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Sounds Like A Job For A.net  
User currently offlinePosti From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 106 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4173 times:

Saw this on Reuters and thought some of us could help them out:

Mystery plane fuels Somalia war fears


Image from story

I'll let you guys run with this one.

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirwave From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1117 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4107 times:

Looks like an Ilyushin IL-76 to me.

From the database:


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Havlik
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dmitriy Pichugin



IL-76 Wiki


Airwave  eyebrow 



When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7567 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4090 times:

Looks like a civil not military, (no RWR at base of rudder).

I can't make out the flag on the tail.


User currently offlinePosti From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4052 times:

I agree its definitely an IL-76, its the tail that is throwing me off. To me it appears to be a green flag that may have a white mark on it, similar to the flag of Libya or Pakistan. Do we know of a white IL-76 with a green rectangle on the tail? Could it possibly be one of these birds repainted?


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Photo © Rob van Ringelesteijn


[Edited 2006-07-27 02:14:29]

User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7567 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4001 times:

Is there writing on the nose behind the cockpit?.

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3941 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Well, I've just looked through a LOT of Il-76 photos, and can't find a single one with that flag on the tail. I'm stumped.




2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3840 times:

I might be crazy when looking at that tail but instead of a traingle what about a star, a very common shape on a flag.

Quoting Posti (Reply 3):
To me it appears to be a green flag that may have a white mark on it, similar to the flag of Libya or Pakistan.

Libya is solid green no stars or marks

Pakistan has a cresent and star.


This flag is long and look closely. That mark is large and off center. Due to the lighting and surroundings it can appear green and faded.



But the DPRK's IL-76s have red lines down the length of the fuselage and Air Koryo written on them. The Flag would be backwards too. Politics comes into play to sovle this mystery. What countries with IL-76s would do a supply run to help an Islamist regime fight a war against a US established government? Not Russia, Not a former Soviet Republic, Not Libya, Not China...too much to loose in relations. The DPRK doesn't care.

Other option: Former Soviet aircraft just acquired by someone. Former USSR flag still on but the cheat lines removed? That would give you the pattern a solid field.

Who acquired EX-032 (cn 073411331)?



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3797 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):
can't find a single one with that flag on the tail

Only one close is from Ilavia.

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Unmuth-VAP



But Ilavia has large text on the body.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3794 times:

If the aircraft in the photograph is involved in any type of illegal or suspicious activity that might draw the attention of other nations, would it not be possible that the aircraft be "camouflaged" to keep its origin a secret?


A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3772 times:

More pix:

From CNN


somalinet.com

EDIT: Here's a larger photo:



EDIT: The flag on the plane is Kazakstan's Read here
Or here
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Zege - FAP


Amazing what 10 minutes worth of google research can do, huh...  sarcastic 

[Edited 2006-07-27 09:11:13]

User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3703 times:

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 9):
Amazing what 10 minutes worth of google research can do, huh...

Damn that Google!!!! I guess I didn't have the right words.

The plane shown from the database was written off in 1996 after an accident in Delhi.

No article mentions a Khazakstani plane. They would have mentioned it. The plane came from Eritrea. The registration is in the wrong place in the AP photo and the database photo. Is it that plane?

[Edited 2006-07-27 09:53:56]


Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3694 times:

Quoting Centrair (Reply 10):
That leaves the non-aviation question. What is Khazakstan doing running weapons?

Or more correctly:

What is some shady company using a Khazakstan-registered airplane doing running wepons?



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3659 times:

After reading the article...

Quote:
It was a military cargo plane branded with Somali flag on its tail and we could see trucks going under the airplane to unload it from far distance outside the airport, despite it was foggy and raining in the area, it was too dangerous to go more closer to airport.

Somali Flag


Khazakstani Flag


Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 11):
What is some shady company using a Khazakstan-registered airplane doing running wepons?

You will notice I edited my previous post after looking at the above database photo. "UN-76435 (cn 1023413428) W/O 12-Nov-1996 when it was involved in a mid-air collision with Saudia 747 HZ-AIH near Delhi, India

The plane is not from Khazakstan. It is Somali. Somali Military. Now we just have to find a picture in the Database.

[Edited 2006-07-27 10:05:09]


Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3643 times:

Quoting Centrair (Reply 12):
The plane is not from Khazakstan. It is Somali. Somali Military. Now we just have to find a picture in the Database.

Now the next interesting question is: where did the plane depart from before it was spotted in Mogadishu?



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3625 times:

Air Kazakhstan (9Y) went tits up in 2004. Best piece of proof I've found so far
And there was an investigation to corruption:

Quote:
A special joint commission made up of governmentofficials and parliamentarians is going to be created in the near future to investigate the causes of the bankruptcy of former state airline Air Kazakhstan, Civil Aviation Committee Chairman Almatbek Mambetov announced. The Majilis, the lower house of Parliament, has urged the creation of the commission to determine whether the government – or elements in it – intentionally bankrupted the state airline.

Mambetov declined to discuss that issue, but he did note that some 2,000 of Air Kazakhstan’s 2,300 employees have already found new jobs, mostly with local airlines.

Air Kazakhstan suspended operations in February 2004. According to the Ministry of Transport, as of January 2004, Air Kazakhstan had racked up KZT 7.882 Billion in debts, including KZT 6.388 Billion owed to domestic entities and KZT 1.544 Billion to foreign entities. Air Kazakhstan had assets worth KZT 5.474 Billion. (Golden Eagle Partners)

Kazakhstan Investment

A timeline of the airline

So the question is, where did the 9Y Il-76s go?

Here's a nice shot of UN-76374 in 2005 doing relief runs for Iraq on behalf of the UN.
But that wouldn't be the plane in question.

Look at the Il-76 users:

Quote:
Civil
Aeroflot, Iraqi Airways, Libyan Arab Airlines, Syrian Arab Airlines, Reem Air, Volga-Dnepr, AirBridge Cargo Silk Way Airlines, UNHAS

Military
Algeria, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, China, India, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Russia, Syria, Ukraine, Jordan has also announced the purchase of 2 Il-76 aircraft.

Answers.com- sorry for a wikipedia type of souce.

Plenty of suspect countries that would be sympathetic to the Union of Islamic Courts.
BBC News- with map


So! Who all acquired Air Kazakhstan's old Il-76s?

[Edited 2006-07-27 10:31:22]

User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3612 times:

Quoting Centrair (Reply 12):
The plane is not from Khazakstan. It is Somali. Somali Military. Now we just have to find a picture in the Database.

Ok, I just have to ask, how does a country that hasn't had a central gov't since the 1990s get an Il-76?

EDIT:

Quote:
An AP reporter watched the plane land Wednesday, but Islamic officials quickly ordered journalists to leave. The plane's tail carried a flag from Kazakhstan, a former Soviet republic that often makes its planes available for charter.

-W-RAL

Quote:
Somalia's virtually powerless government charged on Wednesday that the Ilyushin-76, only the second flight to land at Mogadishu International Airport in a decade, was packed with land mines, bombs and guns. It said the shipment had come from Eritrea, which supports the Islamic militia that has seized the capital along with most of southern Somalia.

So there's the suspected orgin, for now...

Quote:
Wednesday, an AP reporter watched the Ilyushin-76 land, but was quickly ordered to leave by Islamic militiamen. The plane's tail carried a flag from Kazakhstan, a former Soviet republic that often makes its planes available for charter.

And some pretty damn close wording to W-RAL
Both quotes from The Washington Post


One final thing, I am not trying to mislead anyone by the pictures I have posted, but rather I am trying to show how damn similar the tail art on the photojournalist's pictures from Somalia are extremely similar to the tail art of some Air Kazakhstan Il-76s.

[Edited 2006-07-27 10:45:40]

User currently offlineBakestar From Australia, joined Sep 2005, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3567 times:

Can anyone recognise any of the symbols/letters of the rego?

Perhaps there is a list of newly (since the time 9Y would have sold its assets) registered Il-76, then work our way down the list.

Just a thought.



fly'nhi
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3542 times:

Nosedive... Damn good research.

Kind of interesting how the AP reporters and the WP reporters claim the Khazakstani flag but Somali net news claims it was a Somali Flag branded IL-76.

Quoting Bakestar (Reply 16):
erhaps there is a list of newly (since the time 9Y would have sold its assets) registered Il-76, then work our way down the list.

Good thinking.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7567 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3481 times:

The only Air Kazakhstan IL76 that I can are ;

UN76371 (1033414485)
UN76374 (1033416520)

Happy hunting.


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7567 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3226 times:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/5224108.stm

They are back for a second run.


User currently offlineAPChris From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

Hi Folks, I'm new to the board and here for rather "mercenary" reasons.  Wink I work for the AP in Nairobi and I edited those stories and photos. Indeed it was a Kazakh flag on the tail, but pretty badly faded so some Somalis thought it was their flag. In the hi-res photos, the tail number is clearly UN 764** I think it is an old Sayakhat Air plane, UN76434, which I found going through about 2,000 of the IL-76 photos on the site. I also think a well known gun runner based in Sharjah may be involved. Does anyone out there have some insight? Thanks

User currently offlineJcbci From Switzerland, joined Aug 2006, 1 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

Only two IL-76 TD with Khazakstani flag match the UN 764** number:

UN-76434
UN-76442

Both have been leased by the same company from Sayakhat Air. Interestingly, this company operates cargo routes to Kenya and Ethiopia and had previously been linked to operations carried out by a well known arms dealer.

Still hunting.


User currently offlineAPChris From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2677 times:

We've been putting pressure on the Kazakhs and Sayakhat Air. UN-76434 has been repainted and the flag on the tail covered up. Will check on UN-76442. Here is our story from today.

Thanks for the help.

Cheers,
Chris

¶ ALMATY, Kazakhstan (AP) _ The Kazakh Foreign Ministry denied Monday that the ex-Soviet republic delivered weapons to Somali rebels following reports that a plane bearing the Kazakh flag that landed in Somalia's capital was loaded with arms.
¶ "The Foreign Ministry authoritatively states that Kazakhstan has nothing to do with that fact and never delivered any weapons to that country," said the ministry spokesman Ilyas Omarov.
¶ He said that Kazakhstan was "strictly" following the U.N.-imposed embargo on arms supplies to Somalia.
¶ An Ilyushin-76 cargo plane, with the Kazakh flag painted on its tail, landed in the chaotic country's capital Mogadishu on July 26 and 28, witnesses said.
¶ The embattled Somali government said the flights were delivering weapons _ including land mines and long-range guns _ from neighboring Eritrea for a militia loyal to the Supreme Islamic Courts Council, a grouping of anti-government militias that have overrun much of Somalia's south.
¶ Both the rebels and Eritrean officials have denied the accusation.
¶ Kazakh National Security Committee said last week that it was investigating the reports.
¶ The Kazakh Civil Aviation Committee said in response to an Associated Press query that officially no Kazakh Il-76 is being leased by any African state or company. It also said that no Kazakh Il-76 has been ever been sold to a client in Africa.
¶ It also said that there are 16 Il-76s operated by five Kazakh companies that carry the country's national insignia, and all those companies were being investigated.
¶ The U.S. State Department last month warned against outside interference that could extend violence in the chaotic African nation.
¶ Kazakhstan, a vast oil-rich Central Asian nation, used to be a manufacturing hub for the Soviet defense industry.
¶ Since the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, Kazakh officials have been involved in a string of illegal arms scandals that included sales of MIG fighters to South Korea, and other military equipment and weapons to North Korea, Ethiopia, Congo and other countries.
¶ Kazakh airlines often make their planes available for charter.


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