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UA's/AA's Future At ORD  
User currently offlineKDCA From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 132 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4372 times:

There have been some really interesting topics lately talking about various airport/airline hub operations that have gotten me thinking.

I'm wondering about the future developments of the duel UA/AA hub at ORD.

Clearly ORD in its current form is in no position to accomodate any meaningful growth. While Terminal 1 is beautiful it seems to operate at absolute capacity during UA banks, particularly with very few widebody gates. (I think UA/LH use 5 gates for 777/747/340/330 etc)

Express is a mess over in T2 with aircraft seemingly stacked all over one another.

American seems to be in a better position facility wise. T3 is finnaly starting to improve; the facelift curbside and terminal improvements are rather nice. Eagle in G is great and it seems that AA has some gate space, especially in L to play around with.

However, it does not seem that AA is really growing in ORD. Eagle is on ORD-DCA and AA recently cancelled 777 service to China I believe (maybe Japan). What future does ORD have with AA? Are they just waiting for the runway changes or are they happy with ORD's current form.

UA on the other hand has to wait for ORD improvements to take place. The question is, will they seek additional terminal space (where?) ?
It seems that UA's service to FLA via TED makes them happy but they don't seem to put very many seats into this market. However, UA does seem utilize more seats to key business markets and to command a better yield than AA in these markets from figures I have seen. Will there be much expansion to Europe or more to Asia at any time?

Your thoughts:

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9700 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4342 times:

Chicago does have a master plan to make some major modifications and relocate runways. You can go to the airport's website to research it.

As far as the airlines go, the biggest problem that I see with ORD is that other airlines are restricted from entering since the airport is so full. There aren't vacant gates in terminal 1, 2 or 3. ORD needs to expand, but can't in the near future. MDW doesn't have a ton of space either since it is so compact. The solution could be to try and funnel some of the leisure traffic to airports that can handle it in the general vicinity of Chicago like Milwaukee, Rockford or Gary. Festival Airlines is starting up from Rockford, so that might take a few passengers away from the two main airports in Chicago. It would be good to see more service out of Rockford in particular for the sake of taking a little bit from ORD.

As far as American, the terminal definitely is not as nice as United's, but Eagle is definitely pressed for space. I see Eagle jets in the penalty box waiting for gates more than United Express.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineLfutia From Netherlands, joined Dec 2002, 3352 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4314 times:
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Does AA still use the outdated flight screens. (e.g. TV Screen with a black background, logo, destination, time of departure and time of departure if its delayed?) Now. United has one of the best flight information screens at the gate and at checkin at ORD compared to AA.

Leo



Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
User currently offlineKDCA From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4270 times:

I think AA has been changing those screens as part of the update of T3 but I'm not sure if they are all done.

User currently offlineSeatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 778 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

"and AA recently cancelled 777 service to China I believe (maybe Japan)."


Since when is AA cancelling Japan and China from Chicago???


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11840 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

A few thoughts:

. First and foremost, obviously, yes, there is really no long-term growth opportunity (capacity-wise, there is definitely market growth opportunity) for O'Hare's two main hub carriers -- American and United -- until O'Hare's Modernization program is completed
. O'Hare simply has to have its runways reconfigured and terminals expanded, and it has to have it yesterday -- despite what some politicians might say to appease the NIMBY voters, there is just no way around this simple reality if Chicago wants to continue to have one of the most important airports on earth in the Chicagoland area

. American is likely going to continue its strategy of focusing its O'Hare hub on the local O&D market, and concentrating less on lower-yield connecting passengers at O'Hare, along with shifting more and more flying to Eagle, which for the first time ever in 2005 actually surpassed mainline AA at O'Hare
. I used to think that this was a serious long-term strategic challenge for AA, as it was flying flights with 50-seat RJs up against United's 150-seat A320s; however, slowly but steadily, United is moving more and more of its flights to RJs as well, so this is not quite as large a problem as it once was, although it is still a present long-term competitive issue to keep an eye on
. While American has sadly been largely in contraction mode at O'Hare since 9/11, I think American will grow and expand at O'Hare as the market warrants and as opportunities (like Delhi and Shanghai, for example) present themselves, but I realistically do not see to much potential for much domestic growth at AA out of O'Hare until American gets a suitable narrowbody fleet strategy in place and works out what it is going to replace its 737s and MD80s with long-term, and whether or not it is going to buy 100-seaters

. United continues to go strong at O'Hare, as is to be expected for the hometown airline, and I really don't forsee too much dramatic change one way or the other -- growth or contraction -- for United at O'Hare
. Long-term, I think the only major trend that we could see United pursuing at O'Hare, and indeed probably across its system, is the continual shift to more flights with smaller planes, and thus to the use of more RJs on some flying, as it is already doing in many of the short-haul, <500mi markets out of O'Hare that it used to serve with mainline 737s and are now flying with CRJs
. Internationally, I really don't see how much more United could expand at O'Hare long-term, as they already really have all their core international network strengths covered -- Heathrow and Star partner Lufthansa's hub Frankfurt in Europe, plus Tokyo, Osaka, Seoul, Hong Kong, and China in Asia, and Brazil and Argentina in South America -- where else could they conceivably fly that could support a daily, nonstop flight to Chicago?

Bottom line: I think one thing is fairly for certain, though -- short of either of O'Hare's hub airlines going out of business, I don't forsee either really giving up their hub at O'Hare anytime soon

Just my $.02.


User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4212 times:

Quoting Seatback (Reply 4):
Since when is AA cancelling Japan and China from Chicago???

Probably refering to ORD-NGO.



John@SFO
User currently offlineTsaord From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4176 times:

Quoting KDCA (Reply 3):

I think AA has been changing those screens as part of the update of T3 but I'm not sure if they are all done.

yes they are in the process. All of the screens at Checkin have the new screens. Some long the H councourse as well. But they cant seem to keep them all nice with the right fonts, they start to get mushed down or something. Now Delta needs new screens!

But T3 is growing on me more now than T1 did when I first started there. T3 in the end will be a very nice looking terminal. The on part thats open on the departures level all the way down to the Pedestrian Walk-way in that same spot look great with new evelators, escalators, Skycap booths!


User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4148 times:

Quoting KDCA (Thread starter):
AA recently cancelled 777 service to China I believe (maybe Japan).

It was ORD NGO service that was canceled... that was last fall, the China flight from what I hear is doing extremely well...

Quoting Lfutia (Reply 2):
Does AA still use the outdated flight screens. (e.g. TV Screen with a black background, logo, destination, time of departure and time of departure if its delayed?) Now. United has one of the best flight information screens at the gate and at checkin at ORD compared to AA.

They do on some of the gates, however they are in the process of updating them with new services that also display the standby lists and upgrade lists as well as weather or not you've been cleared... I don't mind the new system however I'll admit UA does have a better one, however I question wheather or not they should have used all flat panel screens... AA did also add flight info such as weather, time change, and inroute time as well....

I also wanted to say AMEN to the comments above.. AA has taken an interesting stratagy by focusing on the o/d market or ORD and funeling the conx passengers to DFW when they can... good way to cut costs, with all the ORD ATC programs its got to be saving them a ton of money by having less conx...

[Edited 2006-07-27 04:33:45]


Why do I fly???
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9700 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4087 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 5):
Long-term, I think the only major trend that we could see United pursuing at O'Hare, and indeed probably across its system, is the continual shift to more flights with smaller planes, and thus to the use of more RJs on some flying, as it is already doing in many of the short-haul, <500mi markets out of O'Hare that it used to serve with mainline 737s and are now flying with CRJs

Actually United doesn't have that many CRJ-200s flying out of ORD anymore. Most of the old 737 flights have gone to a combination of E170s and CRJ-700s in the Explus configuration. This is pretty good since these planes still have first class. It is no where near as bad as American with all of its ERJs.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
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