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Virgin Blue Looking At NZ Domestic (again)  
User currently offlineSpinalTap From New Zealand, joined Mar 2005, 440 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 3675 times:

Virgin(/Pacific?) Blue is looking at domestic operations in NZ again.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3744724a13,00.html

Fares could still be less on the NZ domestic market. AKL-CHC and SYD-MEL are both 1h20min. Cheapest I could find: AKL-CHC return $242 and that is a special, SYD-AVV $190 NZD on JQ and that seemed to be the standard fare.


"I get what they call a stipend, a stipend is like money but its such as small amount they don't really call it money"
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 3668 times:

I certainly hope they do expand more here within NZ. Any ideas on where they would fly? Any regional places like Invercargill, Dunedin, Palmerston North or Hamilton? I wonder when they would come here, if they do. In Auckland, would they operate from the NZ domestic terminal? Is there any room for them there?

I take it that routes would be 73G operated and not 738's?


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5351 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 16 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

I don't think there is room for 3 domestic airlines in NZ running to the main centres. While it would be nice and maybe bring fares down abit I don't no how they would go againest NZ's frequency on the AKL-WLG/CHC runs, QF struggle againest NZ aswell.

User currently offline1Des1 From New Zealand, joined Jun 2006, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 14 hours ago) and read 3488 times:

Quoting SpinalTap (Thread starter):
Fares could still be less on the NZ domestic market. AKL-CHC and SYD-MEL are both 1h20min. Cheapest I could find: AKL-CHC return $242 and that is a special, SYD-AVV $190 NZD on JQ and that seemed to be the standard fare.

DJ coming on board in domestic market would be awesome for the consumer... in the short term.. in the long term would not be so great. NZ would most likely start a price war in an attempt to drive DJ out of the market place - although it would be nice to fly CHC - AKL for $100 return - the realities of the price of oil would mean both NZ and DJ would loose money, something which in the long run will lead to much higher fares.

NZ domestic op's is NZ's bread and butter - there is no way they would go down without a fight, it is the backbone of the carrier, a start up airline like DJ which is alot smaller and has less capital behind it just would not last against the dirty tactics NZ would introduce - they would drive DJ out of the market.

Jet Connect / QF is loosing money on domestic routes, the fall of Ansett New Zealand really highlighted the harsh realities that the New Zealand domestic market is not big enough to sustain two major carriers- let alone 3 ! (Although the frequency of Jet Connect aka QF is really only half a carrier) (QO is not really a major carrier - I still don't understand why QF stopped code sharing with them, combined they offer a bigger threat to NZ then operating separately QF could do with the regional connections and QO needs the national connections)

NZ has been prepared for DJ to enter domestic New Zealand market for many years and runs a very low cost, no fat round the edges operation. It would be placed perfectly to fend off any competition.

NZ has the benefit that QF does in it's domestic market - the corporate clients who would simply not part with the frequencies, Koru Club access, Priority Baggage, Valet Parking etc etc that flying on NZ allows.

But hey I'm all for competition so good on DJ if they give it a go.


User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 853 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 14 hours ago) and read 3481 times:

It is interesting when DJ enters New Zealand domestic market with their Velocity program while NZ smart saver fares don't allow points accrual.

User currently offline1Des1 From New Zealand, joined Jun 2006, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 14 hours ago) and read 3481 times:

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 1):
I certainly hope they do expand more here within NZ. Any ideas on where they would fly? Any regional places like Invercargill, Dunedin, Palmerston North or Hamilton? I wonder when they would come here, if they do. In Auckland, would they operate from the NZ domestic terminal? Is there any room for them there?

I would say if DJ started operating domestic routes it would be the mainline
AKL - CHC
AKL - WLG
AKL - ZQN
WLG - AKL
WLG - CHC
CHC - AKL
CHC - WLG

I would be very surprised if they operated any regional routes, would probably code share with QO on regional routes (Providing each other with vital links)

NZ would never allow them access to the NZ domestic terminal - especially being in the process of spending about $12 Million on it. Probably DJ would have to squeeze in with QF. Until the new domestic terminal is operational but that is years away.


User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1523 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 13 hours ago) and read 3441 times:

Quoting SpinalTap (Thread starter):
Fares could still be less on the NZ domestic market. AKL-CHC and SYD-MEL are both 1h20min. Cheapest I could find: AKL-CHC return $242 and that is a special, SYD-AVV $190 NZD on JQ and that seemed to be the standard fare.

Just booked one of NZ's promotional web fares "grabaseat" $49 akl-chc one way so im flying for $98 return ..

well i just checked the virgin blue website and their airfares start at $109aud for mel-syd if you make that into nzd its $131 nzd ..For the same flight time as chc-akl is on air NZ that routes fare was $121 nzd both for travel on sat 29 jul..

As for the $242 or $121 one way its a standard lead in fare for Air NZ just like the one i quoted on virgin was at $109aud(131 nzd) or mid week $85aud(103 nzd)..So the fares are not that different .. With 2 airlines providing service in NZ already i doubt there is much room for another player unless its just the odd flight here and there ..The other problem is terminal space AKL has a major space problem in its domestic terminals ,WLG has probably got space and CHC is probably got minimal space available as well..



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 3 hours ago) and read 3383 times:

Interesting...

I think you'd see QF/JetConnect be the big loser in this. They have restricted schedules and no feed with Origin, which is such a shame for both carriers. Though Qf's frequent flyer awards and the IFE on longer trips (eg. AKL-ZQN) are appreciated and a point of difference.

I still believe that if you could get an operation started flying E190s configured with 100 seats (thus needing only two F/As) and with an arrangement in place with Origin, you could effectively force QF out of the market and then come to some kind of codeshare arrangement with them on domestic routes. This would give both international and regional feed to domestic mainline ops.

And the E190 could likely be used on routes like WLG-HLZ, CHC-IVC and even AKL-Napier/Nelson routes. And it would be perfect for all flights into Dunedin, giving a much more comfortable ride than NZ's ATRs.

Man, if only I had $50 million!! And no fear  Smile


User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 3364 times:

Unless they offer new city pairs, could they drive fares lower to that offered by NZ and QF?
Product wise, they have nothing to offer, so one has to doubt how things would go.
Either way I am sure they will not go into things on a whim!

 wave 


User currently offlineAxio From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 3357 times:

I'm not entirely sure about the benefit of Origin Pacific to the operations of Qantas in NZ, or any other carrier. Aside from their flights from NSN to WLG, CHC, no other route has a frequency of more than 14 flights per week. Furthermore they are operating 19 and 29 seat aircraft, and AirNZ have proven fairly prompt about dealing with new oppourunities that Origin creates (like HLZ-CHC).

I have sometimes wondered about larger aircraft operating from places like PMR and DUD, where there are sometimes two ATR-72 services to the same place within an hour or two of each other. The downside of larger aircraft today being that it requires passenger screening, and someone has to pay for that.



Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 3334 times:

Quoting Axio (Reply 9):
I'm not entirely sure about the benefit of Origin Pacific to the operations of Qantas in NZ, or any other carrier. Aside from their flights from NSN to WLG, CHC, no other route has a frequency of more than 14 flights per week. Furthermore they are operating 19 and 29 seat aircraft, and AirNZ have proven fairly prompt about dealing with new oppourunities that Origin creates (like HLZ-CHC).

Nz is creaming quite a premium off of its Link operation on most routes, as this article on a recent study attests to...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/search/sto...000C7A2-C3BC-14C1-B7E083027AF1010F

I think you'd find if Origin had a codeshare partner on main trunk routes that you'd see a quick expansion of frequencies. Of course, this is what got them into trouble when QF ditched them suddenly last time, so Origin may be slightly more cautious the second time around.

origin is also moving to concentrate on its J41 fleet and I believe will have disposed of it's 19 seaters within the next year or so. DUD, IVC, HLZ, NPR and NLS are certainly mature enough to handle the competition. It just needs the right equipment and the right strategy (combined with a trunk carrier) and I think you have a very real shot at it.


User currently offlineKiwiflyer791 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3178 times:

Would be very suprised if DJ fly domestic in NZ.

Air NZ would protect there domestic service very ferously. Not many airlines have been very successful in the NZ domestic market, it is just too small.

More to the point is how well Pacific Blue is doing. They dropped Wellington for Auckland, and the fleet has not expanded for a while now, so just how successful on this side of the Tasman have they been?


User currently offlinePulkovokiwi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3169 times:

Quoting Kiwiflyer791 (Reply 11):

They have just started intensive TV advertising in the AKL market and offering damn good all inclusive deals to Queensland.


User currently offlinePurpleBox From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3133 times:

Quoting Axio (Reply 9):
The downside of larger aircraft today being that it requires passenger screening, and someone has to pay for that.

When I've been in New Zealand I've always been surprised that certain 'Link' domestic flights don't require full security. Here in the UK all flights have the same security requirements.

Exactly what are the rules in new Zealand?

PurpleBox.



Next Flights:STH-ATH-STN (A3), BHX-INV-BHX(BE), LCY-FRA-BOG(LH), EZE-FRA-LHR(LH)
User currently offlinePulkovokiwi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3133 times:

Aviation Security Service only screens mainline Air NZ and Qantas jet services. Seems inconsistent to me.

User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2268 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3115 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 14):
Aviation Security Service only screens mainline Air NZ and Qantas jet services. Seems inconsistent to me.

Thats because the law only requires screening of aircraft carrying 90 or more pax. If DJ started domestic ops with their 737NG's then they too would have to have their pax screened. DJ738 is probably the one to ask for sure, but I highly doubt DJ will offer a decent domestic service in NZ, unless QF/JetConnect were to pull out, which isn't going to happen anytime soon.

NZ1


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3042 times:

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 14):
Aviation Security Service only screens mainline Air NZ and Qantas jet services. Seems inconsistent to me.

When we flew CHC-DUD you didnt even need to go through any security, bit of a worry though.

DUD would be a great place for DJ to operate from with the newly finished terminal with a HUGE checkin area and only NZ and SJ using it! such a waste of space that could be used.



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlinePurpleBox From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3031 times:

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 16):
DUD would be a great place for DJ to operate from with the newly finished terminal with a HUGE checkin area and only NZ and SJ using it! such a waste of space that could be used.

Agreed - when I was flying DUD-AKL back in January DUD had a very nice new terminal without any planes - just an ATR72 to CHC and the B737 to AKL over a three hour period.

PurpleBox.



Next Flights:STH-ATH-STN (A3), BHX-INV-BHX(BE), LCY-FRA-BOG(LH), EZE-FRA-LHR(LH)
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