Thering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0 Posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5452 times:
I'm a frequent AA's business class flyer and really think they should improve it! The seat are old, have poor reclining, and in many planes the individual light is broken (ex. 777 flying GRU/MIA and the 777 flying GRU/JFK).
Paul From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 374 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4885 times:
I personally think the seat is nothing to rave about, for a number of reasons;
1. Why would you want to be able to move the seat closer to the seat in front, its basically boxes you in and reduces the seat pitch and personal space, that guy looked rather claustrophobic when he moved it forward, his face and body was no more than a foot and a half away from the seat back of the seat in-front.
2. The seat is no way wide or long enough, especially for the Americans. This is an American Airline, not Chinese! Americans are the biggest flyers in the world, in terms of height and size. No offence guys, I love Americans but that seat will not be wide enough for the heavier set customers. You saw the size of the black chap in the video, he was in good shape and his shoulders were wider than the seat. So imagine if an obese person tried to fit into one of those things. (The seat looks very similar to the product for Cathay Pacific, and is only really suitable for average height flyers. I should know I flew in J with them and found the legroom inadequate and felt like my feet were trapped. (I am 6ft 3inch)
3. Yet again, an airline installs an angle lie flat seat, when customer satisfaction levels for angle lie seats are not exactly great.
4. Unless they want all of those nice IFE systems broken after the first week I would mount them on the wall infront. What happens when someone drops the damn thing? Its a laptop basically, and they certainly wont have the Titanium bomb prove case that some Laptops do.
5. And lastly the tray table is not even flat. So what that its slightly bigger, tray tables in a any new business class are adequate to write an essay or use ones laptop.
Go back to the drawing board AA because your product I think will not shape up!
Quoting Paul (Reply 9): personally think the seat is nothing to rave about
Quoting Paul (Reply 9): Go back to the drawing board AA because your product I think will not shape up!
Maybe you need to sit in it first, before you pass judgement. Worked on this plane once and passengers like the new seats. A vast improvement on our current one. Sean from SAN ... tell us what type of biz class seat HP has ... that's right they don't.
Paul From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 374 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4849 times:
Are you mad?! Just look at all the things that are wrong with it. Besides that pax who said they liked it, probably just did not want to offend you. Why would anyone want to pay through the nose for a product that does not appeal to them? One reason why BA Club World attracts new customer, is because new flyers already know that the seat is one of the best there is before they get onboard.
You have to consider how long that product is going to be around. AA wont be able to afford to update their J Class for at least 10- 15 years firstly because of the way the market is shaping up for the future (high price of fuel) and because of the amount of debt yet to pay off. Airlines should be evaluating what strengths and weaknesses they have in the onboard product and making compromises where possible. For example, Thai and Malaysian have the best service in the sky so they can get away with having a lie flat J- Class seat. AA, although I am sure you personally are a good FA, certainly do not have the best F/A's (my personal experience) and should offer a better seat in order to counteract the shortfall in other elements of their product.
Quoting Paul (Reply 11): Why would anyone want to pay through the nose for a product that does not appeal to them?
Because it is still an upgraded product from American's current J offering, and it is still definitely light years ahead of Y on a 10-hr flight to Europe or South America.
In addition, what I think some here are forgetting is that one of American's major concerns in designing this seat was not only designing it for revenue customers, but also for frequent flyer upgraders. AA is commonly regarded and consistently rated as one of the best U.S. carriers for getting frequent flyer awards, and also as one of the bests for upgrades for FFs and VIPs. AA does not want this to change, because they have watched other airlines' FFs ditch those carriers as F cabins shrunk and upgrades dwindled.
So, that is why AA made the choice not to go with the full-out, flat-bed experience seen on BA and a few others. In addition to not wanting to canabalize their already-fairly-good F (especially Flagship Suite) product with the fully-flat beds in First, AA did not want to remove six seats from the cabin, shrinking J from 30 down to 25 seats. On many, many of these 767's flights, that would pretty much make the difference between a 5-million-mile Executive Platinum AAdvantage member getting upgrades to clear or not.
So, AA compromised by giving all customers (including FFs) an upgraded product, with a seat that is nearly-flat, and has other fairly good features, like an adjustable tray table, upgraded and movable PTVs, upgraded meals, duvets, etc.
AA is not as stupid as some of you might think: they are fully aware that given the choice between a worldwide-competitive J product that's impossible to upgrade into and an only-marginally-competitive J product that can be upgraded into with some frequency, many, many AA FFs (many, many of whom are extremely important and valuable to the company) would choose the former. So perhaps their decision was made with FFs interests in mind more than some here have indicated.
Longhornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3509 posts, RR: 43
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4508 times:
Quoting Bphendri (Reply 13): I personally think AA is nothing to rave about. Both times I have flown on American Airlines I have been had just TERRIBLE customer service experiences.
I will NEVER fly them again if I can avoid it.
Two times is certainly not enough times to make a statement like that. I've been flying AA as my prefered airline for 17 years, and that is, in large part, due to the customer service. Just check out my trip report if you want a feeling as my experiences.
You must have a short memory. You asked this very question less than a month ago and got the correct answer (even with a real life photo) that yes, AA does have plans to change its business class product:
Quoting Paul (Reply 9): The seat is no way wide or long enough, especially for the Americans.
It's longer than most (6'4" or 195.5 cm), including BA's (wider, too), which gets lots of complaints from taller pax.
Quoting Paul (Reply 11): You have to consider how long that product is going to be around. AA wont be able to afford to update their J Class for at least 10- 15 years firstly because of the way the market is shaping up for the future (high price of fuel) and because of the amount of debt yet to pay off.
According to an article in The Wall Street Journal, the seats will pay for themselves in two years and have a planned life of 5 or 6 years.
I'm not saying these seats are perfect (they're not), but perhaps we should try 'em out on a long-haul flight before making assumptions as to their comfort.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 34118 posts, RR: 70
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4190 times:
Quoting Paul (Reply 9): 2. The seat is no way wide or long enough, especially for the Americans. This is an American Airline, not Chinese! Americans are the biggest flyers in the world, in terms of height and size. No offence guys, I love Americans but that seat will not be wide enough for the heavier set customers. You saw the size of the black chap in the video, he was in good shape and his shoulders were wider than the seat. So imagine if an obese person tried to fit into one of those things. (The seat looks very similar to the product for Cathay Pacific, and is only really suitable for average height flyers. I should know I flew in J with them and found the legroom inadequate and felt like my feet were trapped. (I am 6ft 3inch)
Yet another perfect example of how pictures don't proove one thing. Not only are AA's new biz class seats longer than BA's, they are wider, by a significant three inches. Any other dimensions or comfort features you'd like to incorrectly guess based on a picture?
UAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4178 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20): Yet another perfect example of how pictures don't proove one thing. Not only are AA's new biz class seats longer than BA's, they are wider, by a significant three inches. Any other dimensions or comfort features you'd like to incorrectly guess based on a picture?
I have not flown on AA for some time and dont really intend to but what i would say is that BA's J seats may be flat, but your right, they are narrow and uncomfortable for the bigger guy out there!
Pilot3033 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4165 times:
Quoting Bphendri (Reply 18): I'm sorry, ONE bad customer service experience is enough to make a statement like that, either outside the aviation bussiness or inside it.
A company is there to serve it's customers, plain and simple. If they fail to do that, they will loose their customers bussiness, as they have lost mine.
I'm with you in that the service industries in the U.S. have gone to shit (Wal Mart/Southwest effect). Bottom line is the only important thing, blah blah cattle, blah blah. In this world of crappy service however, I see (at least in the U.S.) a few dirty diomonds in the rough; AA and COA.
American may not have the world best service, but they are good at what they do, and know how to keep people comming back. Now, don't get me wrong I've had my fair share of trouble (try waiting 1h 45m for your bags @ JFK after comming off LAX-JFK), but overall AA have given me nice F/As, timely service, clean aircraft (despite what some midwest local news channels might have you think), good FF upgrades, nice lounges, and again freindly staff from the check-in to the baggage claim*.
While one bad experiance can leave a bad taste in your mouth, it should never put you off something completly, you never know when someone is off, or if something will change that may make the whole thing a lot better.
*regarding my baggage dely at JFK: as I understand it, the ground staff was understaffed during rush hour and priority was put on outbounds rather than getting bags to the claim. This is a song sung by every service industry so AA is not exempt, I just find they handel it better most of the time.
BDL2STL2PVG From China, joined Jun 2006, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4117 times:
I am one of those people that actually thought the current Biz seats were relatively comfortable. The only real gripe I had was that the legrest would not come up higher off the floor - it was only a few inches at best above the floor. Modifying that, even in the short term, would be an inexpensive way to make at Biz experience on the 777s (now flying some ultra-long routes) more acceptable.
The new seats do look tight, but looks can be deceiving. Also, I have no idea how tall the models are (nor do I know how tall W senior is) but the height of the seatback top certainly looks shorter than on the current seats. It seems that people of average height will always need to raise the headset for support (at least AA doesn't force you to lower the headrests for every take-off and landing as UA does).
My biggest concern is the entertainment system. It seems like a patch job with there being cords (headsets?, power?) visible in the photos inviting some exiting over the aisle seat to trip and take the whole player with them! Hopefully in the 777s the headsets and power system will be fully integrated into the system as it is today. Maybe on the 767, since each seat was not already wired for video, this was a consideration. I am looking forward to trying it to experience the real deal. Insofar as the current passengers giving it good reviews, have they run the new interior a/c on any overseas routes yet - that will be the big test form the discerning Business class customer. If I was getting on a domestic flight - even the Hawaii runs - I would probably be impressed, but the real money will be made with the intercontinental runs, those are the key customers.