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Fedex And The 757  
User currently offlineMason747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 44 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7403 times:

On another post I heard that Fedex was looking at aquiring about 150 757s. Is this enough to open up the 757 line up again? Any thoughts on this. If this cant open the 757 line up again, where will they get them?

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4036 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7390 times:

I don't think there are 150 757s available...200 and 300 combined. It is an extremely popular aircraft and when airlines and other owners have made them available, they have generally been snapped up quickly.

User currently offlineMason747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7366 times:

Is 150 enough to open the line back up again? The deal would be worth billions to Boeing. Airbus might try to offer the A330.

User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3537 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7350 times:

Quoting Mason747 (Reply 2):
Is 150 enough to open the line back up again? The deal would be worth billions to Boeing. Airbus might try to offer the A330.

No, and the tooling was most likely disposed of when the line was terminated. I'm afraid it's a bit more difficult than just flicking a switch.

I'm really interested to see where you heard this. This stinks of something created right here at a.net.



PHX based
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2489 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7331 times:

I thought the 757/767 lines were the same. 767 is still a possibillity for the Air Force.tankers and I think it's still open.

User currently offlineMason747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7331 times:

There was a post created about this topic. They were looking to replace the 727 because of high costs and to fill a gap near the A310.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7300 times:

The 757 line cannot ever again be opened. There really is no way possible to do it.

The tooling no longer exists, the supply chains have been closed, workers reassigned, etc.

The 757-200 is really honestly not that much bigger than an A310-200. I am not so certain a gap exists.

N


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4019 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7289 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 3):
No, and the tooling was most likely disposed of when the line was terminated. I'm afraid it's a bit more difficult than just flicking a switch.

I'm really interested to see where you heard this. This stinks of something created right here at a.net.

I'm wondering how easy 757s are to come by as well since DL jumped at the chance to grab the ex-TWA 752s with ETOPs as quickly as they did knowing now how shorthanded they were with that airframe. It all makes it very debatable if Boeing terminated the assembly line too quickly on this one. With DL as committed as they are to maintaining a large fleets of 752s for the foreseeable future, I think it would be quite doubtful that FedEx or UPS would be able to get many discards from passenger fleets. Granted there are a number of airports that can easily take a 752 but can't take a DC-10 or MD-11 that FedEx is loaded with, but I think if FedEx wants something of that size they ought to look at Airbus and the A-321 since that is still an open line. The A330 would have some of the same problems in smaller airports that FedEx has with their DC-10s and MD-11s. I'm not sure if they have an "F" version of that frame, but with the demand for 752s being what is rumored here, Airbus could easily up their A-321 production. Could Boeing resurrect the 752 and 753? Probably not.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3007 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7289 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 6):
The 757 line cannot ever again be opened. There really is no way possible to do it.

Well, without starting pretty much from scratch, which Boeing ain't ever gonna do.

So yeah, what you said.

Maybe Boeing can offer an -800F with the short takeoff and landing mods that were recently certified. I wonder what kind of load that would get.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7258 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 7):
The A330 would have some of the same problems in smaller airports that FedEx has with their DC-10s and MD-11s.

More. Much more.

The DC-10 and MD-11 have much smaller wingspans than an A330, even an A330-200.

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 8):
Maybe Boeing can offer an -800F with the short takeoff and landing mods that were recently certified. I wonder what kind of load that would get.

I would counter by saying a -900ER/F would be a superior platform for FedEx and for the world.

Since there is already a -700C, a -900ER/F or /C would be an ideal size difference.

If Boeing does not offer same, I would expect business to flow to A320 and A321 freighter conversions.

N


User currently offlineStarstream707 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7188 times:

737-900F now that's an idea. Basically a 707-120F with more efficient engines (same floor space size I mean). It seems like there was 1 or 2 707-120F's somewhere but not many at all. That would be cool to a see -900F. With as many orders for the -800 series and -900ER that there I'm surprized someone hasn't requested an -800F or -900F from Boeing.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7024 times:

Interestingly, Boeing offered Fedex a good deal on the 757s when sales for the type began to wind down.....Fedex did not take up the offer and Boeing closed the 757 line. (Remember that Fedex took the last 15 72S aircraft years ago in a similiar type deal.) There is no way that Boeing can re-start 757 production....its over, finished and done.

Its unlikely that Fedex would be interested in new build airplanes to replace their 721 and 72S fleets.....it would be second hand airplanes. Fedex has rather low fleet utilization for its shorter haul airplanes to make its network operate, and sometimes airplanes only do one roundtrip per day from a station into a hub and return, not the type of thing that requires a factory fresh airplane for packages and cargo.

With demand for the 757 high and most airlines not planning to retire their 757s in the near-term future, Fedex is going to have a difficult finding airplanes, regardless of whether they are powered by RR or PW engines.


User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2488 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6975 times:

i don't see any futher for the 757F in FedEx fleet, I think its more reasonable to think that Fedex will go for the A320/A321/767-200, since Airbus launched a convertion programm didn't they? And the 767-200 will fit the job as well, combined with a smaller aircraft.

I actually think we might see huge changes in the FedEx fleet in the upcomming 5-7 years. The DC-10/MD-10's seem like getting more and more technical problems each day, and with the rising fuell price its really becomming an expesive plane, i think we might see a 767/777/A330 order in the near future.

[Edited 2006-08-02 13:37:19]

User currently offlineMemphis From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6967 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 6):
The 757-200 is really honestly not that much bigger than an A310-200. I am not so certain a gap exists

On the contrary; I think that the A310-200 is bigger than the 757-200. The 310 is definately wider and the length is about the same.



nocturnal
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12270 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6757 times:

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 4):
I thought the 757/767 lines were the same.

No, the 757 was built in Renton, the 767 is built in Everett. The space that formerly was used for building the 757 is now used for a 2nd 737 production line.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineCOIAH756CA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 506 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6655 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 14):
the 757 was built in Renton, the 767 is built in Everett. The space that formerly was used for building the 757 is now used for a 2nd 737 production line.

 checkmark 

I think that the 757 would look great in FedEx colors. I'm getting tired of seeing the A300 all over the place.



Long live Denver-STAPLETON. RIP the old and best KDEN
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6624 times:

The only rumors that I have heard floating around is that FEDEX may be a potential A330-200F customer. There is always a possibility of FEDEX getting 757s but where are they going to get 150 of them? They would have to snap up all of United's and then find another airline for 40-60+ more aircraft.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineDvk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1058 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6613 times:

Isn't it likely that the oldest 757's will begin retiring from commercial fleets in the next couple of years, allowing for conversions to cargo configuration? While the 757 had a slow start with orders initially, there are still a significant number of 752's that are 20+ years old.


I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
User currently offlineJonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6603 times:

Quoting Mason747 (Reply 2):
Airbus might try to offer the A330.

The A330 is in a different size category, more a DC-10 replacement. The competitor for a 757F is an A320/A321P2F solution (P2F: pax to freighter)

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 7):
I think if FedEx wants something of that size they ought to look at Airbus and the A-321 since that is still an open line

The line is open but the A321P2F would not come from Toulouse or Hamburg. The A320-A321P2F solution is a conversion solution, ie converting already manufactured pax aircraft into freighters. Similar to what EFW does in Dresden with A300 and A310.

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 12):
since Airbus launched a convertion programm didn't they?

There is an agreement (announced in June 2006) between EFW, Airbus and Irkut for engineering and conversion work. The agreement still has to be formally finalized.


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4453 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6583 times:

Does anyone have any information backing up this claim or possible rumor?


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6563 times:

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 12):
And the 767-200 will fit the job as well, combined with a smaller aircraft.

The 767-200 is bigger than an A310... and the A310-300 (depending on the 767) more fuel efficient.

Lets see if they rip through all the A310-300s first, then turn to the 767.

Quoting Memphis (Reply 13):
On the contrary; I think that the A310-200 is bigger than the 757-200. The 310 is definately wider and the length is about the same.

Oh I completely agree, the A310-200 is bigger than the 757-200. But I do not believe it is enough bigger than a 727-200 to warrant another type, especially as light and cheap as the A310-200 is.

N


User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3473 posts, RR: 67
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 6543 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 20):
The 767-200 is bigger than an A310... and the A310-300 (depending on the 767) more fuel efficient

Are you saying that Boeing really didn't win the bet with TWA more than 20 years ago that the 767 was more fuel efficient than the A310?

I don't think that any version of the A310 is more fuel efficient than any version of the 762.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineMemphis From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6365 times:

I don't like the idea of replacing an aircraft such as the 727, yet it will happen, someday. I have heard that FedEx has been trying to replace the A/C for years, yet for one reason or another, have not been able to follow through. They are an incredible A/C, a true workhorse, easy and quick to load/un-load, and they are paid for. The only draw-backs I see are: age, the 3 man cock-pit, and fuel burn. INHO, if availability was not an issue, I think that the 757 would indeed be the best replacement for the 727. The width of the cabin is close to that of the 727, just longer, and taller. Another issue facing FedEx with the 757 is gate space, a 757 roughly takes up 1.5 gates to every 2 for a 727.

Quoting COIAH756CA (Reply 15):
I think that the 757 would look great in FedEx colors.

I agree, I think it would look awesome!

P.S. I think FedEx should indeed pursue the 757, we must keep a healthy balance of Airbus, Boeing, and DC/MD!



nocturnal
User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6268 times:

"The 767-200 is bigger than an A310"

No, they have the same size in terms of pax numbers.The B762 is longer, the A312 is shorter, but has a wider fuselage.

 Smile


User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5371 times:

Yes this is just a rumor that has been going on for years not just at A.Net but at Fedex also. It's very hard to find a 727 replacement, I think right now they'll just find more 310/300s.

25 Post contains images Gigneil : Oh come come now, an A310-200 maybe. But an A310-300 vs a 767-200? CF6-80C2s vs JT-9Ds and -80As? Perhaps... we should count square footage. N
26 Brons2 : BTW, the current FedEx fleet: 31 MD11s (30 on order) 36 A300 44 A310 73 McDonnell Douglas DC 10-10s (9 on order) 22 McDonnell Douglas DC 10-30s 152 Bo
27 TrevD : Wow, someone quick go tell Continental, US Airways, LOT, Malev, Thomsonfly that their 762's don't have CF6-80C2's on them !!
28 Airlinelover : Aren't the MD-11 and the DC-10 lines completely finished??? Unless they are all conversions. Also, I don't ever recall seeing a freighter version of
29 Thering : What about the ATRs??
30 Gigneil : Those are all 767-200ERs, friend. N
31 Cf6ppe : What is the source of the above quoted data..?? The FedEx website as of the time of this post lists the following fleet inventory: 671 aircraft, incl
32 Dispatcher : You may want to verify your source there Brons2..
33 TrevD : So? The ER went to range not fuel efficiency!
34 Gigneil : And where do you think some of that range came from? CF6-80C is a significantly quieter and more fuel efficient aero engine than the -80A. N
35 Jetfixr757 : Contrary to what you all may hear, I know of 2 757's that have been scrapped already, due to time and cycles, one in Britain and one in Florida, both
36 TrevD : Back to the topic at hand... Believe Fedex will opt for the 757 and the only other a/c in contention is the 737-400. Know they've been looking at some
37 Jetfixr757 : I saw a picture a year or so ago of a 37-300 getting a cargo door and one completed, i was told they were for FE, but i guess they went to KH, a bit o
38 OldAeroGuy : What features did the A313 have that made it more fuel effecient than even a 762? The basic A312 was so far behind the 762 in fuel efficiency that th
39 Post contains links and images COIAH756CA : Sorry, a bit a off topic from Fedex. Just thought I would share. Well said.. I definitely love to fly the 762. The 764 beats it, but the 762 just has
40 Revelation : C'mon, they are fine aircraft for the job that they are being applied to. They have also been plentiful and cheap. What else could FedEx ask for? And
41 BaylorAirBear : Regarding the 180 degree turn, are those numbers in feet? And, how would I interpret them? In example, does the 752 reguire a space 125 feet wide to
42 HAWK21M : Any link to this FEDEX 150 idea. regds MEL
43 Yyz717 : I don't see Fedex buying 752's to replace the 722 fleet, for several reasons: 1. The 752 capacity is v close to the 312/313 fleet. 2. A 752 fleet (as
44 COIAH756CA : Imagine all the sudden if you just decided to make a 180 degree turn to your left. You finish the turn, you required a space with the radius of XXX f
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