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Gibraltar - Why So Few Flights  
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6018 times:

Gibraltar is close proximity (Less than 2 hours) to the Spanish resorts of Marbella, Estepona and Puerto Banus, and has access to sea ports to Morrocco.

Passenger formalities takes minutes and baggage only a few minutes more..

yet Malaga (2.5 hours away) is burgeoning in passenger flights 24 hours a day, baggage formalities take anything from 30 minutes to 2 hours and there's more delays than passengers.

So why does GIB only have 2x daily LGW, 1x Daily Luton and no other flights ?


The airport has facilities just as good as any Ryan-airport, and access to Spain takes minutes through the border, and it's the only airport I know where you can literally walk across the runway to the city centre.

Gibraltars an oddity of an airport.. the main road crosses the runway and so during a T/o or Landing the main road uses traffic lights to stop the traffic so a plane can move.

Big version: Width: 1536 Height: 1152 File size: 192kb
G-TTOJ British Airways (GB Airways) A320 takes off for LGW, crossing the main road into Gibraltar, 30 Aug 2005 BA 6999.


Given it's ease of use.. why does it only have 3 planes a day (2 are on the ground at the same time, the airport can handle about 4 a/c on the tarmac at any one time).


So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKesflyer From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6010 times:

Don't you think closing the road for arr / dep is a little inconvenient.

Maybe this is the reason why it's preferable to fly elsewhere for airlines.

Besides, I think you need to look at airport fees / charges at GIB which could be much higher than in Spain...


User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6002 times:

Quoting Kesflyer (Reply 1):
Don't you think closing the road for arr / dep is a little inconvenient.

No more than closing a road for a train crossing. (in Europe anyway).
3 mins before, set traffic lights, shooo along walking tourists, bring out a Tank, Machine Guns and Police, plane lands, change the lights hide the army and move on.

(I was exaggerating about the tank, it's a landrover  Smile



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5977 times:

Hm. How about giving us Gibraltar back? Colony days are over.  Smile

As for why the Gibraltar airport isn't used to get to Spain.. the LCCs would be all over GIB if it were cheaper to land there than in Málaga. Then there are the random border patrols with the inevitable long delays and searches.

Not that that would bother any LCCs wanting to fly to Gibraltar. More an inconvenience for passengers after they depart from the airport.

I can also speculate that since GIB is just about 500m from the city center, the inhabitants wouldn't be too pleased with constant jet traffic.

Finally, due to disputes over the position of GIB, i.e. whether it is within Spain or not, the Spanish government has so far successfully excluded Gibraltar from European wide de-regulation initiatives, preventing direct links from Gibraltar to the rest of the European Union (except the UK).

Many different reasons. Málaga is much easier for now, until Gibraltar joins Spain again at least  Wink

cheers

Asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5945 times:

I would say the main reason for the lack of flights to Gibraltar is because Gibraltar is such a small place. Yes, it is close to spanish beach resorts however Gibraltar's population live very close to the airport. If GIB was to become the next AGP then as you can imagine, nearly all of the residents would never get a rest! Also there would be issues in terms of having to close and open the road across the runway for flights every 30 minutes.

Also, I know that there afre flights to LGW and LTN but which route does Monarch fly and which does British Airways fly?

Quoting Asturias (Reply 3):
Hm. How about giving us Gibraltar back? Colony days are over.

Hm. Maybe because nearly all of the population of Gibraltar said that they want to remain under UK control in a recent survey.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 3):
the Spanish government has so far successfully excluded Gibraltar from European wide de-regulation initiatives, preventing direct links from Gibraltar to the rest of the European Union (except the UK).

Personally, I think this is very silly. If airlines want to fly to Gibrlatar, they should be able to. What has any of it got to do with Spain? It is clear to most people who go to Gibraltar that they are entering British territory. For example people are not going to go to Jersey and think that it is not part of the UK!


User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5911 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 3):
Hm. How about giving us Gibraltar back? Colony days are over.

Most of Gibraltars inhabitants are of ethnic Spanish decent, (i.e. they don't look like your average londoner or overweight mancunian). As it is their own rock, and they are of Spanish decent it's not really upto Britain to deciede who owns it, it's them.
I believe 99.99% said they dont want to be Spanish, and I'm fairly confident Britain doesnt care too much to own a colony that doesnt make money either.
Anyway we are all Europeans what does it matter what language they are taught in school.. if it did then Parts of Spain belong to France, other parts are Morroccan, and some others want independance, going back futher Poland is German, German is French and at some point we were nearly all Roman / Italian.. going back further still we were tribes in parts of Africa and we stole Europe off the dinosaurs that roamed the land, so really it's time to get over ourselves and live in harmony.

Besides if Britain forced the Gibraltarians to become Spanish, what would spain do with it ? It's not as if Gibraltar is Hong Kong or some other major money making centre in the world. If Britain handed it back, 99% of the population and all it's prosperity would leave to the UK, leaving what you had 300 years ago.. a worthless lump of stone with a runway.

At least now the neighbouring towns are making a killing from employment and tourism from people visiting.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 4):
Also, I know that there afre flights to LGW and LTN but which route does Monarch fly and which does British Airways fly?

BA flies from LGW (They just started and have stopped already) flights from LHR.
Monarch used to fly from MAN-GIB but terminated the route.

At it's peak this was 5x flights a day.

This winter it will be 3x a day... Monarch from LGW in the afternoon, and 2x daily from LGW (Morning and Evening).



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineDHHornet From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5899 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 3):
Hm. How about giving us Gibraltar back? Colony days are over.

How about we give you and Spain The Isle of Wight?
Does it really matter? God the British have invaded most of Spain anyway. Living the Spanish way (not!). If I was Spanish that would really p me off more than the Gibraltar thing!

I guess if the majority of Gibs want to be British so be it.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 5):
I believe 99.99% said they dont want to be Spanish, and I'm fairly confident Britain doesn't care too much to own a colony that doesn't make money either.

Yep!

Anyway. GIB has a lot of potential if developed .


User currently offlinePulkovokiwi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5899 times:

Well its hardly Paris.

User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5841 times:

Costs of operating of from GIB compared to AGP.

User currently offlineHUYguy From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5766 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 3):
Finally, due to disputes over the position of GIB, i.e. whether it is within Spain or not, the Spanish government has so far successfully excluded Gibraltar from European wide de-regulation initiatives, preventing direct links from Gibraltar to the rest of the European Union (except the UK).

  

That really is the main reason for the so few flights - because flights are only allowed to depart and arrive from the UK.
Also, I was looking on wiki about it, and it said gibraltar has its own airline starting in 2007! FlyGibraltar apparently. Flying to STN, BHX, BRS, MAN, DUB and ORK. How they can fly to ORK and DUB with the above enforcements in place.

Wiki-FlyGibraltar

[Edited 2006-07-29 10:41:46]

[Edited 2006-07-29 10:43:30]

User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5739 times:

There is an article on Gibraltar in one of this month's aviation magazines: Airports I think it is.

Reason is Spain imposes a restriction on Gibraltar traffic. No flights to any EU country except for the UK.


User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5665 times:

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 10):
Reason is Spain imposes a restriction on Gibraltar traffic.

Why do they have such authority to do this? It's pathetic. Gibraltar is not Spain, nor is it ruled by Spain, therefore Spain should not be able to dictate who services GIB and from where?


User currently offlineMainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2097 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5608 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 3):
Hm. How about giving us Gibraltar back? Colony days are over.

Are they? Ceuta and Melilla. Give them back to Morocco.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 5):
I believe 99.99% said they dont want to be Spanish, and I'm fairly confident Britain doesnt care too much to own a colony that doesnt make money either.

Gibraltar's economy makes a whole load of money, for Gibraltar. It doesn't cost the UK taxpayer one bean.


User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5593 times:
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Air Nostrum has applied rights to fly from Spain to GIB.

The answer in september...



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5555 times:

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 13):
Air Nostrum has applied rights to fly from Spain to GIB.

The answer in september...

I Hope this goes through.. this would be a positive landmark

If you can only fly from the UK to Gibraltar how comes Ryanair doesnt give it a go.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineMainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2097 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 14):
I Hope this goes through.. this would be a positive landmark

If you can only fly from the UK to Gibraltar how comes Ryanair doesnt give it a go

I agree that a deal allowing Air Nostrum access to GIB is a good thing, because under more normal circumstances, GIB would have been operating as a dual nationality airport for a long time (like Basle-Mulhouse or Geneva)

However, this is seen in 'some quarters' as being a possible step towards joint sovereignty, which I hope is highly misguided.

The current problem with GIB (I've read somewhere) is that it costs five times as much to operate into than AGP, which explains the current contraction of services by BA and ZB.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2515 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 12):
Quoting Asturias (Reply 3):
Hm. How about giving us Gibraltar back? Colony days are over.

Are they? Ceuta and Melilla. Give them back to Morocco.

Well that's a good answer  Wink Spain was even claiming a small rock 200 m off the coasts of Morocco which is called Perejil island. It was big diplomatic issue some years ago...


Anyway, under Spanish rules, GIB can not have European routes except routes to the UK. It still can have flights to other parts of the work like Tangier or Casablanca. But these service ceased.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineAirways45 From United Kingdom, joined May 2000, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5410 times:

I read that landing fees at RAF Gibraltar are 4 to 5 times that of Malaga, which might explain why Ryanair et al haven't come.


Airways45


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 11):
Why do they have such authority to do this? It's pathetic. Gibraltar is not Spain, nor is it ruled by Spain, therefore Spain should not be able to dictate who services GIB and from where?

well I suppose you have to fly over Spanish airspace and they can restrict that. So a GIB-FRA flight wont be very profitable if they have to fly around Spain.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4923 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 5):
Monarch from LGW in the afternoon

ZB dont fly LGW-GIB, only LTN-GIB



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5367 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 19):
Monarch from LGW in the afternoon

ZB dont fly LGW-GIB, only LTN-GIB

Agreed.. it was my typo.

1x daily LTN Monarch
2x daily LGW BA (GB Airways)



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5312 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 3):
Hm. How about giving us Gibraltar back? Colony days are over.

Self-determination says otherwise. The Gibraltarians say they don't want to be Spanish, so who has the right to force them ? Gibraltar has been a Crown Colony longer than the U.S.A. has been independent (IIRC it was the Treaty of Aix or something, after the war of the Spanish Succession or the 30 years war or some such - anyway, a treaty is a treaty, get over it moveon.org) - stop complaining, you got Menorca back.


User currently offlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4022 posts, RR: 33
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5276 times:

Quoting HUYguy (Reply 9):
it said gibraltar has its own airline starting in 2007! FlyGibraltar apparently

GB Airways is Gibraltars own airline. Back in 1969 when it was called Gibraltar Airways I flew on their DC3 ( G-AMFV) from Tangier to Gibraltar one Sunday morning. Only 4 pax (all spotters!) and they let us stand in the cockpit on the way over. It only moved out of Gibraltar when it expanded and could not fly anywhere.

[Edited 2006-07-29 19:28:24]

User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5712 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4956 times:

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 11):
Why do they have such authority to do this? It's pathetic. Gibraltar is not Spain, nor is it ruled by Spain, therefore Spain should not be able to dictate who services GIB and from where?

Yeah, I agree, but the problem, at least according to our tour guide in 2005 is that in practical terms you have to fly thru Spanish airspace to land there, hence Spain can enforce its ban. Looking down from the top of the Rock, I can belive it!

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineBMED From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 860 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4921 times:

Quoting DHHornet (Reply 6):
How about we give you and Spain The Isle of Wight

Shock!!!! Although we now have flights to London, Guernsey and Jersey with Manchester soon to appear so that would be more than GIB.



Living the jetset life! No better way to be
25 Thowman : 1713 Treaty of Urtrecht. We kept to our side of the bargain, and stopped attacking the Spanish ships bring the gold and silver plunder back from the
26 Post contains images Jamesontheroad : Wow... could this have been Europe's earliest runway? News, however, from The World Travel Market (via Pprune), to bring us back on topic:
27 Post contains links StarGoldLHR : Actually the aircraft does not enter spanish airspace... The approach of this aircraft to the landing strip is quite spectacular.... The aircraft app
28 BA0242 : I think Gibraltar is one of the most interesting places (the town and the airport) in the Iberian peninsula. It is incredible how British it is! I was
29 MainMAN : One should turn one's back on darkest Africa and face toward England when enjoying fish and chips or a cream tea on the Rock. Really, what were you t
30 Post contains images NZ8800 : 1829 x 46m. A question: - is a flight from Gibraltar to the UK treated as Domestic, or do you have to go through Customs/Immigration? Are they going
31 JJJ : C & M were Spanish long before there was any 'Morocco' (we're talking XVI century here) while Gibraltar was Spanish before Brit, there's the differen
32 MainMAN : Good! Everyone is happy. If anything, Gibraltar should be seen as a slightly quirky peculiarity......a territorial idiosyncrasy. Makes life more inte
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