Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
ANA Asks UAL To Use T-1 Gates At ORD, But..  
User currently offlineAirfinair From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 667 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 3 months 3 hours ago) and read 7995 times:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...hi-0607260246jul26,1,2815453.story

I'm not sure if you can access the article from Sunday's Trib without a password, but, in a nutshell:

ANA has asked UAL to use a T-1 gate at ORD for departures to NRT when ANA resumes service this fall (ala DLH.) UAL has not said yes, and they probably won't. Obviously, with the widebody T-1 gates being used by both UAL and DLH, there's not a lot of room. Secondly, ANA is offering (perhaps) a better product on their 777's than UAL is on either their 744's or 777's to NRT. UAL probably wouldn't like the competition. I can't really blame them for not bending over backwards to help them.

IIRC, ANA was not using T-1 for departures when they flew out of ORD in the past. Arrivals and departures were from the international terminal. Correct? Can someone confirm this?

So with ANA's flight, that makes it, what, 2x UAL, 1X AAL, 1X ANA, & 2X JAL ORD-NRT daily? (I'm assuming JAL is going back to 1X daily soon.)

Ahh, the drama continues at ORD.....


ORD,MDW,IND,ARB,AMS,AUS,ANQ,DTW,DEN,PHL,PIT,MIA,GPT,SAN,PHX,LAX,SFO,OAK,SEA,LAS,SLC,SMF,ATL,MEM,BOS,MHT,JFK,EWR,LGA,NASâ
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLfutia From Netherlands, joined Dec 2002, 3345 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 7946 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

you dont see Aer Lingus operating from Terminal 3 now do you? Even when they were with OW, they never operated from T3.

Leo



Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 7922 times:

Here's the first few paragraphs:

United balks at giving partner use of its gate

By Ameet Sachdev
Tribune staff reporter
Published July 26, 2006

United Airlines has staked its future out of bankruptcy on flying more passengers to international destinations. The competition is so intense that even a so-called airline partner of United has gotten a taste of its hard-nosed attitude.

All Nippon Airways, also known as ANA, has asked United for permission to use one of its gates in Terminal 1 when it restarts a daily, non-stop flight to Tokyo this fall.

But Elk Grove Township-based United does not seem eager to share, even with a fellow partner in the Star Alliance global airline network. Star Alliance members share flight information and feed each other customers.

"Our gate utilization at O'Hare is extremely high at 9 to 10 flights daily," said United spokeswoman Megan McCarthy. "In all cases where we are approached for access to our gates, we must evaluate the impact on our schedule and how any change would impact our customers."

The turf battle illustrates some of the fundamental tensions inherent in airline partnerships. As fuel prices have soared and fares have fallen in the last five years, competitive concerns have at times outweighed an alliance's benefits of reduced costs by sharing information and reservation systems.

The OneWorld alliance, which includes American Airlines, found itself at odds with one of its members, Aer Lingus, after the Irish airline repositioned itself as a low-cost, point-to-point carrier. Created in the 1990s, alliances tend to favor traditional hub-and-spoke airlines that attract the frequent international traveler willing to pay premium fares. Aer Lingus announced in May that it was leaving the partnership.


Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineORDRyan28 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 988 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 7851 times:

I highly doubt UA will say yes...I think it's not only competition for UA, but also a pain because all internation flights (except Canada) need to park at T5 first to go through customs....bad idea...I think ANA will end up at T5 where they belong.

-Ryan



Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
User currently offlinePgtravel From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 446 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 7807 times:

The end of the article talks about how UA and LH share gates in ORD, FRA, and MUC, but that's not a very fair comparison. UA and LH have revenue sharing on all transatlantic flights, so they should be treating it just like one of their own. If I were at UA, and my gates were full, I'd tell ANA to go to T5.

User currently offlineCHI787ORD From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 548 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 hours ago) and read 7778 times:

Also, I personally do not see that much of a benefit from being a T1 instead of T5. It may be better for transfer passengers, but overall it isn't that big of a deal. If its a matter of aesthetics, T5 isnt outdated or cramped or anything.

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 7741 times:

Well Star Alliance just opened up their newly renovated terminal in NRT where they put all the Star Alliance airlines in a single terminal. United doesn't share terminal 1 for departures for all of Star Alliance and it does have very high utilization with its own flights to Asia, but are there no widebody gates for ANA to use? It would only be used for an hour. UA has the two gates on the B concourse and I a few on the C concourse that can handle 777s. The timing of ANA's flight should mean most likely that it will be before the four Lufthansa jets get to ORD.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5090 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 1 hour ago) and read 7725 times:

I sense trouble in the Star family!


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months ago) and read 7657 times:

Quoting Airfinair (Thread starter):
IIRC, ANA was not using T-1 for departures when they flew out of ORD in the past. Arrivals and departures were from the international terminal. Correct? Can someone confirm this?

It was a 744 service from T5 only.

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 5):
Also, I personally do not see that much of a benefit from being a T1 instead of T5. It may be better for transfer passengers, but overall it isn't that big of a deal. If its a matter of aesthetics, T5 isnt outdated or cramped or anything.

Better STAR Connections and Red Carpet rooms I would venture.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 6):
The timing of ANA's flight should mean most likely that it will be before the four Lufthansa jets get to ORD

Noteworthy to say is that "4"th LH flight is a PrivatAir A319CJ from DUS and it goes out from Terminal 2 sometimes.


User currently offlineIowa744fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7562 times:

Is there any mention of what time ANA wants to schedule their flight? If it is around the 11:30am-1pm time slot which seems likely given their schedules in other airports in the USA, it is pretty understandable for United to not offer them a gate. As mentioned, only six gates can accomodate aircraft the size of a 744 or 777 (B16, B17, C10, C16, C18, and C29). During this time slot, they operate a flight to HKG, two to NRT, one to KIX, one to PEK, and one to PVG. They already account for all six gates. There is no reason that UA should move one of its departures to accomodate NH. Plus, they need two of those gates relatively quickly for the first two LH and UA flights to FRA. There is a small gap before the next flights to FRA, MUC, and LHR depart. Plus, there could be 777s going to DEN, IAD, or SFO that they need to fit in there (I don't know how many or even if these go on these routes much). If All Nippon is flexible and can find a time slot when those gates aren't busy, then maybe you would expect UA to help out. However, they should not have to rearrange their ops so that NH can move when T5 has plenty of space.

User currently offlineAirfinair From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 667 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7417 times:

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 8):
Noteworthy to say is that "4"th LH flight is a PrivatAir A319CJ from DUS

LH is actually running 5 flights a day to ORD, the PrivatAir from DUS, 3 flights from FRA (LH 430, 432, 448,) and 1 from MUC (LH 434.) So there are currently 4 LH widebody's at T-1 during the day.

And from a great breakdown of the widebody gate usages in T-1 by Iowa744fan, it looks like ANA will most likely be staying at T-5.



ORD,MDW,IND,ARB,AMS,AUS,ANQ,DTW,DEN,PHL,PIT,MIA,GPT,SAN,PHX,LAX,SFO,OAK,SEA,LAS,SLC,SMF,ATL,MEM,BOS,MHT,JFK,EWR,LGA,NASâ
User currently offlineUnited777ORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 262 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7338 times:

Quoting Iowa744fan (Reply 9):
As mentioned, only six gates can accomodate aircraft the size of a 744 or 777 (B16, B17, C10, C16, C18, and C29). During this time slot, they operate a flight to HKG, two to NRT, one to KIX, one to PEK, and one to PVG. They already account for all six gates.

Correction. There are actually only five gates (B16, B17, C10, C16/A, C18/A) the 744 uses because these gates have double gate bridges for boarding. Some 777 flights use the five gates used by the 744 but the United terminal has another 10 gates (B2, C9, C11, C15, C17, C19, C20, C21, C23, C29) for simultaneous 777/763 operations. The ORD United terminal has 15 gates that can be used simultaneously for widebody operations without closing other gates due to space limitations. OMP (Ohare Modernization Project) and the city of Chicago need to hurry up and build the new terminal 6 so United can have all of terminal 2 for majority United Express operations and some mainline operations.

-United777ORD


User currently offlineChicagoOhare From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7244 times:

Quoting Lfutia (Reply 1):
you dont see Aer Lingus operating from Terminal 3 now do you? Even when they were with OW, they never operated from T3.

Leo

True, but Iberia does.

Quoting Airfinair (Reply 10):
So there are currently 4 LH widebody's at T-1 during the day.

One of the FRA flights doesn't come in until later, around 7:30.



As mentioned previously, other Star Alliance members with the exception of LH don't get the "luxury" of parking at T1, why should ANA?


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7212 times:

I cannot see it being about ANA offering a better product as to whethere they use the gates in T1 its surely down to whether there is available space, and if there isn't....simple..hello T5.....UA cannot blamed for that!!

User currently offlineRevo1059 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6584 times:

Hope they fly in early like they did before, or there weil be NO room to park them in the middle of the day (there is already 10 lbs of crap in a 5 lbs bag at T5 during the day).

User currently offlineS5FA170 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 534 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6473 times:

If United had such a problem with ANA offering a superior product to Japan, then why does ANA get whole page advertising in the Hemispheres magazine?

I completely understand United's reasoning about space-limitations. I fly in and out of ORD four out of seven days a week working and that place is always jam-packed.

-Tony



Prepare doors for departure and cross-check.
User currently offlineCa2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5837 times:

UA holds onto their gates at ORD for dear life. No surprises there.....US Airways has been going around and around trying to get UA to agree to similar gate issues at T-2 so HP/US could finally integrate their local operation.

User currently offlineWarreng24 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5592 times:

UA seems willing to share their gates with LH.

User currently offlineForeverUnited From United States of America, joined May 2006, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5524 times:

Quoting JAL (Reply 7):
I sense trouble in the Star family!

To that I say "Fie!". Star Alliance carriers are most certainly in a position to aide and assist each other when necessary, but it's never been suggested it be at to their detriment. Remember, these are not merged carriers, they are independent airlines who are actually competing on several routes. The alliance is designed to harmonize connections between carriers, not require them to cannibalize their best assets to their competitors who happen to share the same alliance affiliation. While it would understandably benefit United to share a facility with as many Star carriers as possible, in Chicago it's simply not possible. Remember United is forced to split it's own International Arrivals and Departures between two terminals.

With US carriers cash-strapped (and other worldwide carriers less, so) their first loyalty will always be to their pocketbooks (and by extension their shareholders). United's defense of it's facilities is not an indicator of dissension in the ranks; merely a sound business decision in favor of its' customers and stakeholders.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5503 times:

What amazes me is that this has become a public issue. I can't understand why this was not kept between UA and ANA and how a reporter got involved.

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 17):
UA seems willing to share their gates with LH.

The big difference with LH is that UA also shares their money with them. As previously stated, the two airlines profit share on transatlantic routes. There is no favouritism towards which you book if you call up United and book a ticket to FRA. This is different than the other Star Carriers in ORD. It makes sense to keep connections easier for people going between United and Lufthansa since so many more people connect in ORD to the Lufthansa flights to FRA than to Scandinavian, BMI, and whomever else.

[Edited 2006-07-28 21:31:24]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

Quoting S5FA170 (Reply 15):
If United had such a problem with ANA offering a superior product to Japan, then why does ANA get whole page advertising in the Hemispheres magazine?

Maybe it has something to do with ANA paying for the advertising space?

lol... sarcastic 


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

I think the only non-T5 "international" flights are LH and IB's daily flight to MAD. It's not surprising that that UA isn't going to take a hit so for ANA to run a competing flight on to NRT.

Steve


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5077 times:

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 21):
I think the only non-T5 "international" flights are LH and IB's daily flight to MAD. It's not surprising that that UA isn't going to take a hit so for ANA to run a competing flight on to NRT.

I'm not sure what you mean by that but United's international flights depart from terminal 1 (with some United Express flights to Canada leaving from terminal 2), Air Canada flies from Terminal 2, American flies from Terminal 3. All international arrivals except most from Canada arrive at terminal 5.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineChristao17 From Thailand, joined Apr 2005, 941 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4784 times:

IIRC, Asiana operates its one flight to Seoul out of T5 and they have a near-midnight departure so gate space at T1 wouldn't be at a premium.


Keeping the "civil" in civil aviation...
User currently offlineLfutia From Netherlands, joined Dec 2002, 3345 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4768 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ChicagoOhare (Reply 12):
Quoting Lfutia (Reply 1):
you dont see Aer Lingus operating from Terminal 3 now do you? Even when they were with OW, they never operated from T3.

Leo

True, but Iberia does.

Lemme also state that you dont see Scandinanvian or Asiana let alone when MX was in Star the ability to depart out of T1.

Leo



Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
25 ChicagoOhare : I agree with you, I was just pointing out that Iberia does indeed leave out of T3. (I really think they don't deserve the right either).
26 Centrair : Is it really worth it to fly into T5 drop off passengers and then move the plane to T1? I know all international flights must first go to T5 but is it
27 SparkingWave : Hey, this terminal thing between UA and NH is probably blown all out of proportion. AT LEAST there are slots available for NH between ORD and NRT. God
28 ORDTerminal1 : Terminal 2 is awful. If I was UA i would be ashamed to let passengers fly out of it. While the face project is helping a little, IMHO the ceiling of
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Southwest To Use Gates A1 & A3 At PIT posted Tue Mar 8 2005 23:29:03 by KarlB737
How Do Pax Get To These Gates At LAX? posted Thu Aug 25 2005 15:04:11 by B747-4U3
Finnair To Use T5 At LHR? posted Mon Feb 28 2005 15:40:21 by Richardw
JetBlue To Gain Gates At BOS (Boston Globe) posted Tue Feb 1 2005 19:24:05 by ScottB
How Many CO Gates At ORD posted Thu Oct 14 2004 05:05:48 by Ord747cle
BA To Use T5 At LHR posted Thu Nov 6 2003 13:25:58 by Aussie747
DL Gates At ORD posted Sun Jun 15 2003 20:31:20 by Scott4AA
WN Moves To New Gates At BDL posted Thu Apr 24 2003 18:37:57 by LoneStarMike
Old PAN Am Gates At ORD posted Thu Sep 19 2002 06:49:32 by UALrampORD
Where Is The Best Place To Watch Airplanes At Ord? posted Mon Feb 18 2002 18:00:20 by Wang767