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GOL - Has The Short Field B738 PR-GTA Arrived?  
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3955 posts, RR: 18
Posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4427 times:

GOLs first short field 737-800 received certification on Thursday and was due to delivery Friday to GOL as PR-GTA. Has anyone seen it depart/arrive?

 confused 

R

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4387 times:

According to what I heard, PR-GTA will arrive in CNF tomorrow, July 31st, Monday.

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8970 posts, RR: 39
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4370 times:

Will it operate at SDU? It would be the largest aircraft at SDU  eyepopping 

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4358 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 2):
Will it operate at SDU? It would be the largest aircraft at SDU

Not now. This 738 (and some other coming on the next months) will be able to depart/land at airports like SDU (know on Gol as SFP , Short Field Performance). The certification for SDU could take more 1 to 2 months as per ANAC sources, during this GTA will be used probably on GIG-GRU-EZE-SCL.

It departed from BFI and after a technical stop at AUA and them a non stop to CNF where it arrived about 30 minutes ago!

A picture probably will be available very soon

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4344 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
The certification for SDU could take more 1 to 2 months as per ANAC sources, during this GTA will be used probably on GIG-GRU-EZE-SCL.

Gol is anxiously waiting for this plane to start the flights to SCL, because it has an extended oxygen supply (I believe it is an O2 generator) for the passengers (22 minutes), which is necessary to cross the Andes.

As Felipe mentioned, the SDU flights will start in 1 or 2 months from now due to ANAC certification procedures and to the need of more 738SFP frames to serve SCL and the SDU-CGH shuttle service.

It is good to mention that CCS (Maiquetia) is in Gol's pipeline to start very soon, the pilots are already certified (Airline Traffic Control and local operational procedures) it is just missing a few frames to start the route.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4289 times:
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Delivered and some interesting info. PR-GTA become Gol's flagship !

Look to the pictures from Renato Viani while runing a CGH-FLN regular flight
just 30 minutes ago:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/renatoviani/CR4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/renatoviani/CR2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/renatoviani/CR3.jpg

Note: "Time das Aguias" in english means "Eagles Team"

Congratulatios Gol and thanks for my friend and spotter Renato !

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8970 posts, RR: 39
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4259 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
Look to the pictures from Renato Viani while runing a CGH-FLN regular flight
just 30 minutes ago:

EIS today?? Arrived today and already flying pax commercially? Wow. Did they carry pax between CNF and CGH?

Thanks for the info, Felipe!



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5224 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4221 times:

Nice frame! Congrats G3 for your new Flagship!

ghooost77 APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4188 times:

Nice!
This bird will surely fly CGH-SDU soon...
Althought, GOL already used 737-800s on CGH/SDU flights with 130 or 140 pax limit I think...



146 319 320 321 332 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 742 743 744 762 763 772 773 CRJ ER4 100 F50 F27 M11 D10
User currently offlineJrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4127 times:

Does someone know if there are any visual differences between an ordinary B738 and a B738SFP?

User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8970 posts, RR: 39
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 9):


Does someone know if there are any visual differences between an ordinary B738 and a B738SFP?



Quote:
The 737 design enhancements allow operators to fly increased payload in and out of airports with runways less than 5,000 feet long. The design enhancements include a two-position tail skid that enables reduced approach speeds, sealed leading-edge slats that provide increased lift during takeoff, and increased flight spoiler deflection on the ground that improves takeoff and landing performance.

From this Boeing article:

http://www.defesanet.com.br/aviacao/gol_4.htm

Anyone know what a "two-position tail skid" is?

Cheers!



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3865 times:

Boy, I know that SDU is at sea level and that there are no obstructions in the initial climb segment, but a 738 is a pretty big bird to operate out of a 4300 feet runway, particularly since temperatures are often above 35C and at times above 40C.

What passanger load can this plane take on a 40C degree day out of SDU assuming enough fuel to get to CGH? Can it take a full load?



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8970 posts, RR: 39
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 3783 times:

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 11):
What passanger load can this plane take on a 40C degree day out of SDU assuming enough fuel to get to CGH? Can it take a full load?

You made me wonder about one thing. If GTA is to operate CGH-SDU and is to have reduced take-off/landing distances, why are they fitted with winglets? They weigh extra, and are supposedly to help on longer flights and during cruise, not climb. So either the SFP is fine at SDU and the extra weight of the winglets is not a problem, or they are gonna fly GTA somewhere else- somewhere further away. And possibly to a high altitude airport (MEX, LIM, BOG?) that could benefit from these upgrades?

. . . or am I missing something?

Cheers!



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 3774 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 12):
why are they fitted with winglets?

Good question. My take is every 73G/738/739 will be leaving the factory with winglets from now on. The weight penalty is modest and it adds tremendously to the resale value of the plane. Also, as you imply, GOL probably wants the flexibility to fly it on longer routes.

Think about this. SDU-CGH shuttle during the week. GIG-REC or GIG-EZE on weekends. That would get great utilization out of the aircraft since the SDU-CGH shuttle has much lower frequencies on weekends.

Cheers.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8970 posts, RR: 39
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 3733 times:

Question answered, see reply 22 and onwards here:

Winglets Question (by Tonytifao Jul 20 2006 in Tech Ops)

Thanks for th reply, Baron.

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineJrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 13 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 12):
If GTA is to operate CGH-SDU and is to have reduced take-off/landing distances, why are they fitted with winglets?

GTA is the first delivery of Gol's 101 B738SFP frames order (options included). This aircraft will be the workhorse of Gol and will fly not only SDU-CGH-SDU but also all the other routes of Gol's network. Remember that the SFP also has a higher MTOW.


User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3623 times:

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 15):
GTA is the first delivery of Gol's 101 B738SFP frames order

Jrosa do you know what the size of the GOL fleet will be after all the aircraft currently on firm ordered are delivered minus the planned retirements? Is it about 150 planes? If so that would be twice the RG fleet size pre-bankruptcy - incredible.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3615 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 16):
Jrosa do you know what the size of the GOL fleet will be after all the aircraft currently on firm ordered are delivered minus the planned retirements? Is it about 150 planes? If so that would be twice the RG fleet size pre-bankruptcy - incredible.

Around 102 planes, it's their plan for 2011. But it will probably change again and again, and with the incentive provided by the government yesterday (no income tax on leasing) we could really expect more planes!

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3580 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
But it will probably change again and again, and with the incentive provided by the government yesterday (no income tax on leasing)

Does JJ and G3 lease all their planes like RG? Will they all be able to take advantage of the tax break?

And do you mean sales/use tax (I believe it is called ICMS in Brazil)? Or do you actually mean income tax (imposto de renda)?

Thanks.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4689 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3535 times:

Why wasn't/isn't the SDU runway lenghtened ?


Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineJrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3521 times:

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 18):
Does JJ and G3 lease all their planes like RG? Will they all be able to take advantage of the tax break?

G3 used to lease its planes, but it posted a firm+options order with Boeing for the above referred 101 B738SFP. I believe, its not confirmed by G3, that by 2010 it will have a mix of owned and leased aircraft, but the owned aircraft will be a majority.

JJ by its turn did a move a couple of years ago aiming to improve its financial statements, it converted some A320 and A330 lease with option to buy at the end of the agreement to simple lease agreements without the option to buy the plane, with it JJ was able to change the way it accrued those lease payments making them expenses instead of investments.

Now that JJ is in much better shape (from a financial and share price stand point) it is also acquiring aircraft, remember its last Airbus order for 37 aircraft one or two months ago.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 18):
And do you mean sales/use tax (I believe it is called ICMS in Brazil)? Or do you actually mean income tax (imposto de renda)?

The tax relief is relating to the income tax (imposto de renda), making a long story short, since 2003 the Brazilian IRS considered that aircraft lease payments were income generated in Brazil for the foreign lessors, and therefore, the lessors should pay 15% of the lease installment as income tax, but Brazilian law transferred to the Brazilian lessee the tax responsibility for the payment. The lessors understood, correctly by the way, that this income tax was an unilateral act of the Brazilian Government, and all lessors demanded a gross up calculation to transfer this cost to the Brazilian lessee, who had to bear this cost.

With this tax relief, it is a temporary one until 2013 if I recall correctly, the Brazilian lessees will not have to bear this 15% gross up increase in the lease installment.

Regarding the sales/use tax (ICMS the Brazilian VAT, but really worst) the Brazilian airlines are still in talks with the state governments (this is a state tax in Brazil) in order to obtain a relief granted by law. However, there are several judicial decisions already granting this ICMS tax relief on aircraft acquisition to the Brazilian airlines.

I sincerely apologise if this explanation sounds crazy or too complicated to understand, but the Brazilian tax system is not a rational and intelligent one, it is very complicated and it has reflects in the three levels of the federation.


User currently offlineMika From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 2881 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

That´s one sweet looking craft i gotta say!  cool 

User currently offlineJrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3488 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 19):
Why wasn't/isn't the SDU runway lenghtened ?

SDU is a domestic/regional airport and there is no need for a runway capable of receiving a widebody for instance, there are also some maritime navigation issues because SDU is in the middle of the entrance to Rio de Janeiro harbor, to a Marina and really, really close to the ferry (Rio de Janeiro - Niteroi) station. Also, there are some ecologic issues around (Guanabara bay).


User currently offlineCalags From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

If the 737-800SFP can operate in Santos Dumont will it be able to do the same in London City airport? I did a search and the two fields are almost the same length with SDU at 1,323 meters and LCY at 1,319.

Are those 4 meters significant or are there other factors that preclude the 738SFP from flying in and out of LCY?

Thanks.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8970 posts, RR: 39
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3447 times:

Quoting Calags (Reply 23):

Are those 4 meters significant or are there other factors that preclude the 738SFP from flying in and out of LCY?

Steep approach is a big issue at LCY (due to being in the middle of the city and noise regulation, AFAIK), SDU is a normal approach as far as I can tell.

Otherwise, LCY's cooler temperature should be a plus for ops.

Cheers!



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
25 Baron95 : Both are at similar altitudes. Average temperatures at SDU are higher. However SDU has no obstructions in the initial climb segment - it is over wate
26 Calags : Thanks, that clears things up for me. I read somewhere that the A318 has been certified (or is being certified) for LCY. Does it seem likely that Boe
27 Baron95 : I believe that to fly at LCY would require a 5 degree approach path - I'm not sure if the 737 has been certified to do that. I don't think (but I may
28 Post contains images PPVRA : Well, the 736 hasn't sold well and it probably isn't worth putting more money into it. Airbus did probably because of AF and their 13X A318 fleet or
29 Post contains images RobK : Okay, who has info on PR-GTB then?! I don't see it at PAE anymore so I'm assuming it's recently delivered. Does anyone have the details please - calls
30 Hardiwv : Very interesting discussion. Again, congratulations G3 for breaking this ground yet again! Well done and the bird looks great. Was the inaugural fligh
31 LipeGIG : Yes Hardi, with more than 160 pax on board. Yesterday, PR-GTA made a lot of procedures at SDU during the afternoon including several landings and dep
32 Post contains images RobK : No-one has any info then? Apparently flew BFI-Aruba-Belo Horizonte 19-20 August, but no further info . R
33 LipeGIG : Received at CNF on August 20. After, added to the network at GIG replacing the oldest 733, the first aircraft to be returned by Gol (end of lease agr
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