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AirTran Any Growth In Sight.....  
User currently offlineStl1326 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 496 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6263 times:

I haven't heard much about AirTran lately. I thought they were adding a lot of planes to their fleet but they haven't added any new cities or point to point routes in a while. I was wondering what their growth plans are for the future and what we could see in the short term.

68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6240 times:

Quoting Stl1326 (Thread starter):
haven't heard much about AirTran lately. I thought they were adding a lot of planes to their fleet but they haven't added any new cities or point to point routes in a while. I was wondering what their growth plans are for the future and what we could see in the short term.

That is a very good question. I've asked that question before and have been slammed for questioning "great management" on other forums. I believe they have done ok, but are missing out on alot of opportunity in light of some of the legacy pullbacks. Yes, you can keep capacity out and achieve higher fares for awhile, but eventually if you don't put seats back into the market, the competition will. They have missed some big openings to capitalize on gaining market share. CLT and PHL were prime for poaching, but now B6 has a foothold in CLT and WN has cleaned up in PHL. I believe a little more aggressive approach in either city might have kept the LCC competition out or at least delayed it.

The legacys are done shrinking and some are now turning a profit. Opportunity lost.

[Edited 2006-07-27 05:19:19]

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9176 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6204 times:

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 1):
I believe they have done ok, but are missing out on alot of opportunity in light of some of the legacy pullbacks. Yes, you can keep capacity out and achieve higher fares for awhile, but eventually if you don't put seats back into the market, the competition will. They have missed some big openings to capitalize on gaining market share. CLT and PHL were prime for poaching, but now B6 has a foothold in CLT and WN has cleaned up in PHL. I believe a little more aggressive approach in either city might have kept the LCC competition out or at least delayed it.

And add PIT to this list again. They had a presence in 2000, but US competition ran them out pretty much. Now, PIT is no longer the fortress hub, or any hub for US. They had the chance to pounce on PIT in late 2004/early 2005, but WN pounced first, and then B6 did this year... oh well...

I am sure that if they did want to beef up any service, it would likely be at either BWI or IND in my opinion. Each could focus as a mini-hub. I actually think that would be perfect if FL wants to go international, as in transatlantic. BWI would be their gateway and IND could have a route or two as well...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6163 times:
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Steeler,

They still fly to PIT so I am assuming you are referring to expanded service?


User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6163 times:

Look for a west coast addition by next year. Not confirmed, just a rumor within the company.

And don't point fingers at me if nothing happens im not dasiywol, and I am NOT confirming, just a RUMOR  Silly

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineZippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5475 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6146 times:

Quoting Stl1326 (Thread starter):
I haven't heard much about AirTran lately. I thought they were adding a lot of planes to their fleet but they haven't added any new cities or point to point routes in a while. I was wondering what their growth plans are for the future and what we could see in the short term.

In 2006 so far, we added SEA & HPN! We are still taking delivery of brand new Boeing 737-700s. I'm glad PHL is doing well for WN. Lets face it, any of these big Northeast cities are weather and ATC delay Fuster Clucks especially during the long hot humid summer months. Here at BWI are flight load is scheduled to increase as we head toward 2007. Rumor mill has it, we are going to get a direct BWI-LAS route. Sometimes holding for a bit is prudent especially with volitale fuel prices and the precarious situation in the Mid-East and other world events all have ramifications in regard to our industry. Though MIA has somewhat prohibitive fees/rates, I'd still like to see us FLbeef up our MIA station. So far, we are the only one of the

BIG 3

Lcc's to have a presence at this gateway to much of the world. And best of luck to WN and US in CLT.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineOakjam From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6142 times:

Any chances that Airtran could come to OAK, SMF, SJC and serve ATL or any other city?

User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6134 times:

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 5):
In 2006 so far, we added SEA & HPN! We are still taking delivery of brand new Boeing 737-700s. I'm glad PHL is doing well for WN. Lets face it, any of these big Northeast cities are weather and ATC delay Fuster Clucks especially during the long hot humid summer months. Here at BWI are flight load is scheduled to increase as we head toward 2007. Rumor mill has it, we are going to get a direct BWI-LAS route. Sometimes holding for a bit is prudent especially with volitale fuel prices and the precarious situation in the Mid-East and other world events all have ramifications in regard to our industry. Though MIA has somewhat prohibitive fees/rates, I'd still like to see us FLbeef up our MIA station. So far, we are the only one of the BIG 3 Lcc's to have a presence at this gateway to much of the world. And best of luck to WN and US in CLT.

Look at you with your pretty yellow letters!  Smile


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9176 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6122 times:

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 3):
Steeler,

They still fly to PIT so I am assuming you are referring to expanded service?

Yea I am referring to expanded service. It is just they have such a minute presence there, it's almost as if it really wouldn't matter if they did up and leave all together...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6110 times:
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I am thinking Phoenix may be a good fit. The US/HP flights are usually full from ATL.

User currently offlineZippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5475 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6072 times:



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 7):
Look at you with your pretty yellow letters!



Having some HTML fun  bouncy 
SIZE="+3"BTW, rumor has it possibly Colorado Springs; I've also heard Phoenix.

http://www.web-source.net/




I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days ago) and read 5912 times:

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 10):
rumor has it possibly Colorado Springs; I've also heard Phoenix

Either one would be a good idea. COS is wide open and Colorado is growing fast. PHX would be great especially over the winter, although it's a booming city as well year round.


User currently offlineORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days ago) and read 5906 times:

Airtran posted record profits last quarter. Even if they aren't adding cities at a breakneck pace they must be doing something right!

User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days ago) and read 5900 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 12):
Airtran posted record profits last quarter. Even if they aren't adding cities at a breakneck pace they must be doing something right!

We lost money last quarter



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days ago) and read 5894 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 8):
Yea I am referring to expanded service. It is just they have such a minute presence there, it's almost as if it really wouldn't matter if they did up and leave all together...

Hahaha, I have to agree, with 5 daily flights FL is a very small player in Pittsburgh! I am waiting for FL to drop the PIT-MCO flight myself!

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 2):
I am sure that if they did want to beef up any service, it would likely be at either BWI or IND in my opinion. Each could focus as a mini-hub. I actually think that would be perfect if FL wants to go international, as in transatlantic. BWI would be their gateway and IND could have a route or two as well...

I like this thought a lot!!! FL should take your advice, although at IND FL is expanding quite a bit!



Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5828 times:

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 5):
So far, we are the only one of the



Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 5):
BIG 3

Big three what?
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlinePensacolaguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 546 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5746 times:

Some details I got from the Q&A from the Q2 2006 Airtran Holdings, Inc. Earning Conference Call...


-Expansion largely east of the Mississippi River.
-Expand in existing cities..Get as big as you can in your city. (Use gates to the max)
-LAS/LAX Solid Market, Very profitable
-ATL flight increase in September from 225 flights currently to about 235 flights in September.
-September...2nd weakest month of the year. Seasonally slower month.
-HPN is looking pretty good, trying to get the word out.
-Strong bookings for August and September.
-International codeshare possible.

2007
-------
Add more cities then last year (2 NEW cities added in 2006).

[Edited 2006-07-27 17:09:24]

User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5723 times:

If they are expanding in existing cities, I wonder what that means for Cleveland. Right now they have service out of CAK, which is going to be great for me when I come home from Kent. You get to avoid all the craziness of CLE and it seems that AirTran really rules the place.
It would be nice to see them expand to CLE, even though I will still go to CAK. I'm thinking of flying out of there to come home during Spring Break next year.

I also like how they have a simple fleet with only two different types of aircraft. But it really does make you wonder about if Boeing had kept the 717 alive. They were planning a stretch version and I am sure AirTran would have been interested.

[Edited 2006-07-27 17:22:15]

User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5542 times:

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 10):
BTW, rumor has it possibly Colorado Springs; I've also heard Phoenix.

COS has been rumored since late 1999 (The LAS rumored started around that time as well) when I was working there.

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 17):
But it really does make you wonder about if Boeing had kept the 717 alive. They were planning a stretch version and I am sure AirTran would have been interested.

FL wanted the 717-300 to have the range to do transcons, but Boeing felt that would have put the 717 even closer in competition to the 737NG, and was only offering a slightly longer range than the 717-200. A number of airlines were rumored to be interested in the 717-300, but since Boeing was on the fence for so long about it, those airlines went with other aircraft. I bet AA wishes they would have been able to renegoiate the lease rates on the ones they inherited in the TWA merger. AA was one of the airlines rumored to have been interested in the 717-300.

Now for the Armchair CEO portion of this post.

Next year will definitely see the groundwork for the next 5-10 years being laid. They will secure their future at ATL with several highly important announcements (Possibly regarding the proposed South Terminal, additional hangar space, and a headquarters move.) over the course of the year. I also would venture to guess that they flirt with the idea of joining an alliance (potentially OneWorld or quite possibly an alliance of North American LCCs). I also wouldn't be surprised if a merger deal appears for them within the next 18 months.

As for new cities over the next 4-5 years, here's my shortlist:

PHX
SAN
PDX
SLC
COS
RNO
ABQ
SAT
OKC
STL
PVD
MBJ
MEX
SJU
YYZ
YUL
SJC
MOB
UTA
ACY

The one thing that might stagnate their growth (especially @ ATL) is the gate situation @ ATL. They are maxed out on C, and are using just about every possible gate they can on D (Which may be helped out by FL possibly becoming the primary tenant of the additional gates the airport is building on D). If they do grow their operation of D, they need to consider some sort of bus shuttle between the two concourses, as if you're coming off of a flight at D-1 and your connecting flight is on C-1, that's a bit of a trek.


User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5513 times:

Any word on how SEA is working out?

User currently offlineCongaboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 352 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5493 times:

How about this...AirTran has very recently moved to the Humphrey Terminal at MSP, where they can grow to some degree (and no doubt getting favorable rates). You also have at MSP an airline in deep, deep trouble trying to hold their fortress hub. Currently AirTran has service from MSP to MDW, ATL, MCO. Why not expand to other AirTran feature cities from MSP, like BWI, DFW, IND? I would think NW is unchallenged to or at least charging big fares to these cities...why not get a piece of that?


"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
User currently offlineBatonOps From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5316 times:

Maybe they will decide to come back to MDT. We where so close earlier this year...three days from the big announcement.

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9176 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5288 times:

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 21):
Maybe they will decide to come back to MDT. We where so close earlier this year...three days from the big announcement.

If that happens, I am filling out an application for a ramper or F/A position there! The Eden is slowly beginning to drive me mad  crazy 



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineZippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5475 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5194 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 15):
Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 5):
BIG 3

Big three what?
safe

Low Cost Carriers:

  • Air Tran Airways
  • Southwest
  • JetBlue

At least in the USA when you think of the big 3 LCC's you think of us and those other 2 fellow carriers!



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6752 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5187 times:

Quoting Pensacolaguy (Reply 16):
-Expansion largely east of the Mississippi River.
-Expand in existing cities..Get as big as you can in your city. (Use gates to the max)
-LAS/LAX Solid Market, Very profitable
-ATL flight increase in September from 225 flights currently to about 235 flights in September.
-September...2nd weakest month of the year. Seasonally slower month.
-HPN is looking pretty good, trying to get the word out.
-Strong bookings for August and September.
-International codeshare possible.

Any possibilities of a new destination out of RDU? They have had their 5 daily to ATL forever without an inkling of expansion. They still have plenty of gate usage out of their gate for expansion. Something non-BWI, BOS, PHL, or MCO please..



Aiming High and going far..
25 Post contains images ATLAaron : I am from that area originally and I highly doubt they would service both CAK and CLE. CLE has much higher landing fees and adding service there woul
26 Post contains images KSUpilot : Didn't think of that, they really do have it good over at CAK and I'm looking forward ot flying out of there. I just have to survive CLE around Thanks
27 FlyDreamliner : Well, they are fighting hometown LCC Sun Country in the humphrey, so that'll limit their growth potential from MSP.
28 Post contains images Zippyjet : Little birdies within our company have been tweeting on and off such goodies as: BWI-MDW DCA-MDW BWI-CAK-MDW BWI-IND BTW we have no problems packing o
29 Congaboy : Not so sure, Dreamliner....SY is going to different places. I would say together, SY and FL are causing more and more headaches for the Eagan-based a
30 Indy : Birdie messed that one up I believe as that app was already denied.
31 Post contains links Jerion : http://www.suncountry.com/suncountry/fltdest.jsp I know this probably wouldn't happen, but what if FL and SY were to someday merge. That would give F
32 Delta767 : Any change GSO would ever return?
33 KSUpilot : Has anyone heard any talk about what they might be looking at? It would make sense for them to go with something smaller like ERJ-145s or 135s.
34 Srbmod : They've already tried service using regional jets and discovered that on some of the routes ZW was flying for them (under the AirTran JetConnect bann
35 AirTran737 :
36 Post contains images Midway2airtran : Hey, you forgot the wannabe that claims to be the largest with no low fares, US Airways! I would say that adding 1-2 a/c a month is some pretty good
37 Bnamaxx : People in Nashville have been wanting FL to ATL for sometime to compete with DL. Rumor has it that when they were Valujet and pulled out, the owed the
38 Iowaman : You know what would work at an uncongested airport would be either OMA or DSM. Neither has n/s to LAX (fairly big market, however OMA has one-stop on
39 Post contains images Srbmod : Lasted a few months in 1999. Up until a several months ago, Regionsair had been flying BNA-ATL (as a Midway Connection carrier until Midway became a
40 FWAERJ : I've heard some rumors of FWA being a new FL city in the near future... even on the TV news. Personally, I could see FL do 2-3x daily ATL and a daily
41 FI642 : I bet AirTran would also like a few more gates at BWI for expansion too.
42 Zippyjet : You know it! We just have apply with the state and see what we can add on junky Concourse D which is dire need of rennovations and beefing up the anc
43 ATLAaron : If you are going to throw something like that out there at least say who you think they could/would merge with.
44 Thering : What is the difference between AirTran Airlines and Airways?
45 Post contains links Wjcandee : Hmmm...maybe you haven't been reading the papers... From http://today.reuters.com/news/newsar...IRLINES-AIRTRAN-EARNS-UPDATE-3.XML "AirTran Holdings
46 Post contains images Steeler83 : Yeah, I would like to see FL build up BWI considerably, and some of those terminals don't need rennovations; they need complete overhauls! I haven't
47 Vatveng : I believe AirTran Airlines is the original AirTran that existed before the merger, and AirTran Airways was ValuJet. They used the two names concurren
48 Srbmod : Actually it was the other way around. AirTran Airlines was the name ValuJet DBAed under until the merger with AirWays Corp. (the parent company of Ai
49 UAL-Fan : Man I wish they would start service to San Diego. Delta's fares out of here to Atlanta are absolutely outrageous.
50 FI642 : The facilities AirTran is using at BWI was built in the early 1980's for Piedmont Airlines BWI Hub. All the other piers got upgrades, including the "o
51 Bh : Yes the D and DY pier did recieve some upgrades and they are still doing some such as additional stores and resturants. But the cosmetic upgrades it
52 Quickmover : Are no more gates available for them at BWI? I've never been there, but with all the expansion WN has put into that market, are there enough passenge
53 AirTran737 : When you posted that, the results for the second quarter were not out, so i was referring to the first quarter results in which we lost a few million
54 Zippyjet : I remember when D concoursed opened back in the very early 80s. My first stroll through it and, I was very unimpressed even back then. I felt it was
55 FI642 : The international pier at BWI looks good because of low utilization. Frequently each gate sees one to two aircraft a day max. During the day it is a g
56 Travatl : We didn't serve Toronto, we served YUL (Montreal) from IAD only.....
57 Quickmover : I listened to their earnings conference call and they mentioned they would be concentrating on MDW, BOS, and BWI growth. They also planned to add anot
58 Post contains images Vatveng : Somehow I had a feeling I'd gotten that backwards thanks for the correction.
59 AS739X : My FL wishlist: CAK-DFW/LAX/SFO! ASLAX
60 Steeler83 : Maybe this will change if FL decides to expand over to Europe; I am sure that BWI would become a gateway for FL, as would ATL and IND probably... (AT
61 Zippyjet : True to some extent but, E concourse looks fancier. The floor, higher ceilings, bright and cheerier than my dowdy D pier. And, the air conditioning w
62 Steeler83 : Which terminal is E? I know that FL uses D, but what is it about the floors? (sorry, it is obvious I was never in the BWI airport... only the WN offi
63 AvConsultant : There is a lot of traffic FL could pull to support those markets. Depding on the IND west coast performance, I'm sure they're taking note in MCO. I t
64 Post contains links Quickmover : The soon to be abandoned 10 gate B concourse in STL would make a nice focus station. New runway as well. STL could be as much of a surprise as IND was
65 Zippyjet : Concourse D was built in the early 80s as the hub operation for Piedmont. As I mentioned, I felt it was built on the cheap. Very drab institutional w
66 717-200 : Are there any plans to renovate the old USX commuter basement gate area into a two story mainline gate area like the rest of Concourse D?
67 Steeler83 : And I guess this is how US had quite a presence at BWI; thru the buyout of Piedmont. Didn't they get two hubs from them, CLT and BWI? Rather detailed
68 Post contains images Zippyjet : I'm guessing, with the high numbered gates, with Piedmont's monster growth back in the Reagan era, they needed the gate space fast. And, I guess with
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