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Official; UA Shifting JFK-NRT/ceasing JFK-LHR  
User currently offlineGman3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 290 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 18067 times:

Effective Oct 27th, JFK-NRT is shifting to IAD and the NY-London authority is being sold to Delta.
This is something we had expected for the last month but didn't think the route was going to be sold off. It is truly a shame that they could not make it work.

209 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCapicuuu From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 18067 times:

Any source for this??

User currently offlineGman3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 18030 times:

It was announced to us today by the company via memo.

User currently offlineCVG777 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1251 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 18030 times:

United Press Release:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060728/nyf041.html?.v=56

Delta Press Release:
http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060728/102896.html


User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17968 times:

Quoting Gman3 (Thread starter):
NY-London authority is being sold to Delta.

NY-London as in NY-LHR??? or is it just Gatswick we are talking here for Delta.


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17968 times:

I am very surprised that they have given up on the JFK-NRT/LHR routes. I guess they view that the corporates up front in F & J will simply be happy to go through IAD or ORD. Another LHR route gone!!!

User currently offlineCOEWRNJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1065 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17921 times:

Why did they have to sell their route authority to DL? Can't anyone fly NYC-LON?

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4760 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17921 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 4):
NY-London as in NY-LHR??? or is it just Gatswick we are talking here for Delta.

It's to Gatwick as DL isn't part of the B2 agreement.

This is however, an important route acquisition for Delta as they have long sought a NYC-London link.

Congrats to Delta!



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineGman3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17921 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 4):
NY-London as in NY-LHR??? or is it just Gatswick we are talking here for Delta

Just Gatwick. Delta also released a statement welcoming the new JFK-LGW route.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3596 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17921 times:

Does this also mean the UA is selling it's LHR slots or will they use them for ORD or IAD?

How much is DL paying UA?


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17881 times:

We had this very discussion a couple weeks ago, myself and a couple other posters predicted UAL would drop these two routes but others cited as UAL777UK has their corporate contracts as reason why they would not drop the routes.

I think the expense of operating such an isolated station for UAL at JFK was just too much, for business travel from JFK,LGA,EWR they have Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17831 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
I think the expense of operating such an isolated station for UAL at JFK was just too much, for business travel from JFK,LGA,EWR they have Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco.

Yeah, but which business traveller in her right mind will take a connecting flight from New York to London Heathrow when she has a choice of about 20 nonstops daily?


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17800 times:

sad day for UA in NYC and further fuels UA's need for a merger. You can't be a global carrier and not compete in NYC. But you also can't continue to lose money - something UA has done in NYC for a long time. And the bleeding is only getting worse as DL expands at JFK.

First, DL "stole" one of UA's US-Brazil frequencies, now London, and UA has set up DL to be able to start JFK-NRT. I'd almost think UA is setting themselves up (ORD, SFO, and the Pacific) to be acquired by DL.  Smile


User currently offlineAwysBSB From Brazil, joined Sep 2005, 565 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17800 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 5):
I am very surprised that they have given up on the JFK-NRT/LHR routes. I guess they view that the corporates up front in F & J will simply be happy to go through IAD or ORD.

That change was expected… IAD is a great hub which also serves NYC, so UA does not need focus on JFK.
Is there any plan for UA leave T7 of JFK?

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
You can't be a global carrier and not compete in NYC.

It is hard an airline be global without following the hub-and-spoke paradigm.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
And the bleeding is only getting worse as DL expands at JFK.

I do not like to see DL growing at JFK too… I would prefer to see they expanding at BOS

[Edited 2006-07-28 16:13:58]

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17766 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 9):
Does this also mean the UA is selling it's LHR slots or will they use them for ORD or IAD?

Well, it could be a clever move on UA's part to sell the slot to DL and make a few bucks, then if open skies opens up LHR, then there is more oppurtunity for them to expand. Although whether they get decent slots is another thing all together!

I dont believe for one minute they will bail out of LHR altogether.


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17766 times:

So please explain to me this:


What happened to UA's JFK - LHR route? Are they still operating it or will they completely cease that route? How about EWR - LHR?

It seems to me that the only carriers now on the JFK - LHR route will be AA, BA, VS, AI and KU. Am I wrong?

[Edited 2006-07-28 16:05:12]


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineMalpensaSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17729 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
We had this very discussion a couple weeks ago, myself and a couple other posters predicted UAL would drop these two routes but others cited as UAL777UK has their corporate contracts as reason why they would not drop the routes.

I think the expense of operating such an isolated station for UAL at JFK was just too much, for business travel from JFK,LGA,EWR they have Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco.

STT757,

We have been at odds before, but you have summed it up perfectly. These two routes, all be it prestige only served a niche market that seems to be swaying in the way of the airlines with the most power in the NYC market. Although shocking the changes will come so soon. This was something that sadly has been bound to happen at one time or another. The next question is with the dropping of the JFK-NRT/LHR will UAL continue its JFK service or consolidate the IAD service to LGA, and the LAX/SFO Trans-Con P.S. product to Newark?


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4760 posts, RR: 44
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17729 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 14):
Well, it could be a clever move on UA's part to sell the slot to DL and make a few bucks, then if open skies opens up LHR, then there is more oppurtunity for them to expand. Although whether they get decent slots is another thing all together!

I dont believe for one minute they will bail out of LHR altogether.

Yes and no in some ways. If openskies opens up LHR, DL is already in the process of securing necessary slots for 2 daily ATL-LHR and 2 daily JFK-LHR...these will come first from their partner over in France...

Interesting times ahead.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 982 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17654 times:

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 13):
IAD is a great hub which also serves NYC

IAD is a great hub, yes...but it most certainly does not serve NYC. It might be fair to say it serves the Northeast and competes with NYC, but does not serve it.



"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11819 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 15 hours ago) and read 17592 times:

A few thoughts on this news:

First off, who would have ever thought five years ago that by 2006, both Northwest and United (the "corporate successor" of Pan Am across the Pacific) would have both pulled out of the flagship New York-Tokyo route, and American, which didn't even enter the market until after the millenium, would be thriving on it?

Second, I have to hand it to them, this is another smart move by United -- this completes their gradual elimination of JFK as an important gateway within their system. It is now simply relegated to an outstation served by p.s. to LAX/SFO, and Express to IAD, but it has lost its place as a key United gateway. This is prudent on United's part, as fighting at JFK against American and Delta, to say nothing of Continental across town at EWR, was hopeless. (Reminiscent of United's also smart move to forget about MIA and leave it to American.) This is also smart on United's part because they can make a little cash off the sale of the authority to Delta, without actually having to give up the really valuable asset -- the Heathrow slots -- and still focus resources on bigger, better markets, like Washington-Tokyo, which should do quite well with the huge United feed at both ends.

Two quick questions that these developments bring up on the United side:

1. What will happen to the daily slot currently being used for the daily JFK-LHR-JFK rotation? Perhaps a fifth daily IAD-LHR, or another flights to ORD? Or will they sell it for big bucks like the last slots they gave up?

2. With United starting Dulles-Tokyo, and stepping on the toes of what has been for several years ANA's sovereign territory, and with United refusing to give ANA access to its O'Hare Terminal 1 gate space, does this signal any tangible shift in United's relationship with ANA, or just business as usual?

Finally, Delta is going to have fun trying to be competitive on JFK-LGW. It reminds me of their intense optimism with BOS-Gatwick back in the summer of 2001. With over 20 daily flights from the New York metro area to Heathrow, a higher-yielding and far more in-demand airport, why does Delta think that JFK-LGW will be any different than BOS-LGW, where they got their head handed to them by AA and BA who flew to Heathrow? Now, JFK may fair a bit better because it serves a larger O&D market, and will benefit from Delta connections, but I still don't see it being around long-term.

Should be interesting to watch ...


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 17539 times:

Why on earth would anyone really want to fly to LGW from JFK when they have LHR. I would have hoped that DL would have tried to buy the LHR authority from UA. Again what's happening with the JFK-LHR slots that UA has?


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 17539 times:

What happens to their current 2 flights to TPE from Nagoya and NRT?

If I remember correctly there is a 777 flight SFO-NGO-TPE. Is NGO in any danger or could we hope for a shift to Manila or anything else in East Asia?


User currently offlineBigOrange From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2375 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 17539 times:

So does this mean no United CRJ's at JFK also??

Why could DL not start JFK-LGW without purchasing the route authority? Presumably they had their own slots at both JFK and LGW, and I thought LGW was exempt from the Bermuda II.


User currently offlineAwysBSB From Brazil, joined Sep 2005, 565 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 17505 times:

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 18):
IAD is a great hub, yes...but it most certainly does not serve NYC. It might be fair to say it serves the Northeast and competes with NYC, but does not serve it.

IAD serves NYC for sure!
There are many passengers of Star Alliance flying to/from NYC and the connection options they have are at IAD, YYZ, FRA, CPH and so on.

[Edited 2006-07-28 16:27:12]

User currently offlineGman3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 14 hours ago) and read 17505 times:

Our PS service does quite well ( although it is word of mouth from the "head honchos") However I know that our passengers love it. I have never received a negative comment when working the flight. I would hope it would not disappear and it obviously flies to 2 United hubs so i dont think we have to worry. It is truly a shame the flying we have lost from NY, even from theh end of the 90s.
The truth is that as I am a native of the NYC metro area, I NEVER flew UA growing up. It was AA to the left coast and Delta or Eastern to FLA. United was never a major player and never marketed itself or took an aggressive stance in NY. It is quite evident now.


25 DCAYOW : I think UA finally realized that IAD is their main northeast hub. This has been an evolution. UA probably looked very closely at the success of the tr
26 Alitalia744 : Still part of Bermuda 2...anyway you slice it
27 WorldTraveler : But if you build your network to provide no hub at NYC – the world’s largest air travel market – you cannot be a truly global carrier. AA, CO,
28 DLPMMM : Commavia, Good points. There may be enough O&D between the south and east of London and NYC to make this work for DL. Is there anyone else flying JFK-
29 BigOrange : NH will probably pick up extra business from JFK to make up what they lose at IAD.
30 MalpensaSFO : Come On! Not evryone wants to or needs to fly into Heathrow... Funny, that the premium business classes only service fly to Stansted, their clients s
31 LH417AF025 : so this does mean that UA does not lose an LHR landing slot right? they just sold the authority to fly NYC-LON.... not NYC-LHR??
32 Post contains links Commavia : My, how times change.
33 STT757 : The long rumored CO/UAL merger is looking a little bit more plausible today. I think UAL might test the waters by introducing P.S. to Newark, if thei
34 Alitalia744 : They keep the LHR slot but lose the authority to fly from New York City to London (Any airport). They can fly an additional flight from one of their k
35 DLPMMM : A quick look at Travelocity shows no airlines flying JFK-LGW non-stop. With no competition on the route, this might be a very smart move by DL.[Edited
36 TinPusher007 : Star Alliance pax aside, that is a relatively small number of pax compared to the local NYC market that is served by JFK, EWR, LGA and to a lesser ex
37 MalpensaSFO : Is the 3rd daily SFO-LHR flight coming back? Or is UAL going to sell the slot to another airline?
38 RayChuang : I think UA is phasing out JFK-LHR because there is already huge competition on this route with AA, BA, and VS flying multiple flights per day on this
39 Sshank : Clearly not some one who places any value on time. This can only mean UA is totally walking out of the NYC market. Sad, but likley a prudent move - th
40 RoseFlyer : Trying to be everything everywhere is not the most successful strategy for an airline. Gordon Bethune admitted that Continental tried to be too much
41 UAL777UK : I dont think they will sell it, i think I am right in saying they leased a slot to VS until such time as they wanted it. I would not be surprised if
42 Swank300 : I'm sad too! I thought they would work something out to keep operating both those flights! But, bottom line is: United NEEDS to make money. Also guys,
43 Jrlander : Continental seems to do perfectly well on EWR-LGW. With the increasing domestic feed at JFK, plus the O&D, plus the number of loyal Delta FF's in NYC,
44 RayChuang : I think UA is using its SFO hub go step up transpacific service, which is still quite profitable for the airline. That's why UA has kept most of its
45 TinPusher007 : UA JFK-South America service ended a long time ago. They are strictly UAX to IAD and p.s. to LAX and SFO; not even DEN or ORD is served from JFK by U
46 RJpieces : Sad news...No more United widebodies at JFK, wow. I wonder now...They could probablty consolidate their JFK operation in 2 or 3 gates as opposed to th
47 WorldTraveler : DL is delivering on being the number one airline across the Atlantic (which is not just to Europe) and also to be the #1 carrier in the NY state part
48 MalpensaSFO : Then Continental Airlines needs to do what? Gatwick serves more destinations than most people would think.. Astraeus Accra, Alghero, Aqaba, Aswan, Ba
49 TinPusher007 : This is true. It always seemed to make more sense to me for UA to focus its northeast strength on IAD. I was at a loss to understand why they didn't
50 AwysBSB : New York market does not support more than three hubs of full-service carriers and AA, DL & CO are the ones which already hold those hubs. However, N
51 FlyDreamliner : NW supsended their JFK-NRT - and they have a hub in NRT, so I'm not surprised it didn't work out for UA, the route just doesn't have enough demand. J
52 PlaneGuy27 : BA used to have a JFK-LGW Gatwick service. I thought I had heard somewhere that the Gatwick Express train from Victoria was not going to be nonstop in
53 Quig : What really surprises me is their will no longer be a Star Alliance flight between LHR & JFK, two of the largest markets in the world. What are the ch
54 Jaysit : If New York - Tokyo doesn't have enough demand, then I don't know what does. Here we have 2 of the world's largest financial and economic centers, an
55 Airbazar : This is a joke right? When I think of global carrier, none of the above carriers really come to mind. There are plenty of global carriers who do not
56 MAH4546 : There is a reason no airline flies JFK-LGW. It has been tried, unsuccessfully, in the past. I'm not saying that Delta won't do well, I don't know, bu
57 Gigneil : They aren't. N
58 Dutchjet : Thats the key question the market will be looking at.....given a choice, will pax (especially premium pax) automotically opt for Heathrow? We shall s
59 TinPusher007 : But one thing to remember is that all of the above mentioned carries except DL all have rights to LHR. The LGW services that they attempted simply ma
60 AF022 : Any guesses as to how much UA sold the authority for?
61 Alitalia744 : $13 Million plus $2million/year until for four years unless Open Skies allows DL to fly into LHR - at that point the payment stops.
62 MalpensaSFO : AA also flew ORD-STN, ORD-LGW both with 762...
63 JetBluefan1 : That makes no sense. First of all, Song was consolidated back into DL. As of now, DL has an actual hub at JFK, hence why they are expanding onto the
64 Dutchjet : Up to $21 million......$13 million on the table and $2 million a year for the next four years....if an Open Skies deal is reached, then the amount to
65 PlaneGuy27 : I believe that in the 1998 US/Japan protocol agreement, Delta does not have rights to serve Tokyo from New York so it is a moot point. The long and s
66 Piercey : Wow... A widebodiless JFK for UA? Somebody check the tempeture in hell... Call me crazy, but DEN? I know UA wants to keep it domestic, but the city co
67 Kiwiandrew : BII would not permit DEN-LHR for UA ( but if UA started DEN-LGW then BA would have to shift their DEN service to LGW as well - does anyone know what
68 WorldTraveler : Which perhaps shows why your opinion is not indicative of the truth. UA is #4 in the US-Europe and US-Latin America markets. AA, CO, and DL all are #
69 Dutchjet : Both of which were dumped in favor of ORD-LHR........are you saying that the JFK-LGW will work or wont work? Denver is not an option.....if UA flies
70 Commavia : IINM, AA never flew ORD-LGW. They did fly ORD-STN, back in 1992, but the route lasted less than a year. To my knowledge, the only routes AA has ever
71 RDUDDJI : How convienient...you forgot to mention Asia and Australia. Newsflash: Eurupe is not the whole World. If you ask a traveller West of the Int'l date l
72 AwysBSB : You should try to be more friendly in your replies. IAD serves NYC through flights between IAD and NYC airports. I do not understand why that makes n
73 Piercey : Alright, thanks. Hmm, surprised they aren't selling the slots, then. Unless they're planning to beef up ORD or IAD
74 Sparkingwave : This is truly sad news. It almost seems like UA is retrenching in a similar fashion as Pan Am did, except in reverse; Pan Am severed its Pacific Oper
75 Apodino : I think one thing being forgotten here is not only does DL have the O and D at JFK, but they have plenty of feeder traffic as well. With all the Dash
76 Post contains images RwSEA : Oh, how nice it would be to see UA bring back their SEA-LHR service . BA manages to fill 10x weekly 744's - there is certainly room for a daily UA 77
77 FlyDreamliner : UA acquired by DL, that might be most unbelievably rediculously thing I've ever heard. UA is setting themselves up for profitability, and capitalizin
78 MalpensaSFO : Not happening.. It is a huge audience that obviously cannot and will not be ignored.. It depends on who you talk to.. WILL
79 Alitalia744 : DL can do two things: 1) Use their two 777s being delivered next year on the route or 2) Pull 777s from ATL-LGW/FRA/CDG and CVG-CDG to fly the JFK-NR
80 ORDTerminal1 : nah, i wouldn't call it that. UA is doing exactly what it needs to. By moving the Tokyo flight to Dulles, UA will get more feed than it ever would at
81 United Airline : Once a slot is sold, can the airline re-enter that route/market? If yes, how?
82 MalpensaSFO : That would fall into the same realm as: HP taking over US The 777 could/may be taken from CVG-CDG/ATL-FRA/ATL-LGW traded out for ATL-JFK-NRT service.
83 RwSEA : At this point, it looks like UA could only re-enter the market in the event of open skies, or unless DL wanted to sell it back. Even if there were op
84 FXramper : Look for AA to add JFK-LHR routes when they order their 787 this fall! Regards.
85 TinPusher007 : Okay, in that theory, EVERY airport that has service to NYC SERVES NYC. But IAD is NOT a NYC airport and is not part of the NY Metropolitan area. IAD
86 BigGSFO : Funny I was on an UA flight this a.m. SNA_SFO and heard two F/A's chatting about this and I thought "Aw, it's just gossip." Guess not. Wel, good for U
87 TinPusher007 : They already fly JFK-LHR 6X daily. How many more flights cna they add? How many slots do they have?
88 AS739X : Sorry, but I am a left coaster. I'm very excited to see UA building up on SFO. TPE was a matter of time for its return. ICN year-round makes sense. HK
89 B777ER : Exactly my thought. BA and VS put there best product on this route. The elite traverlers that used to fly Concorde to London or New York want the fir
90 Post contains images Garri767 : well this shows plain and simple UA needs a merger NW/UA anyone *gag* Garri767
91 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : Uh Oh.... Here we go again....
92 ScottB : Really? United flies to North America, South America, Europe, Asia, and Australia for a total of five continents. Continental flies to North America,
93 MAH4546 : In the case of AA's BOS/MIA flights, the flights lost money to no ends. They were not even remotely profitable.
94 MasseyBrown : Who is crying that? Admittedly, NYC is relatively less important than it once was; but that is far from saying it's becoming unimportant as a market.
95 WorldTraveler : AA also served LHR.... they were competing against themselves, never a formula for success in any industry but esp. in the airline industry where raz
96 Dutchjet : Why should I?.......you keep posting threads that make absolutely no sense concerning JFK, this is the third or fourth time this week you have made s
97 Humberside : Did DL approach UA for the route authority or has UA been trying to sell it? What would CO's reaction be if they did that? What is their product like
98 Mattnrsa : Everyone seems to be forgetting that UA is GROWING in size as a result of these route changes. If you consider JFK-NRT and IAD-NRT to be almost the sa
99 JetBluefan1 : There is tons of competition there already. TED is UA's LCC, which flies to mainly resort destinations as well as Florida, Vegas, Phoenix, and a hand
100 FlyPNS1 : C'mon. You have to be #1, #2 or #3 in a region in order to be considered global? Who makes up these rules??? The largest continent on the planet wher
101 WesternA318 : For DL to have access to LHR, they would have to buy out ALL of UA's routes, correct? I remember when UA and AA were trying to carve up PA and TW's L
102 Gigneil : Why? N
103 SESGDL : People said the same about DL on JFK-GRU, where they are performing well. DL already plans to start two daily flights from JFK-LGW, so they obviously
104 BigGSFO : So what's going to happen to UA's JFK crew base with the ceasing of these 2 flights?
105 Post contains images FXramper : They have a huge presense at LHR. I'm sure there is a slot to fill on that route. I sure thought UA was giving AA a run in this market, guess not! I'
106 Commavia : Well, I think that long-term the route's performance remains to be seen, but certainly the VARIG situation has helped Delta tremendously. I wish Delt
107 JFKLGANYC : "What exactly is your definition of "global"? US and Europe only? They are also, still only 1 of 2 US carriers operating the ultimate symbol of a glob
108 TinPusher007 : I think you hit the nail right on the head. I don't think the powers that be at DL have any dillusions about the challenges they face on this route.
109 Dutchjet : You are very much correct in your analysis......how the governments came to their conclusions was a bit more complicted. Only one thing to add, both
110 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : Doesnt that train of thought make a.net such a great place?
111 Sllevin : I think DL is figuring that there's enough Skyteam-oriented O&D passengers (coupled with their new focus on JFK ops) to support a flight from JFK in
112 Jetlanta : BINGO! They are taking what they can get. Seriously, there are no illusions at Delta that this think might suck for years. Maybe they can make it wor
113 STT757 : As mentioned the Latin America routes for UAL left JFK years ago, these two routes (LHR and NRT) and the last of the International flying for UAL at
114 Commavia : My thoughts exactly. My guess is that Delta is hedging its bets on a "piece-meal," step-wise liberalization process for the U.S.-E.U. bilateral. Of c
115 BigGSFO : This is of course the gamble. AA and UA took a similar gamble when they acquired the rights to Heathrow in the 1980's. In theory, Bermuda 2 could hav
116 Deputydawghere : That will never happen.
117 WorldTraveler : Some of you will argue until you are blue in the face to prove otherwise but the fact that AA, CO, and DL all are #1, 2, or 3 in 2 regions of the worl
118 STT757 : UAL has plenty of space at EWR, B6 is not expanding at EWR as many had predicted so they will not be acquiring gates from UAL. Spruce up the A-2 conco
119 StarGoldLHR : This is indeed bad news. I have a collection of Boarding passes from LHR-JFK/EWR-LHR spanning 7 years almost all with United. I must have at least 40
120 Deputydawghere : Help me out here. Delta has how much exposure in the Pacific?
121 RDUDDJI : Unless you're an airline that wants to make money. HELLO!!!, the only reason U.S. carriers are reporting profits is because they shrank the amount of
122 Post contains images 777fan : Totally agree on this one! Very limited - they rely on their SkyTeam relationship with KE. 777fan
123 RJpieces : Any idea how they come up with that? Lawyers from both airlines sit down and hammer it out or what?
124 Post contains images Jacobin777 : don't forget, UA is starting IAD-KWI services soon too... I wish AA didn't end their SJC-TPE route..or at least restarted it with SFO-TPE...AA has al
125 StarGoldLHR : I was surprised SFO-TPE was dropped in the first place. This route was always packed out, and at the other end passengers were always being asked to v
126 Dutchjet : Thats an interesting question.......I guess the amount was negotitated based upon the present value of the potential stream of revenue from the route
127 FlyPNS1 : Then you must really think DL is doing a bad job because DL is shrinking. It's so funny to watch you tear at UA, when much of what UA is doing is the
128 Dutchjet : Oh boy, fasten your seat belts, this is gonna get ugly.......
129 Bnamaxx : Lets not forget the short lived Nashville nonstops. Everyone keeps mentioning "when" LHR opens up. At the current pace of negotiations, does anyone e
130 Dutchjet : Its gonna happen....there was movement in the recent talks; the big problem is what the UK wants in return for increased LHR access.....now the big i
131 Bnamaxx : Dutchjet, BTW, thanks for the scoop on BA in DEN and PHX. I've always been somewhat confused on that (and when they had the SAN-LHR route).
132 Commavia : Too true. I forgot those -- what was that, 1992-1994(1995?)?
133 WorldTraveler : yet some airlines are cutting capacity without reducing their network footprint. In other words, DL's reduction has almost entirely been accomplished
134 JFKLGANYC : "Spruce up the A-2 concourse and renovate and expand the Red Carpet Club room and they are in good shape to expand their Trans-Con flying from EWR, al
135 Bnamaxx : Yep, it was around that time - they had already started to retrench at BNA so any chance for connecting passengers was doomed and there was little hi
136 Planecrazy2 : I don't understand why you think UA would abandon the p.s. flights from JFK. NYC is a huge destination and those flights both come from UA hubs on the
137 PVD757 : To be honest, I always thought of JFK as a good jumping point for international connections, or even an international gateway if you're comming to the
138 Ualcsr : You really have a problem with UA, don't you. How does UA's decision to not focus on Latin America translate into DL becoming the eminent US airline
139 ORDTerminal1 : Two questions...would UA ever consider moving their P.S. service to LGA? Is it even plausible? 2nd) Is there a law that prohibits transcon flights in
140 Deputydawghere : He appears to be the expert on forecasting carrier's future positions in the industry. No disrespect to Delta, as I think they're a great carrier, bu
141 MalpensaSFO : Not currently, unless the boys in D.C. pull there out of touch heads out of other peoples business and start to worry about things here on U.S. soil.
142 Glareskin : Seems to me this is an outstanding chance for Privatair to open LGA - LCY. The ideal connection for business travellers. As for UA: please try JFK -
143 Tsaord : Whats do bad about LGW to a regular common flyer who doesn't care that a 747 is next to their gate?
144 JasonCRH : a perimeter rule prohibits any chance of any airline ever flying LGA-LCY. airlines arent even allowed to fly nonstop LGA-west coast, so dont expect LG
145 Glareskin : I thought this rule had to do with the size of the aircraft. And PrivatAir could use the special A318 that even can land and take-off from LCY. Well
146 Aaron747 : The NRT-TPE and NGO-TPE tags aren't going anywhere. The cargo business alone between Japan and TPE is very robust. In NGO's case, the connections betw
147 Starlionblue : Perimeter rule or not, the LCY runway is probably too short and with too steep an ascent angle to handle an A318 doing LCY-LGA.
148 WorldTraveler : That's a nice refrain to try and justify UA's continued erosion in the global international marketplace other than to/from Asia. But the fact remains
149 HZ747300 : I'm actually booked on that NRT-JFK flight on a mileage award ticket in November. I called UA just now and they told me that the system would automati
150 STT757 : 2 or 3 flights to ORD from EWR? Were being a little dramatic, they currently have 9 or 10.
151 Jamake1 : Mmmm Hmmm...Such as Delta's successful LAX-Asia and PDX-Asia service.
152 Post contains links Glareskin : The regular A318 can do this. See page 7 of the following document. http://www.ifalpa.org/if_news/IFALPANews06NWS011.pdf I figure that a business ver
153 ORDflier : The fact remains, UA opted to end an unprofitable segment between JFK-LHR. And opted to move a flight from NRT-JFK to IAD. Although UA cannot easily g
154 Jamake1 : Uh huh...How about Delta's hub at DFW? SFO-BOS? PDX-Asia? LAX-Asia? Keep spinning, WT.
155 Commavia : I think United may just be better of selling the slot for a hefty sum like they did the last time around, especially as it has really good times that
156 JasonCRH : full flights do NOT necessarily mean profit. Yes, AMS-ORD is full in the summer, but UA pulls the route in the winter because the high yield revenue i
157 Post contains images Glareskin : In the winter as well. Are they going to stop flying this route? Source? I wouldn't only be surprised, but most of all very disappointed. I've always
158 AussieItaliano : DL tried that already. Remember the PDX flights to several points in Asia? Also, where would DL fly from? They have no hub on the West Coast. This is
159 UA772IAD : Some of you are overly dramatic. New York is important but it is not the end all airport that "must" have Yeah Right. New York is the only city in the
160 Post contains images SESGDL : Atlanta is as major a city as any other. Atlanta happens to be a city with a metropolitan area of over 4.2 million, 35 million O&D passengers (more t
161 Post contains images StarGoldLHR : An A318 can do LCY, but LGA doesnt have customs/immigration facilities does it ? I would love this route Reality bites.. I have flown LHR-JFK and JFK
162 Deputydawghere : Very well said my friend.
163 Zone1 : A UA plane in the southeast? Let me get my spotting gear! In all seriousness I doubt UA will be pulling that many customers from DL in the southeast
164 Mattnrsa : With no hub west of the relatively small SLC, this won't be happening any time soon, if ever. DL/CO/AA won't be huge in Asia for the same reason UA w
165 SQ452 : I wonder how ANA feels about this. I'm kind of surprised actually to see that UA put NRT on to the block from IAD...I would have expected to see possi
166 Post contains links YYZYHZ : To those wondering where the ex JFK-LHR slot will go...the answer is Air Canada, in a 3 year lease deal as per this article... http://msnbc.msn.com/id
167 Dutchjet : Its impossible.......LGA is not set up for international arrivals even if the airplane could do the route. All international flights into LGA (Bermud
168 Stargoldlhr : AC has a late evening departure to Toronto (at 2105) I bet AC will add switch a YYZ to the lucrative UA955/6 slot and run the St John flight in the T
169 Post contains images Glareskin : I know, there's no customs at LGA. I was just underlining the capabilities of the aircraft in this post. Anyway, another dream destroyed by rationali
170 USPIT10L : 1994-95.
171 Humberside : There are a limited number of beyond perimeter slots at DCA. I think AS already flies DCA-LAX so I doubt UA would have any chance of being able to fl
172 Avatordon : I have a hunch NH will maintain its schedule in IAD in spite of new competition from UA. NH and UA serve somewhat different markets (NH is more Japane
173 UAL777UK : BMI will jump in and do the route when open skies are agreed. No, not with Bermuda 2 being in place but when that is scrapped UA will I am sure go fo
174 ORDTerminal1 : Err...what? United is extremely Japanese focused...they wouldn't operate a major focus operation out of Tokyo if they weren't. If you are referring t
175 Bobnwa : Any flight between the U.S. and Japan had better be Japanese focused as Japan supplies the major part of the passengers on all carriers. This is also
176 STT757 : Im just wondering but does the weak dollar mean anything for US airlines when it comes to whether they sell their seats to Americans paying in US Doll
177 StarGoldLHR : UA offers a very good Japanese service, I have experienced this a number of times and flown that JFK-NRT route last summer. UA offers home delivery s
178 Avatordon : I agree 100%, but that is not the reality of the situation. I was hired by a Japanese carrier away from UA for the simple reason that since the Japan
179 AwysBSB : Ok, I realize all of you are right! I see the word “serve” is not good for qualifying the relationship UA`s hub at IAD has with the airports of t
180 Jacobin777 : certainly AA, NH....with loads of other carriers such as UA, DL, and NW offering 1-stop services, also, there is CO's EWR-NRT-EWR flight cheers.
181 FlyDeltaJets : THey only have 5 gates now in the evening the gave one back to BA for thier night ops. LGA is not an international airport regardless facilities it h
182 StarGoldLHR : I just flew from LGA to Montreal last week. I'm fairly certain Canada is not a US State. It also has various caribbean flights. All these "Internatio
183 ASTROJET707 : I am really enjoying this thread. On the JFK-LGW-JFK portion, I would imagine with DL's expansive customer base that the LGW flight(s) will be full...
184 Cch362 : This might be the case now, but if and when the Gatwick Express ends service, LGW will no longer be so convenient for those heading to central London
185 FlyDeltaJets : Canada, and a lage portion of the carribean don't count b/c you don't even need you passport to go there. (until Jan.)
186 MAH4546 : By a large portion of the Caribbean, you mean one, because Aruba is the only Caribbean island with pre-clearence. Bermuda, Freeport, and Nassau also
187 UAL777UK : Nonsense...just because Gatwicke Express "may" cease there will be hundreds of trains a day serving London with standard and first class, providing a
188 Post contains links MalpensaSFO : Well you may want to inform the press on that one since Gatwick has a wealth of onward connections. When it comes to service to Gatwick, unlike Heath
189 StarGoldLHR : Nope... Airbus trialed it's A318 there a few months back. Any news on the EMB175 or 195 to be tested at LCY ? I am not American nor Canadian.. I need
190 Airbazar : Continental flies to Australia? Really? I know they have a fairly strong presence in Asia thru Continental Micronesia but Australia? I stand correcte
191 TinPusher007 : Then why is Europe the number one international destination DL serves from ATL? Why, also does DL serve more European destinations from ATL then UA d
192 Centrair : CS flies to CNS from GUM. So, it is not CO mainline. You have to go to GUM first. Most of the flights to CNS are full of Japanese tourists.
193 Bobnwa : Please stand corrected. CO Micronesia has flown to Austrailia (CNS) for years.
194 Bnamaxx : CO does fly to Australia as Air Mike, GUM-CNS 3x weekly on a 738. So technically yes they fly to the continent. Cairns is the airport of choice for t
195 SESGDL : What a dumb statement. DL's ATL hub is the 2nd largest hub from the US to the Atlantic by destinations served, possibly the largest by the number of
196 Cch362 : No question there will continue to be trains between Gatwick and central London. In fact there is currently too much capacity on the Express, causing
197 Halls120 : True. But how many people are going to willingly fly one hour south to ATL so they can connect to an ATL flight to Europe that will be another hour l
198 Jetlanta : I think you'd be shocked how many people would do just that. When you are talking about total elapsed trip times of 10+ hours, a few extra minutes or
199 Halls120 : I agree with you there. Arrival in ATL is much better than JFK. All in all, however, I try to arrive in IAD. Don't much care for the extra 2 hours co
200 ChrisNH : I was thinking the same, but perhaps one-off LGW service might work since the rest of the flow is JFK-LHR. Delta won't try any transatlantic service
201 TinPusher007 : You really answered your own question. ATL draws mainly from the southern half of the country and most heavily in the southeast which is DL country..
202 Jetlanta : I wasn't trying to be literal about the the airports I chose, they were simply some secondary European airports with service from ATL. But the point
203 BigGSFO : The folks in Chicago might disagree, but you make a valid point.
204 Centrair : Anyone want to start a second thread. This thing is getting too long to follow.
205 SESGDL : What about people flying to Europe from SAN, PHX, ONT, LAS, ABQ, DFW, IAH, OKC, SAT, ELP, AUS, TUL, JAN, MSY, BHM, FLL, MCO, TPA, MIA, RSW, MEM, TYS,
206 AAL0616 : What an interesting and lengthy thread, with very good comments. There is nothing much more to say but to offer some personal observations. There is a
207 Halls120 : I agree. As horrid as JFK international arrivals can be, I'm not going to willingly accept a routing to ATL when it means a significantly longer flig
208 Garnetpalmetto : Due to the length of the thread, I'm archiving it.
209 Jetlanta : LOL, you obviously haven't connected much at CDG. People make this choice all of the time. Go read the FlyerTalk boards. You still don't get my point
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