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New Long Haul Airlines To Australia?  
User currently offlineSonicAirlines From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 11 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10388 times:

Hi Team,
There have been many rumours over the past year or two of carriers intending to service Australia in some capacity in the future.
Does anyone have an info of those that intend to ? I've heard a few names floating around like Lufthansa, Jet Airways, Etihad, Lion Air, Qatar.
We have lost EVA recently and will soon lose Austrian, would love to see some new airlines coming to AUS one day soon.


Bring Back The Tri-Jets !
61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJupiter2 From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10288 times:

"We" haven't totally lost BR yet, they still serve Brisbane.

As for the airlines you mention, Qatar were recently knocked back by the government, Etihad are a possibility, atlthough if QR got knocked back I can't see how EY would succeed in getting flights.

Lion Air would only hasten their own demise, there is very little money to be made hauling tourists to Bali from Australia. Jet Airways would be nice, but the QF direct flights to Mumbai don't appear to be going gang busters and there are a ton of connections you can do via SIN and KUL to India.

Lufthansa I personally reckon are a strong candidate. Either with 380's or with Condor doing a two class service for them with 767's and later with whatever they order in the mid size twin market. There are still a lot of Europeans flying to Australia and the seat economics of the 380 and indeed the 748 may make it viable to send their own metal once again. While they offer a crap load of flights via SQ/TG/OS the withdrawal of OS and the continued growth in the market, albeit at relatively low yields, will hopefully see them return to Australia, sooner rather than later.

Also while we have lost a lot of Eurpoean carriers in recent times, we have gained a lot of Asian, South American and Middle East airlines.

RL


User currently offlineAmerican777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10263 times:

I know AA has a strong operation in Australia with code-sharing from QF, but I would love for AA to start non-stop with their 777-200ER's from DFW to SYD.
I have made 2 trips before to SYD and I had to stop in LAX the first time and SFO the second time. And I am going to Australia again in November and I bet if AA started non-stop flights between both cities it would be very neat. So I hope AA can start that route soon as they are expanding their international network.

JOE.  Sad


User currently offlineTravel From Australia, joined May 2001, 355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10260 times:

Can anyone explain why Qatar got knocked back?

User currently offlineJupiter2 From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10194 times:

QR got knocked back because their business case basically didn't stand up. The benefits they were claiming to the Australian economy, ie: more bums on seats to Australia to spend their money, was seen as simply cashing in on the EK plan and that they would only take passengers away from the incumbent airlines and not generate significant "new" traffic.

It really is hard to argue against the government decision, unless of course you are looking for cheap airfares to Europe via the Middle East as opposed to Asia. There are stacks of carriers offering near identical services from Australia to Europe and QR were seen to just be jumping on the band wagon to poach other airlines passengers and to be seen to be competing with EK.

Personally I would like to see them here, only because I am selfish and want more airlines here to photograph.

RL


User currently offlineAlaskaqantas From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 905 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10061 times:

hia-

Quoting American777 (Reply 2):
I bet if AA started non-stop flights between both cities it would be very neat. So I hope AA can start that route soon as they are expanding their international network.

One thing is that AA does codeshare, as you said. So if they stoped codesharing and started to go down there, they would be in competion with QF, wich wouldn't be good for their partnership. So I'd say that AA won't be going down there anytime soon.

Australia has a good amount of airlines going in and out, and you don't want too many airlines coming in or else non of them will be maknig any money. The Austrailian government I guess knows what its doing... although it would be cool to get QATAR!!  Smile
Anyways, I wonder who will be the lucky airline/s to get in?
~Cheers-
~~Kyle H.



to some people the sky is the limit, to aviation enthusiasts, its home!
User currently offlineAmerican777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10002 times:

Quoting Alaskaqantas (Reply 5):
So if they stopped codesharing and started to go down there, they would be in competition with QF, which wouldn't be good for their partnership.

I been quite upset with QF because they were looking for a long range airliner that could fly SYD-LHR non-stop and that plane is available and they haven't ordered it yet! Yes, the 777-200LR was also offered to QF by reducing its weight by 7 tons! That is quite a difference and I bet QF can start doing the SYD-LHR route with no problems at all non-stop. Also QF does not fly to DFW, so how is it going to compete with AA on non-stop flights from DFW to SYD? AA can fly that route with their 777-200ER's they own right now.

JOE.  Sad


User currently offlinePlanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9861 times:

Quoting Jupiter2 (Reply 1):
we have gained a lot of Asian, South American and Middle East airlines.

You only have 2 South American and 2 Middle Eastern Airlines.

That being said, I do see Ana, Lufthansa and Sri Lankan coming next year or the year after to Australia.


User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9826 times:

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 7):
That being said, I do see Ana, Lufthansa and Sri Lankan coming next year or the year after to Australia.

Didn't ANA once serve SYD? Will they restart? I remember a thread on this recently..............



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9826 times:

Quoting Jupiter2 (Reply 1):
Lufthansa I personally reckon are a strong candidate

This is wishful thinking. Forget LH. In our days it is simply much more economical for European airlines to transfer their passenger to alliance partners in SIN, BKK or KUL. In case of LH to SQ or TG. When they use their own metal to Australia they need at least two more airframes to fly daily in comparison to when they only fly to SIN, BKK etc. LH does not have these spare aircrafts.


User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 853 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9812 times:

Shanghai Airlines are looking at Brisbane, although don't expect that to happen any time soon.

User currently offlineAlaskaqantas From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 905 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9757 times:

Quoting American777 (Reply 6):
so how is it going to compete with AA on non-stop flights from DFW to SYD?

they code share the flights from LAX-SYD and then people can fly with AA to Dallas, i'm just saying that I don't know if there would be much of a profit for AA to go from Dallas-SYD when some one could fly over to LAX and go down on QF, which is a nicer airline. I'm not trying to be mean to AA, but in all reality airlines in America just don't add up to asian/European and australian/New Zealand airlines.

Nothing against you or AA, its just that with codesharing and the fact that Dallas might not have a big population of people wanting to go to Australia and visa vera, it just seems more profitable to send people on AA over to LAX then on QF down to SYD. oh well I guess time will show!

Quoting ZRH (Reply 9):

This is wishful thinking. Forget LH. In our days it is simply much more economical for European airlines to transfer their passenger to alliance partners in SIN, BKK or KUL. In case of LH to SQ or TG. When they use their own metal to Australia they need at least two more airframes to fly daily in comparison to when they only fly to SIN, BKK etc.

this is true... and can be used in the same instence of AA down to auzy.
~Cheers-
~~Kyle H.



to some people the sky is the limit, to aviation enthusiasts, its home!
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9611 times:

Quoting American777 (Reply 6):
I been quite upset with QF because they were looking for a long range airliner that could fly SYD-LHR non-stop and that plane is available and they haven't ordered it yet!

The currently offered B777LR WILL NOT do SYD-LHR non stop, economically.

Quoting American777 (Reply 6):
, the 777-200LR was also offered to QF by reducing its weight by 7 tons! That is quite a difference and I bet QF can start doing the SYD-LHR route with no problems at all non-stop.

This has NOT happened yet! Both QF & Boeing are working on it, but Boeing, to the best of public knowledge, has NOT OFFERED to produce the lighter version. Even with the lighter version it is NOT clear that SYD-LHR is doable to QF requirements.

Quoting American777 (Reply 6):
Also QF does not fly to DFW, so how is it going to compete with AA on non-stop flights from DFW to SYD? AA can fly that route with their 777-200ER's they own right now.

AA B777-200ERs CANNOT do DFW-SYD with any sort of reasonabl payload. As well AA do not have enough 772s to do it and if they did they could probabley make MORE money using them some where else!

QF are planning SYD-DFW-SYD as soon as there is a suitable aircraft. Which maybe the 772LR, the 787 or even, god help you, the A380.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9600 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 12):
The currently offered B777LR WILL NOT do SYD-LHR non stop, economically.

This is correct. She could fly this route non-stop but not with an economical reasonable payload. When and if an airline in the near future will fly this route non-stop they probably have to go for an only business seating (and perhaps first). Imagine the horror to fly such a long time in the usual sardine cans of our days. I never ever would do this.


User currently offlineEta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2083 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 8184 times:

AA closed their Australian reservations center in North Sydney last month and they make too much money codesharing with QF.

LH- no way will return- their own SYD based staff admit it.

QR never had a chance- even with a 3x MEL service. EY however might be a different case- Canberra might like an EK-EY fight!


User currently offlineB787 From Australia, joined May 2005, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7972 times:

I guess another aspect to this question is what existing airlines are expanding or reducing their capacity, frequency and/or ports served here.

I know BA have stopped flying to MEL (which was a suprise to me as the flights to/from Mel that I was on were always full)

I think CX have just cut back some capacity. Am I right?

AC are growing with their intended flights from YYZ via LAX

JQ are adding new cities served from Australia

NZ have added ADL recently

DJ are looking at fying to the States.

What else?


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3224 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7864 times:

Air India (AI) I'd have thought would be a strong contender for a return to SYD.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineJupiter2 From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7740 times:

Planemanofnz, yes we only have 2 Middle Eastern and 2 South American carriers, but I can remember when there were none !! There were no Korean carriers, no Chinese carriers, only FJ from the Pacific Island nations, the only freighters we saw were Flying Tigers or Pan Am and they were usually charters.

So while we have lost a lot of airlines over the years we have gained quite a few too, and they operate many, many more flights than when I started getting interested !!

B787,
CX have not cut any capacity recently and are not likely to.

MotorHussy,
Ahhh, the continuing saga of Air India, they should have returned 2 years ago according to them !!!

I want code shares banned !!!!

RL


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2987 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7635 times:

As an outsider and observer, I would say one of the most likely candidates would be a SkyTeam member. Afterall, without going via ICN or all points NWA in Asia, how else can a SkyTeam member get to Australasia from the USA without connections and a circuitous route?

Certainly at SYD, OneWorld and Star seem well represented.

My 2c worth.

Shamu



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3333 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7447 times:

Quoting SonicAirlines (Thread starter):
There have been many rumours over the past year or two of carriers intending to service Australia in some capacity in the future.
Does anyone have an info of those that intend to ? I've heard a few names floating around like Lufthansa, Jet Airways, Etihad, Lion Air, Qatar.

QR, EY, UL are all contenders.

Quoting Travel (Reply 3):
Can anyone explain why Qatar got knocked back?



Quoting Jupiter2 (Reply 4):
QR got knocked back because their business case basically didn't stand up. The benefits they were claiming to the Australian economy, ie: more bums on seats to Australia to spend their money, was seen as simply cashing in on the EK plan and that they would only take passengers away from the incumbent airlines and not generate significant "new" traffic.



Quoting B787 (Reply 15):
I think CX have just cut back some capacity. Am I right?

This is absolute crap. Given that the Australian outbound market is relatively small given the small population, Australia has more to gain by making fares to Australia more competitive. This doesn't hurt anyone. Australia's tourism is hurt by the distance to anywhere, and the cost of airfares. By allowing QR to enter Australia, Australia would have gained a net increase in tourists.
"New traffic" for QR would be to increase seat capacity to major markets like the UK, and other European ports, most of which QF DOES NOT serve in its own right.

Unless you actually work in Canberra B787, your comments are very misguided by the endless Bull sh*t that comes out of Canberra and QF!


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7359 times:

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 18):
As an outsider and observer, I would say one of the most likely candidates would be a SkyTeam member.

Most likely? NO! Most needed? YES!

The problem is who? Unless the Virgin Group join Skyteam, which seems unlikely, there is certainly no airline from this part of the world.

Both North American ST members are in Chapter 11. NW tried it before and could not make it work and probabley still cant. Delta have NO presence in the market, most Ozzies & Kiwi would think Delta referred to a bus! ATL is poorly positioned as a hub to serve the South Pacific and for both airlines, even if we assume a return to robust finincial health, they can probable make more money deploying their aircraft elsewhere.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineFuffla From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7177 times:

What would the possibilty be of Air France or KLM serving an Australian east coast city. They code-share currently with Air France to Singapore with QF and KLM to Kuala Lumpur with MH. It would be nice to see Skyteam presence in Australia increase with one of these carriers!

User currently offlineKmsyd777 From Australia, joined Jul 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7096 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 16):
Air India (AI) I'd have thought would be a strong contender for a return to SYD

AI are definitely considering returning to SYD but only when they have enough birds ... this should happen sometime next year I reckon... on the issue of 9W comign down under ... I doubt it... 9W and QF have recently applied to IASC for a code-share agreement connecting in SIN - which should come online once 9W launches its direct DEL-SIN flights... this will give QF and 9W a big footprint in either countries... connecting 3 Indian metro cities (BOM, DEL, MAA) with SYD, MEL, Brisbane, ADL and PER...
none of the other indian carriers have the capability to fly long distance at the moment...
Besides these, I remember reading somewhere UL were considering making a comeback to SYD as well... once they get new A340s or A330s on lease (i think)...


User currently offlineHKGKaiTak From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 6836 times:

Quoting American777 (Reply 2):
I know AA has a strong operation in Australia with code-sharing from QF, but I would love for AA to start non-stop with their 777-200ER's from DFW to SYD.

It's unfortunate 772ERs won't make it, nor would AA fly to Oz with their code-share arrangements with QF, but I would love to see those gorgeous AA 777s here!

Quoting Fuffla (Reply 21):
What would the possibilty be of Air France or KLM serving an Australian east coast city

I doubt any European airline would ever start considering serving any port in Oz ever again. Just doesn't make any economic sense when you're competing with Asian carriers. (Not good for us enthusiasts though, would love to see AF or KL birds here too!)

(Btw, there's a very interesting article in today's Sydney Morning Herald about this whole QF business, some good quotes from various politicians too)



4 Engines 4 LongHaul
User currently offlineIndustrybuff From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2003, 347 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 6778 times:

checkout the Sydney morning herald today or www.smh.com.au for an interesting article on this topic !

25 Post contains links KEno : http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.../26/business/14949619&sec=business With MH recent suspension of Kuching-Perth, Air Asia made a statement that t
26 Airbear : Quoting AlaskaQantas (Reply 5) "The Australian Government knows what its doing I guess..." You are still young, trusting and perhaps idealistic, my fr
27 Jupiter2 : Airbear, Perhaps a little strong, but they do seem to be able to "steer" policy if not all the way, then at least a considerable way in the direction
28 Airbear : Jupiter2 ... yeah, true enough I guess. But even the ANZ shareholding story demonstrates that "The Australian Government" - in this case the ACCC (in
29 B787 : 6thfreedom what planet are you on? Why don't actualy look at who posts responses before you go about abusing people. All I did was ask if CX have cut
30 Planemanofnz : I forgot about Air India. I remember them saying that they wanted to fly to SYD a couple of years ago. Apparantley the route was going to be a 310 fly
31 Fuffla : With the only european carriers flying to Australia being BA (maybe soon to be gone) and VS, and then both of those flying to Sydney, i think it is vi
32 TWAtwaTWA : Actually Australia and New Zealand are big tourist destination for upper class indians, which are growing by the minute. Several recent indian movies
33 HKGKaiTak : Yes, there are plenty of Aussies of Indian heritage living in Oz, and a lot of Indian tourists now, but then India is such a big place how is one AI
34 Airbear : Fuffla... YOU know QF should expand in Europe. I know QF should expand in Europe. SQ's, TG's, MH's and EK's AUSSIE PAX know that QF should expand in E
35 Gemuser : How do you know QF SHOULD expand in Europe? [except Paris, which QF want but the French government wont let them]. The mere fact that SQ, TG, MH, EK
36 Airbear : Hi Gemuser... when commenting recently about Austrian's decision to exit the Australian market early next year, Geoff Dixon said it highlighted the pr
37 6thfreedom : B787. my apologies. obviously my response was not directed at you, but the post below. FYI - CX has not cut capacity. Cx added a third daily SYD serv
38 Gemuser : Hi Airbear, a lot there to comment on! Doable in SIN right now, QF have full fifth freedom right ex SIN. BUT where is QF going to get the feed from. I
39 Post contains images B787 : 6th Freedom, no problem and thankyou for the apology. Also thanks for the info on CX, I don't why I thought they had cut back service.
40 Post contains images Airbear : Hi again, Gemuser ... you have a point on the subject of feed into a SIN or DXB hub. But maybe this can be overcome by making better and different use
41 CXA330300 : My cousin told me that there was a rumour that SA may expand to SYD, now that the QF codeshare is kaput? There are three ST members from N. America (f
42 ZK-NBT : Theres nothing wrong with the codeshare, where did you hear that? They already fly to CNS and have done for years.
43 VHVXB : Is there any chance of JQ Intl. Serving Rome and Paris??
44 Misbeehavin : Maybe SkyTeam could jointly try and make a go at it from HNL or something. All US SkyTeam members fly to HNL, so there would be good feed from ATL, C
45 Spkyflyer : I don't think that Athens can be ruled out at this point (served by JQ).
46 Gemuser : I think this is what HA is basically planning. The problem with this plan for SkyTeam is the scheduling co-ordination necessary to make it work. It h
47 Post contains images Misbeehavin : True. But I'm sure there will be a few points whores - like yours truly - who will take the connection through HNL.
48 EK413 : Planemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 840 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted Fri Aug 4 2006 11:28:28 UTC+2 and read 4301 times: Quoting Jupiter2 (
49 VHVXB : I think OS are disposing of their A340's and there is chance it might be heading towards UL
50 Kesflyer : JQ is definitely going to expand into Europe sometime in the near future. Possibly later in 2007 or more likely from 2008 onwards. It would seem obvio
51 VHVXB : DFW is high possibility considering it is a Oneworld Hub. ORD might be another possible destination. Does anyone know If YVR will be ever served dire
52 Gemuser : I dont think it obvious! Most of those ports had service firstly for refueling purpose, either distance or payload reasons, secondly for political re
53 Post contains images FXramper : SYD doesn't do any flying into DFW last I saw, so whoever starts the route, QF or AA first, it could be a success. DFW, potentially, could filter hug
54 Kesflyer : I think that airlines like EK have taken over where QF left off as far as Europe is concerned. These were not refuelling stops like BAH or DXB. Refuel
55 VHVXB : Yeah and majority of them will be tourist not ex migrants like you mentioned before Yeah from which city. EK serves PER, SYD and MEL 2x daily and BNE
56 DJ748 : UL fly into Oz by codesharing with EK. Remembering UL is part-owned by EK. LH also codeshares, this time with SQ. Doesn't LH fly into oz as Lufthansa
57 ZK-NBT : This stopped in March 2005 and is now operated by an Atlas 744F on behalf of NZ.
58 6thfreedom : I can see JQ operating MEL-BKK-ATH-FCO vv. I wouldn't be surprissed if OA changed its codeshare to JQ, and give GF the flick. AZ may also add its cod
59 6thfreedom : I can see JQ operating MEL-BKK-ATH-FCO vv. I wouldn't be surprissed if OA changed its codeshare to JQ, and give GF the flick. AZ may also add its cod
60 Post contains images EIRules : I personally see AF/KL as being the most likely of the European carriers though even that is only a slight possibility. Sure while we're on the round
61 Gemuser : Yes, primarily refueling stops! Most of course generated some traffic. BEG served by QF for a short time, was it served by QF & JU at the same time?
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