Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
BA: Fleet Renewal Update  
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 12 months 3 days ago) and read 14923 times:

Bloomberg is reporting that BA will probably report report profits of £125M ($235M) for the latest quarter, up 39% for a year earlier.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...l_en&refer=europe&sid=a2uj1vja5KrI

What the article goes onto mention is that investment in new "long-haul" aircraft will cost £1BN ($1.87BN) a year for the next 10 years. It also mentions their agreement with Boeing for 10 T7's between 2008-2010, which will become firm orders once their pension deficit is sorted, which should be soon.

So I guess the question is: Will they replace their 744's with 777/787's, or order some 748i's as well. Or go with the A380, seeing as T5 at LHR can accommodate almost anything?

68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14909 times:

The B 747-400s will remain in service with BA for another 10 years according to Rod Eddington and Walsh.

What B 777 model will BA order? Will this include the B 777-200LR? The B 777-200LR will allow them to start services like LHR-MEL/LHR-SYD nonstop etc. Don't think this order will replace anything.

I suppose BA will order the B 747-8 to replace their B 747-400s when it comes to replacement. Not sure about the A 380


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 2, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14816 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 1):
What B 777 model will BA order? Will this include the B 777-200LR? The B 777-200LR will allow them to start services like LHR-MEL/LHR-SYD nonstop etc. Don't think this order will replace anything.

With QF repeatedly reaching the conclusion that they would not be able to economically operate the SYD-LHR route nonstop with the LR, I really don't see BA coming to any other conclusion... in other words, I doubt we'll be seeing LRs in BA livery - I don't think they have any route that needs it.

-300ERs, now that's another thing... those wouldn't surprise me at all...



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineNijltje From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 14694 times:

And BA is dropping the MEL/SYD route ....

User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 14639 times:

Ummm, BA dropped the MEL route already, but no plans of dropping the SYD. Where have you got your information from.

As stated in loads of threads about this. BA are not getting any new aircraft until A. T5 is operational and B. The pension is sorted out. So that's 2008 at the earliest


User currently offlineORDRyan28 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 988 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 14594 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 1):
I suppose BA will order the B 747-8 to replace their B 747-400s when it comes to replacement.

I think that's what BA plans on doing. i doubt you will ever see an A380 in BA colors.

-Ryan



Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 14555 times:

Quoting Trekster (Reply 4):
BA are not getting any new aircraft until A. T5 is operational and B. The pension is sorted out. So that's 2008 at the earliest

That's less than 18 months ahead, and I think the waiting list for any aircraft off the A or B production lines would be 3-4 years, so BA better reserve their places on the production lines soon.

Quoting Trekster (Reply 4):
BA dropped the MEL route already, but no plans of dropping the SYD.

LHR-MEL was dropped in March this year and is now operated for BA by QF under the JSA.

Despite BA stating that they have no plans to drop SYD, you must remember that Rod Eddington did say in a speech given at an airline executives' conference in the Far East a few years ago that BA would pull out of Australia when/if the JSA ended. The economics of the route must make it a poor yield - the aircraft sit on the ground at SYD for 12 hours before returning, otherwise it will arrive at LHR when it is closed. Therefore any aircraft flying the route can only do one rotation in 4 days, at fares that are not much higher than from LHR to the West Coast of USA, plus they need two separate crews for both the outward and the return legs. In the same period, aircraft can do four rotations to LAX or SFO. It does not take an accounting genius to work out which routes produce the better yields/profits. Eddington obviously felt some desire to keep BA flying to his homeland but Willy Wonka obviously does not plus he is far more mercenary than his predecessor.



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 14410 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 1):
The B 747-400s will remain in service with BA for another 10 years according to Rod Eddington and Walsh.

Where is that from please? The oldest 747-400 at BA (G-BNLA) is already 17 years old... Surely BA will not keep it till it's 27! (that's my age, and I know how old it feels!!! :P)


User currently offlineCarduelis From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2001, 1585 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 14319 times:

At the recent British Airways Annual General Meeting in London, both Chairman Martin Broughton and CEO Willie Walsh said definitively that no decisions on future aircraft will be made until the end of next year.


Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
User currently offlineSpencer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1635 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 14196 times:

The weird thing about LHR T5 is that it's BAW's terminal, yet there are 4(?) stands that will accommodate the 380...
Spencer.



EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
User currently offlineHUYguy From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 14158 times:

I thought QF was operating into these stands that accommodate the A380 at T5?
I'd also like to see BA get some 777-300's. Anyone think this is a possibility?


User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 14111 times:

Quoting HUYguy (Reply 10):
I'd also like to see BA get some 777-300's. Anyone think this is a possibility?

I bet £500 that BA will buy the 777-300!

I can see BA's fleet in 5-10 years time will be made up of:

- 747-400s fleet (All of the BNL* gone, CIV* remains)
- 777-200ER (same number as in today)
- 767-300ER (same number as in today, but 787s on order)
- 777-300ER x 10 (with many more on order)
- 777-200LR x 4 (maybe for a SYD direct run)
- 380-800 or -900 on order (10 or so)

That's my prediction, but for me, there is no doubt we will see the B773 in BA's colours soon! (check the profile, it's on there already! :P)

Safe flying all,
Alan.


User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13975 times:

I would like to see the 77W replace some of the lower 744's models, whereas the 748's replace the newer 744's.

I am not anti-airbus, I'm just desperate for a 747-8 PAX order  Sad

Is BA looking at the newer A350WXB, it sure would look sweet in BA colours?

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3741 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 13789 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

British Airways still has a few B757's left (I recently saw one descending into Nice on my recent trip to Southern France), some of them went to DHL. Those are leaving fairly soon. Don't forget that British Airways was the first airline to fly the 757 aircraft with Eastern back in 1983.

The 767-300's are to stay for a while. They could be replaced with 787's next decade.

There are no more 737's flying with BA within Europe, the few remaining 737's are flying with Comair in South Africa.

Yes I also think that a mix of B747-8's and B777LR's could replace in the long run the 747-400 fleet, which is the largest to this day among all major airlines of the world.

Within the UK and Europe, BA mainline will be flying only A319/320/321 aircraft. The oldest 10 A320's that were orgininally ordered by British Caledonian are leaving the fleet also. I doubt BA will order Airbus widebodies. The reason BA chose the A32X over the NG737 was delivery schedules and better deals from Airbus for narrowbodies. And I imagine that in the long run, Comain in South Africa will replace the 737-300/400's with A32X aircraft.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineA340600MAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 13764 times:

On the short haul front. I had a conversation with a BA captain yesterday based at LGW. I asked if their would be any change with their based B737 and whether they would be changing to Airbus.

He replied that BA had no plans at the moment of disposing of their older B737's and no plans to order more airbus aircraft.



Fav aircraft has to be A340-600
User currently offlineTu114 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 13721 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 13):
Those are leaving fairly soon.

Nope - there are no plans to retire the remaining 13 757s at the moment.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 13):
There are no more 737's flying with BA within Europe, the few remaining 737's are flying with Comair in South Africa.

I hope someone's told BA at LGW! Did 30 or so 737s evaporate overnight?


User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 13721 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 13):
There are no more 737's flying with BA within Europe, the few remaining 737's are flying with Comair in South Africa.

I think you are wrong, for example today's MAD flights from LGW:


  • BA2464 - 733
  • BA2466 - 734
  • BA2470 - 733


BA still has 19 737-400's, 5 737-300's and 9 737-500's!

Quoting A340600MAN (Reply 14):
He replied that BA had no plans at the moment of disposing of their older B737's and no plans to order more airbus aircraft.

I've also heard the same, LGW isn't realy profitable for BA, so don't expect a rush for new a/c at LGW  Sad

Quoting American 767 (Reply 13):
Yes I also think that a mix of B747-8's and B777LR's could replace in the long run the 747-400 fleet, which is the largest to this day among all major airlines of the world.

I agree with the 748's, but how would BA use the 772LR? Why would it need the 772LR?

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4745 posts, RR: 45
Reply 17, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 13713 times:

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 7):
Where is that from please? The oldest 747-400 at BA (G-BNLA) is already 17 years old... Surely BA will not keep it till it's 27! (that's my age, and I know how old it feels!!! :P)

Then why did BA operate some of their 741s for almost 30 years?



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 70
Reply 18, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 13713 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 13):
There are no more 737's flying with BA within Europe,

Oh but there are many!

Quoting American 767 (Reply 13):
British Airways still has a few B757's left (I recently saw one descending into Nice on my recent trip to Southern France), some of them went to DHL. Those are leaving fairly soon.

Not soon.



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3741 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13637 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Yes I think you're right. There are still 737's based in LGW, I was thinking of LHR only. There are no more B737's based in LHR. Sorry folks, my mistake.

Quoting B742 (Reply 16):
but how would BA use the 772LR? Why would it need the 772LR?

Very long haul routes that do not require hi capacity.
For example LHR to some destinations in Australia or South America, or other destinations in Asia where market doesn't justify a need for high capacity aircraft on the routes. I imagine there are long haul routes at BA currently flown with the B747-400 where the yields/load factor are not that high.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 20, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13593 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 1):
The B 747-400s will remain in service with BA for another 10 years according to Rod Eddington and Walsh.

What was the price of oil when they said that? As the price of fuel rises, so does the financial pressure to replace older aircraft with more efficient models.

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 7):
The oldest 747-400 at BA (G-BNLA) is already 17 years old... Surely BA will not keep it till it's 27!

My recollection is that EU rules don't allow them to operate any airframe more than 25 years old.


User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13593 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 19):

Very long haul routes that do not require hi capacity.
For example LHR to some destinations in Australia or South America, or other destinations in Asia where market doesn't justify a need for high capacity aircraft on the routes. I imagine there are long haul routes at BA currently flown with the B747-400 where the yields/load factor are not that high.

Then why not just fly the 772ER?

The world (excluding Australasia) can be reached by the 772ER, and a fully loaded 772LR would have problems reaching SYD from LHR both ways?

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13550 times:

Quoting Spencer (Reply 9):
The weird thing about LHR T5 is that it's BAW's terminal, yet there are 4(?) stands that will accommodate the 380...

Nothing weird about it. If you build a terminal to cater for the future, it is logical that the terminal should be able to accommodate aircraft planned for the future. It is better to have some stands able to accommodate the A380 than no stands at all, after all there is always the possibility that BA just might order the A380 in the future and also there might be some moving around of airlines at LHR in the future that ends up with other oneworld airlines using T5. You might even see a BA takeover of VS at a future date, which would bring the A380s into the BA fleet (assuming that VS does not cancel the order)!

Quoting A340600MAN (Reply 14):
He replied that BA had no plans at the moment of disposing of their older B737's and no plans to order more airbus aircraft

The rumour that I heard is that BA will not order any new aircraft until EuroGatwick starts showing some profits, so the 737s at LGW will soldier on for a few more years. They still have some year's usage left.



MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineJoeyby From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13511 times:

Just hoping BA will order those 747-8s!!!

User currently offlineSpencer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1635 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13398 times:

Quoting BCAL (Reply 22):
Nothing weird about it. If you build a terminal to cater for the future, it is logical that the terminal should be able to accommodate aircraft planned for the future. It is better to have some stands able to accommodate the A380 than no stands at all, after all there is always the possibility that BA just might order the A380 in the future and also there might be some moving around of airlines at LHR in the future that ends up with other oneworld airlines using T5. You might even see a BA takeover of VS at a future date, which would bring the A380s into the BA fleet (assuming that VS does not cancel the order)!

No, you're quite right, I was just saying it's weird T5 has the 380 stands, meaning it could be a sign they (BAW) will possibly consider the Whale at a later date?? Who knows?
Spencer.



EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
25 Geo772 : The 10 777s that are "on order" are likely to be 300ERs. It is also likely that they will be for fleet expansion rather than replacement. As for repla
26 HB-IWC : Seeing as how the B763ERs are in the process of receiving a retrofit, I would think that they are about to stay for another while.
27 United Airline : They can. CX plans to keep its B 747-400s till they reach the age of 25.
28 Baron52ta : BA is your classic, they have no intentions of getting the A380 even though they should be supporting Britains waining industries and if Blair has his
29 Carduelis : On what fact do you base your comments?
30 LHR777 : Remember that T5 at LHR is owned and operated by BAA, not British Airways. BA is simply a BAA customer. BAA is the landlord, BA is the tenant. BAA wa
31 MCOflyer : My guess is the following: The 767's and 757's will stay as they fill a niche area for certain routes. The 747's will no doubt be staying till a certa
32 Lhrmaccoll : Yup Ii've flown on 4 this week I hate them euurghhh
33 Scotron11 : That's less than 18 months ahead, and I think the waiting list for any aircraft off the A or B production lines would be 3-4 years, so BA better rese
34 Post contains links and images Azza40 : Modified Airliner Photos:Design © Joe PerezTemplate © Nathan Zalcman - AirTeamImages Modified Airliner Photos:Design © EDINEYTemplate © FRENCH FRO
35 VV701 : And in its 2005-06 Annual Report BA said that it planned to operate its aircraft for between 15 and 25 years. As long haul aircraft complete fewer ro
36 Stitch : I would think a mixed 777-300ER and 747-8I fleet would work for BA as they replace 747-400s. For those routes with lower overall traffic, the 777-300E
37 JakeOrion : IMHO, BA's livery is one of the few liveries that look good on almost any aircraft, but if I had to choose 1 aircraft on that list, I think the -300E
38 Geo772 : Out of the fake pictures there it is also the most likely one to come true. The least would probably be the MD11 closely followed by the A340.
39 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Wow...that 747-8I colour scheme looks bad ass!
40 DavidT : I flew on one yesterday!! I hope and think that BA will go with 748s and 787s and a few 777-300ERs to replace the smaller 747 routes.
41 Ken777 : Don't feel bad - I'm 62 and feel like a poorly maintained DC-3.
42 BA286 : Either the 773 or preferably the 748 . Definetly not the whale or the a340. BA286
43 Scotron11 : Which one would you choose The 380 and T7 looks pretty cool in BA colors!
44 ANstar : LGW is turning a profit now, just not enough to allow a fleet renewal. I think with the service & staff cutbacks on short haul and flights under 90mi
45 GDB : Anyone who actually works at BA, knows the notion that BA will not have A380, nor definately not any other current type, is nonsense. Nothing ruled in
46 Post contains images Jacobin777 : according to Walsh, it will basically be the 777's..which I think will be the -300ER (just a guess) "Walsh disagrees. "The average age is 10.5 years.
47 Post contains links and images Keesje : BA is pretty conservative. Lets face it, it is highly unlikely BA will order the 747Adv/-8i as a launch customer. This aircraft has been pushed by Boe
48 Scotron11 : AF/KLM, LH, SQ, QF, CX, EK, VS.......the list goes on and on. All have been ordering aircraft. Apart from CX, all have ordered the A380. And who is th
49 Post contains images Stitch : Well the 748I is a more efficient and effective plane then the 747-X was, so that might improve it's standing with BA a bit. If BA is already struggl
50 Post contains images Msl747 : I agree that I would like to see a BA 748 or a 773, but the 380 does look good in the BA c/s.... BTW i'm flying on BA286 tomarrow..lol
51 Post contains images Jacobin777 : the basic 747 has been flying in BA colours for decades......the previous versions of the 747's didn't have the technological advances the Lets see..
52 Ncelhr : Thank goodness! The last 2 flights I took on 767ERs used as intra-european had "leather" seats whose surface was crackling due to wear. I felt like b
53 Aerokiwi : I think what's weirder is that there aren't MORE A380 capable stands. Seems to be a just-in-case move by LHR for BA.
54 Mhodgson : I think what was originally meant is that the A380 does have customers - so if BA were to order now, they wouldn't be launch customer, and would get
55 Stitch : One can imagine additional retrofitting of the existing terminals to handle the A380 since LHR is consistently presented as one of (if not) the most
56 Kaitak744 : Being only 4 stands there, this only allows for ~40 daily A380 departures. This is obviously not enough for BA to replace all their 747s with. To be
57 Zvezda : LHR only operates scheduled flights about 17 hours per day. I don't see how they could handle more than 8 WhaleJet flights per day per gate at LHR. I
58 2wingtips : Spinning it again aren't we Keesje. The -8I is a new derivative that has hardly been pushed by Boeing for years. You can't put the Adv in the same br
59 SunriseValley : If BA needed more lift in the 777-200ER category it would make perfect sense to buy some -200LR's because of their superior economics for hauls over
60 Thering : Think they can get a mix of 777-300ER and 747-8 to replace the 747-400... I see space for a 787 order also, that would replace the 767s and the older
61 Baron95 : Did you forget that Boeing is putting the 777-200LR on a diet to solve that very problem. They are shooting for 14000 lbs lighter IIRC.
62 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ok..I see your point..but the A380 has yet to be a "proven" plane.....BA will know at least what the basics of the 747-8I will be...... also, Boeing
63 Keesje : The stretched 747X was withdrawn in March 2001, the minimum-change 747-400XQLR some time later, the 747-400ER passenger sold a few, the 747-800X bare
64 Jacobin777 : Proof?
65 NYC777 : What are you talking about???!!! EIS of the 748F is 2009 and EIS of the 748I is 2010. The only time the EIS has changed is when Keesje decided in his
66 AirbusA6 : That's surprising, as many other British companies have reduced their deficits over the last couple of years, the deficit of £2.29bn is frightening!
67 Zvezda : Before Boeing officially launched the SuperJumbo, they were talking about a late 2008 EIS. Of course, before Airbus launched the WhaleJet, they were
68 2wingtips : We are talking 748I here. Nothing else. The GEnx 748F has dominated the VLA Freighter segment since it was launched in 2005(not 2003). The 748I stret
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
BA Fleet Renewal At LGW posted Wed May 17 2006 20:48:33 by Sam1987
BA Fleet Renewal Not Imminent - Willie Walsh posted Fri Nov 25 2005 17:08:49 by VV701
Cubana Fleet Renewal Update! posted Tue Oct 25 2005 17:33:22 by Georgiabill
Air Canada Fleet Renewal Update posted Thu Apr 14 2005 10:44:42 by NorCalSF
PIA Fleet Renewal Update posted Sat Feb 22 2003 23:59:18 by GF-A330
Thoughts On BA Longhaul Fleet Renewal posted Mon Jan 16 2006 20:15:58 by FlyCaledonian
Lufthansa Regional Fleet Renewal ::: Any News posted Wed Nov 8 2006 11:27:03 by Dougbr2006
Lufthansa Fleet Planning Update posted Thu Oct 19 2006 15:38:58 by PanAm_DC10
AC Jazz Fleet Renewal posted Mon Sep 11 2006 05:35:08 by ACJAZZAME
PR To Focus On Fleet Renewal, Emerging Markets posted Thu Aug 31 2006 05:09:15 by N751PR