is Boeing will target the A319/320 customers in the next year for a replacement.

Which ones? Most A320 and B737NG customers will wait for the successors of these families.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
The the 737-300/400/500's were killed off by the Next-Generation 737's, and those weren't converted to freighters, are scrapped.

They haven't been killed off yet - they're still very popular as used frames, e.g. there are hardly any B735s and B734s available. The number of scrapped B733/735/735 is still marginal.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineAirMailer From United States of America, joined May 2006, 465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20441 times:

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 9):
There's no clear preference of LCCs or legacy carriers for one of the two families.

FWIW... I think that Boeing recently commented that 737s are used by something like 75% or 80% of all LCCs throughout the world.


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7525 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20428 times:

How did they define LCC, also is it by number of aircraft or carriers?.

User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10677 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20395 times:

Boeings forecasts a dramatic rise in premature scrappings over the next years due to the steep rise in fuel prices. Boeing predicts that 9600 aircraft will be retired over the next 20 years (while 3 times as many will be build!).

Surely quite a number of relatively young airplanes like these 4 NWA A320s will be among the condemned ones.


User currently offlinePavlin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20395 times:

A320 being scraped? That is just plain stupid. I wonder why nobody buys them. They could be converted to cargo. How much is the cost to purchase one?

User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1556 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20365 times:

I think that the huge discounts given on new aircraft by both manufacturers must be a factor.

Ruscoe


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7525 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20346 times:

Given that we are talking NWA, they are probably well worn.

Aviation Letter 472 indicates as follows;

N307US 49,931Hrs/21946 Cycles
N308US 49,291Hrs/21760 Cycles

Does anyone know when the next D Check was due?.


User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20320 times:

Quoting IslandHopperCO (Thread starter):
Many undamaged 737-300s, 400s, MD80s, 757s and 767s have been scrapped recently as well. Are we now in an era where airframes are only built to serve (and financed for) 15-20 years, and scrappings like this will be common?

Combination of factors... D check looming, Lessors are fully depreciated in 15 years and the parts market is booming for A320 parts that don't have to come from Airbus. Just like parts on a car, only to the 12th power. The scrapping of the airplane is probably much more profitable than re-leasing it and a lot less risky. lol


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2174 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20295 times:
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Perhaps it's because the currently built A320s have lots of modifications that the 1988-1990-builds do not have, making the older airframes more complicated to fly next to newer aircraft...? Hence, no other airlines want them.


Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineLotsamiles From United States of America, joined May 2005, 323 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20269 times:

I would venture that these aircraft may have been rejected back to lessors thru the ch. 11 proceedings, have been stored for long time and have a lot of outstanding maintenance (perhaps engine work) required in order to get them airworthy again.

The owner is stuck between a rock and a hard place because they either have to renegotiate with NW for a new lease at a very low rate or they have to shop the aircraft around in the market. If they find a new lessee then the owner will have to pay for all of the maintenance required (NW was released from this liability by the judge). The owner then cannot get the numbers to work for a new lease (competing with other airworthy aircraft at the same lease rates) and they simply decide to sell the aircraft for scrap to cut their losses.

This is not an indication that the A320 is not fuel efficient or in demand, just the sad reality of the ch 11 rulings that stick it to the creditors. As for conversion to cargo, the A320 conversion program will not be ready until 2011 and by then there will be many more aircraft around to convert and the maintenance on these airframes will still need to be paid by someone.

Regards,
Lotsamiles


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20269 times:

Quoting IslandHopperCO (Thread starter):
N302US, 306US, 307US, 308US are in the process of being scrapped. Two were built in 1989 and two in 1990.

While these are young airplanes to be scrapped, its proabably a combination of factors that resulted in this decision, the most important of which is that the owners of these airplanes determined that it would be extremely difficult to find new operators for these very early build A320s and the airplanes are probably in need of expensive heavy maintainance. Storing an airplane for a prolonged period of time is an expensive proposition.

Sometimes airplanes that are 15-20 years old are worth more in parts than they are worth as a whole.....with the huge number of A320s of various ages in service worldwide, I am sure that the parts pulled from these four airplanes are quite valuable.

This decision has nothing to do with the A320 or Airbus in general....its purely a financial decision.

Quoting IslandHopperCO (Thread starter):
while DC9s much more than TWICE their age are still flying with the same airline!

Most of the NW DC9s are paid for in full with no payments, thats why they remain in service at NW (but maybe not for much longer). The new Airbus planes that were returned were leased airplanes......NW returned airplanes where lease rates were considered too high and/or lessors were unwilling to renegotiate the terms of the lease (typical procedure in bankruptcy). NW was probably unwilling to pay high rates for these older A320s.

Quoting IslandHopperCO (Thread starter):
Many undamaged 737-300s, 400s, MD80s, 757s and 767s have been scrapped recently as well

I think that using the word MANY is an overstatement......a few 737 2nd generation airplanes have been scrapped, mainly because they were airplanes with the older mechanical cockpit which airplanes are extremely difficult to place in the second hand market.....they were also high circle birds in need of heavy maintainance. Again, the decision to scrap an airplane is a financial, not an emotional decision. To my knowledge, very very few 757s have been scrapped, and only a few 762s have become coca cola cans.

Quoting IslandHopperCO (Thread starter):
Are we now in an era where airframes are only built to serve (and financed for) 15-20 years, and scrappings like this will be common

I think you are jumping to a conclusion here......we are talking about 4 airplanes out of thousands manufactured being scrapped. The vast majority of A320s, MD80s, 737s and 757/767s build in the 1980s are still in revenue service.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
The next generation Airbuses aren't built as rigidly as athe older airliners were built. They were designed for one carrier to use them for on average 15 years before they're scrapped

I am sorry to disagree, but I am not sure what your basis for this statement is? I am a Boeing guy, and even I cannot accept that Airbus produces airplanes not designed for more than 15 years of use......while the Airbus airliners may not be as tough as the old airplanes from McD that could basically fly forever, Airbus products are designed with a long product life in mind. Again, we are talking about 4 airplanes here......a financial decision was made to break them up. Lets not overgeneralize.


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7525 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20269 times:

http://www.memphisgrp.com/dismantle.htm

Strangely these A320-211 are not mentioned.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6747 posts, RR: 77
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20269 times:

Quoting AirMailer (Reply 10):
FWIW... I think that Boeing recently commented that 737s are used by something like 75% or 80% of all LCCs throughout the world.

If that refers to the total number of aircraft, then the B737 is clearly ahead because of WN alone.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6370 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20147 times:

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 4):
You see it all the time in the Southwest USA. The landscapers and construction workers all drive around in ancient 1970-1980's era Chevrolet and GMC pickups (with the famous 350 small block). They suck gas like no tomorrow and pollute the air like crazy

In at least two Southwest cities I'm aware of, ELP and ABQ, they are required to meet the same emissions requirements that they were when new. Besides, the equivalent Fords were built better anyways, and you see just as many on the road  duck 



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20059 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
If WN started today, they most likely would've gone Airbus. It's not surprising that we're retiring them now, it compensates for the reduction in domestic capacity

I dunno. With their flying into smaller airports and insane numbers of cycles, the rugged 737 is probably a good choice for them either way. They've had ample opportunity to buy Airbus A320, but for what WN does, 737 works well for them.

Quoting Acidradio (Reply 6):
This goes to show once again that when NW Airbuses go to the scrapyard, the pilots who flew them there will come home on a NW DC9 Wink

Which simply continues to prove that the Douglas DC-9 is simply the finest airliner ever built. NW is scrapping and parking A320s and A319, but those DC-9's keep flying, go figure. They keep talking DC-9 retirement, but with no firm timeline, it may be a while.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 9):
And no, it's not "many" which have been scrapped so far - only seven (including the four NW frames), out of a total of more than 1500 active A320s.

They have a number of A319 and A320's parked however. Expect them to scrap more is my guess.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 9):
A32X series aircraft are not necessarily cheaper.

Apples to apples sticker prices, the third generation 737s do cost more up front.

Quoting Pavlin (Reply 13):
A320 being scraped? That is just plain stupid. I wonder why nobody buys them. They could be converted to cargo. How much is the cost to purchase one?

They weren't needed for cargo, they were due for major service work, and A320 parts are worth more than old A320s at the moment. In all honesty, I'm not sure how happy NW was with the durability and reliability of their A320 fleets. I've had more delays on NW A320s than DC-9s. Whether that is the plane or NW maintance, I don't know. Could just be dumb luck, but it's not like NW to throw out anything........ some of their DC-10-30s have nicely over 100,000 hours on them, and are still going.

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 15):
N307US 49,931Hrs/21946 Cycles
N308US 49,291Hrs/21760 Cycles

Does anyone know when the next D Check was due?.

...given the number of hours on those, maybe at 50,000?



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6747 posts, RR: 77
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19970 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 23):
They keep talking DC-9 retirement, but with no firm timeline, it may be a while.

With increasing fuel prices, the number of DC-9s will rapidly decrease.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 23):
They have a number of A319 and A320's parked however. Expect them to scrap more is my guess.

No, there aren't many more A320s stored - and the A319s are already destined for other operators.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 23):
Apples to apples sticker prices, the third generation 737s do cost more up front.

No airline pays list prices - when A and B fight for a customer, prices are very similar.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
25 FlyDreamliner : I said a number, I didn't say many. The fact they have any sitting in the desert is amazing given the number of DC-9s they have flying. I've heard th
26 Brons2 : I'm a member of the same group, and the reasons for the scrappings were given on the group by a NWA dispatcher. 1) The planes had only 166,000 MTOW,
27 PlaneHunter : Most likely Ch.11 is the cause - the DC-9s are owned, while many A32X are leased. I wouldn't be so sure - they're currently down to around 102 from 1
28 Post contains images Nitrohelper : PlaneHunter,reply=24]With increasing fuel prices, the number of DC-9s will rapidly decrease. When do you think NWA will have all their DC-9s retired ?
29 DeltaDC9 : I dont think so. It has to happen to some. I think a lot of posters have answered the question, but I think that the underlying question is about the
30 PlaneHunter : Sounds strange - from what I have read NWA only operates -211 (CFM56-A1) and -212 (CFM56-5A3) models, all with the same MTOW. More exactly, 29 out of
31 Bobnwa : Northwest has not flown transcon since it closed its BOS hub many years ago.
32 PlaneHunter : I guess the comment refers to "almost transcons" like DTW-SFO which may take longer than five hours. PH
33 BR715-A1-30 : HA!, The DC9-10s were retired with upwards of 100,000 hours Yeah, Comparing NWs older A320s and Frontier's newer A319s, the A320 family has gone thro
34 Breiz : Interesting but to my knowledge these planes are in Northwest's books, not leased. Do you have the name of the lessee/bank/financial institution whic
35 M404 : I am curious as to who decided on Greenwood as the dismantling site. If ther were owned by NWA then it's very understandable as a long established con
36 Nwafflyer : Acidradio -- love your post This goes to show once again that when NW Airbuses go to the scrapyard, the pilots who flew them there will come home on a
37 Post contains images AirbusA6 : Rogue A320 models may be scrapped for spares, as there are lots of current users needing spare parts. The same doesn't apply to DC9s as nobody else us
38 Oroka : What about insurance costs of operating a older/high hour aircraft that would be more prone to equipment failures simply due to its age? Could a high
39 FL370 : ya the planes might of had a lot of cycles, to the point were scrapping them was the only way to save money on maintanence and such. sad to see such a
40 FlyDreamliner : The A319's in the desert have been there since before NWA went into Ch. 11 I believe. NWA's parked fleet alone is pretty large. In Minneapolis alone
41 Post contains links Burnsie28 : Ok, one thing here, something isnt right, no reason why N302NW is being scrapped, it had it's D-check about a year ago, because its in the new livery,
42 Brons2 : correct.
43 PSU.DTW.SCE : Some people don't get it: -NW DID NOT DECIDE TO SCRAP THESE AIRCRAFT. IT WAS THE LEASING COMPANY!!!!! During Ch. 11, NW renegotiated aircraft leases,
44 Jetjack74 : It's just my opinion, which obviously differs from yours. My point is, that a higher-time A320 is less likely to get as much attention on the 2nd han
45 PlaneHunter : Airbus did so to break into certain markets, and they were able to due to lower production costs. Though, after Boeing reduced production costs that
46 Jetjack74 : Greenwood/Leflore is home to a company called, The Memphis Group, which is a salvage company that NWA buys remanufactured parts from at wholesale pri
47 Aviator27 : Are we now in an era where airframes are only built to serve (and financed for) 15-20 years, and scrappings like this will be common? You hit the nail
48 PlaneHunter : Numerous A300 and A310 operators would certainly disagree. PH
49 Dl_mech : Contrary to A.net belief, new liveries and D-checks do not go hand in hand. At several airlines, planes are painted on a specific schedule.
50 Bennett123 : Jetjack74 From TMG's website, it seems that the DC10-40 is gone now.
51 Post contains images RIHNOSAUR : hi, just a friendly response to your comment Acidradio, you probably are right on this on many instances .... yet , I will say that you have to be car
52 Post contains images Nitrohelper : You could say it's a " DC-9" kind of car!
53 Post contains images JBirdAV8r : Lots of 70's-vintage A300 and A310s are in safe, reliable use all over the world.
54 Burnsie28 : And According to NW on an employee newsletter when the new livery was announced was that planes would only get repainted during their major maint. IE
55 Isitsafenow : Were you referring to freighters that get only two cycles a day? That's a different ballgame than the narrow body airbuses that do four, five or more
56 Post contains images KELPkid : Wait 'til the engine loses the front seal and takes out the timing belt in the process (like my wife's '92 accord wagon did recently...) $1000 repair
57 Post contains links PlaneHunter : Many of the old A300 and A310 had already served on medium and short haul routes for a long time prior to freighter conversion. The oldest A320-100s
58 RayChuang : Those NW A320's are being scrapped probably because their airframe life cycles has reached the end of their operational lives. We're talking some of t
59 Post contains images LX23 : Wow... Funny to see how some people will pull out broad, sweeping statements without any relation to facts in order to grasp at any straw that they c
60 PlaneHunter : Numerous of AF's A320-100s (6 frames on domestic short haul use only) have probably accumulated much more cyles than NW's oldest A320-200s (medium &
61 Isitsafenow : Thats a nice post with nice info, but the bottom line is that A320's are getting beer canned and the NGs aren't. I respect your knowledge and stateme
62 Post contains links and images Bennett123 : View Large View MediumPhoto © Bruce Leibowitz View Large View MediumPhoto © Bruce Leibowitz View Large View MediumPhoto © Bruce Leibowi
63 EI321 : If the airline owns the aircraft, like NW owns the DC9s & 10s, and has no payments to make on them, then they will work out more affordable than leas
64 PSU.DTW.SCE : Do you know how many 737-200's & DC-9's have been parted out to support those aircraft types that are still in service - a lot. Again, there is a hug
65 Post contains images LX23 : I'd like to thank Bennett, because his post allows me to make this one wonderful statement - all credit for it goes to him: A picture is worth a thou
66 F14ATomcat : One word.... Corrosion and the fear thereof.
67 Post contains links and images IslandHopperCO : Bennett123 makes a good point...Boeings and MDD planes seem to get axed at a young age just as much as the Airbi. It's a purely financial decision. 19
68 Isitsafenow : Note the Southwest 737, or whats left of it, in the above photo. Here we go... That plane was built in June of 1980 for LADECO..went to HP in April of
69 AMSSFO : Note the US B737, or whats left of it, in the last of the photos Bennett123 showed above. Here we go... That plane was built in October of 1988 for Pi
70 PSU.DTW.SCE : Guys, this arguement makes no sense, as you could go back on forth by citing cases for specific aircraft. There is no basis for this A vs B claim. It
71 Cfalk : (A vs. B bash hat on) Just goes to show that an old DC-9 was far better built than a new(er) Airbus. (ducking for cover)
72 Post contains images Isitsafenow : I was using the SW bird...you the USAirways bird... we can do this all day and night long... you win I win you win I win etc etc game over.. outcome.
73 DeltaDC9 : Yes, but they had to be due to the location of the engines, and the different design philosophy. I think history has shown tha the MD designs are by
74 PlaneHunter : Corrosion of the A320s? Have you read the whole thread yet? You haven't read the thread, right? PH
75 AMSSFO : Great, you got my point. discussion closed
76 N801NW : Accroding to Bankruptcy Court documents, the lessor on record was a company called Eaganbail, G.I.E. based in France.
77 Post contains images Nitrohelper : France! ! ! More "free or low profit" planes from Airbus? Must have been used to switch NWA over to the Euroguys.
78 NA : Does anybody know how many NWA A320s were delivered in the old 70s livery (only that the natural silver parts on Boeing were dull grey on the A320)? I
79 Burnsie28 : N302US is not a leased plane, so I don't think its the one. Also, before the new lease agreements, NW was paying $600,000 a month to lease the OLDEST
80 Breiz : Thanks a lot, N801NW, appreciated.
81 Nitrohelper : Are there DC-9s getting scrapped for parts, or are they just "junk" because of no spare parts demand ? I saw pictures of about 40 planes (NWA-9s) sitt
82 IslandHopperCO : NW is gradually retiring the DC9s as they come up for major checks. The engines and some other components still have some value on the used market, bu
83 Post contains links 3201 : I've been told that even N301US didn't ever operate a revenue flight in that scheme, they repainted it to the "bowling shoe" scheme after delivery bu
84 Breiz : You two most probably mean N401UA?
85 Post contains images 3201 : I meant N301US: Not sure why you think we might mean N401UA, what is the relevance?
86 Breiz : Oups! I'm guilty of mixing Northwest and United !! Apologies. Back to your question: I have a slide of N303US in old white stripe cs at TLS prior to
87 3201 : It was NA's question, but interesting to me too, thanks for the info! So we know 3 or 4 were painted in the old colors.
88 Lijnden : So we can see the first NWA A330's retire in about 10-12 years? (probably before the DC-9...). Would scrapping some A330's or B777 now be good busines
89 Prebennorholm : Not 100% accurate. The engines were CFM56-5A instead of the later -5B model. The -5A is rather similar to the CFM56-3 on the 737-300/-400/-500 except
90 Post contains links and images DTW757 : This is really sad that an airplane not even 20 years old is being scrapped out. All four have been de-registered with the FAA. Any news if any of the
91 VV701 : BA became a launch customer for the 320 when they took over BCal on 14 April 1988, just 14 days after BCal had taken delivery of the second 320 to be
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