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Where Will NWA Use The 787?  
User currently offlineDTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1565 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7670 times:

While reading so many threads that have Northwest going under or being bought out and picked apart by other airlines, I want to look on the positive side for a bit.

Northwest is scheduled to be the first North American carrier to put the 787 into service in August 2008. What I am wondering is this. Where will NWA fly the 787?

The DC10 will be out of service in early January 2007 so it will not be directly replacing them. Will they be replacing some of the 330's on the Trans-Atlantic or Pacific routes? Maybe replacing the 757-300's that they are currently using from the west coast to HNL? Does anyone think we'll see the return of widebody domestic service at NW like we had with the DC10 prior to the 757-300 arriving?

My fingers are crossed that Northwest gets through their current financial difficulties and we'll be seeing these great new birds landing at DTW just 2 years from now.


721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,388,146,CR2,7,ERJ,
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyGuyClt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7666 times:

My Guess.

JFK-NRT
DTW ICN
DTW HKG
DTW PVG
DTW PEK
SEA SYD
DTW DEL
DTW BOM
DTW CAN

Safe Flying  Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7646 times:

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 1):
My Guess.

JFK-NRT
DTW ICN
DTW HKG
DTW PVG
DTW PEK
SEA SYD
DTW DEL
DTW BOM
DTW CAN

A very good list. I think they are all a good possibility except for SEA-SYD.


User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3768 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7619 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 2):
A very good list. I think they are all a good possibility except for SEA-SYD.

I agree!  Smile

Will the 787's slot alongside the A330's and not replace them?

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7545 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7497 times:

I think MSP-SYD would be a better option. It's 7825 nautical miles, the 787's range is supposed to be 8,500nm.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7461 times:

MEM-NRT is a possibility.


"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4982 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7437 times:

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 4):
think MSP-SYD would be a better option. It's 7825 nautical miles, the 787's range is supposed to be 8,500nm.

Assuming that the in-service OEW is the same as the generic OEW it would be at the max end of its passenger's only loading assuming -40k winds westbound.
Not a likely scenario, I would think.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7428 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 5):
MEM-NRT is a possibility.

I guarantee that has never been looked at or will it ever be looked at. MEM neither has the feed or the O&D to support a nob-stop to Asia.


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7419 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 7):
I guarantee that has never been looked at or will it ever be looked at. MEM neither has the feed or the O&D to support a nob-stop to Asia.

People said the same thing about MEM-AMS before it was launched.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7408 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 8):
People said the same thing about MEM-AMS before it was launched.

I don't remember anyone at NWA ever saying that, but I guarantee they would say it about MEM-NRT.


User currently offlineFlyGuyClt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7308 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 2):
A very good list. I think they are all a good possibility except for SEA-SYD.

Bet you $5 !

Safe Flying  Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7260 times:

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 10):
Bet you $5 !

Your'e on. Now I have to decide how to spend my $5.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16865 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7190 times:

PDX-NRT
SFO-NRT
SEA-NRT
LAX-KIX
HNL-KIX
NRT-CAN
NRT-PUS
NRT-ICN
NRT-BGK



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineEVA777SEA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7148 times:

SEA-KIX
SEA-HKG
SEA-China
LAX-KIX
DTW-China

these are just my 2 cents


User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7107 times:

I thought the 787 was a replacement to the 767, which is mainly used on trans-atlantic routes. It would be better to order the 777LR for routes like
DTW HKG
DTW ICN
DTW PEK and JFK NRT

I know the 787 has much greater range than the 767, but the 777LR would provide the needed passenger capacity for these routes.  scratchchin 



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineEVA777SEA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7060 times:

NW doesn't have any 767s...

User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3103 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7032 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
SEA-NRT

No way - the A332 assigned to this route is too small already.

I consider the following to be possibilities:

DTW-HKG
DTW-KIX
DTW-PEK
MSP-HKG
SEA-HKG
SEA-KIX
MEM-AMS
DTW-TLV


User currently offlineOrdryan28 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 988 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7021 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 3):
Will the 787's slot alongside the A330's and not replace them?

yes. i don't know why NW would want to replace their 330's



Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7014 times:

Look for NW to use the 787s to open long thing routes from DTW and MSP to Asian cities.......NW will take advantage of the range and economics of the 787 to open new routes that couldnt economically been flown in the past. We could also see a few new routes from SEA to Asian cities if everything goes well for NW.

The A330s are not going anywhere....they are NW's transatlantic airliner and will be used to fly existing and new routes from NW hubs to Europe. The A330s will also find their way to Hawaii once the DC10s are retired, on the MSP-HNL and seasonal DTW-HNL routes. The 753s are great for the WestCoast-Hawaii services; low operating costs and the right amount of seats for these flights.

The big question is what is NW going to do with its SEA-NRT/PDX-NRT/SFO-NRT routes.......will they remain with A330s, or will NW eventually get 744s back onto these flights once they (and their banks and leasing companies) determine exactly how many 744s will remain with NW. NW had has various 74s in and out of storage in the past year.....the A332s seem small for the NRT routes.....or is that the idea, less seats mean higher yeilds?


User currently offlineDTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1565 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6948 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 18):
The A330s will also find their way to Hawaii once the DC10s are retired, on the MSP-HNL and seasonal DTW-HNL routes. The 753s are great for the WestCoast-Hawaii services; low operating costs and the right amount of seats for these flights.

The 330's are taking over MSP-HNL on January 8

There is no DTW-HNL seasonal service at this time

What I'd like to know is will we see some widebody domestic return? Perhaps DTW-LAX, DTW-SFO, DTW-SEA, DTW-PHX and other routes we used to have the DC10 flying until the 40's were retired from service. Would be nice to see A330 or 787 on those routes.



721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,388,146,CR2,7,ERJ,
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6935 times:

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 19):
What I'd like to know is will we see some widebody domestic return? Perhaps DTW-LAX, DTW-SFO, DTW-SEA, DTW-PHX and other routes we used to have the DC10 flying until the 40's were retired from service. Would be nice to see A330 or 787 on those routes

The 753s are ideal for the routes that you mentioned.....dont count on widebody service returning unless NW, for schedule purposes, needs to move an airplane from a hub to a west coast city on a regular basis. Frequency is in, big airplanes are out, on US domestic routes. Also, too many seats kill yeilds.....and NW is not going to "waste" one of their valuable widebody airplanes on a domestic route, the 757s can handle those missions.


User currently offlineContinental From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5517 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6694 times:

Is it all Asia? What about some new European destinations nonstop from MSP? Remember when they were looking at CDG?

User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6647 times:

Quoting Continental (Reply 21):
Is it all Asia? What about some new European destinations nonstop from MSP? Remember when they were looking at CDG?

That route, if launched, would probably be better scheduled as an A332 to save the 787 for routes that require more range than the A332.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6647 times:

Quoting Continental (Reply 21):
Is it all Asia? What about some new European destinations nonstop from MSP? Remember when they were looking at CDG?

The (in)famous MSP-CDG route.......if it ever happens and NW (and not AF) flies it, it owuld probably be with an A330.

A very general outline:

Europe: A332/A333
Hawaii: A333/B753
Asia: A332/B744/B788


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7587 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6528 times:

The 787 will primarily be for Asia flights. They will not be used across the Atlantic.

What will happen is that the 787 will be used to open up new routes to Asia, plus reallocate the 744's & A330-200's used both within Asia and across the Pacific. Once the DC-10's are retired over the next 6 months, additional 744 capacity will be used to backfill capacity in the Pacific. The 787 will be used in some cases to move some of the A330-200's off the Pacific and allow NW to use them on European flights that are too thin for the A330-300. (like the MSP-CDG flight)


25 Centrair : Many of the routes posted are great. I would not be surprised if NW tries to go head to head with PAL's recent expansion plans and launch their own No
26 Coronado : I think a MSP-HKG was close to fruition using a 744, when all plans were put on hold following 9/11 Considering the O&D demands of Target and Best Buy
27 FlyDreamliner : Yep, they let NW run flights that wouldn't be economical on the 744 - and in doing so, free up a few 744s (like the one previously on JFK-NRT) for us
28 Centrair : It was not just planned it was initiated and operated before 9/11. It operated I believe until 1999 or so. I remember a friend flying it and it being
29 AADC10 : They may have some new flight to Asia that will bypass NRT but long thin routes with a very expensive new plane is not very likely unless they expect
30 LPLAspotter : A questoin to everyone out there: If the 787 is a 767 replacement can it still be operated economically on short routes. For example BA uses their 76
31 Dutchjet : I think you are off base here......the 787 is all about long thin routes and the ability to operate them profitably. Boeing decided to develop the 78
32 LPLAspotter : Thought that flight did a tech at HNL or GUM. Correct me if I'm wrong. LPLAspotter
33 Norjet : In this discussion we all implicitly agree that NWA would be retaining its fifth-freedom network out of NRT - which makes complete sense. However, a s
34 TVNWZ : With all the Japanese companies around Nashville, Ten.,Ky, Al, I would imagine a flight would do well. Are the connections to DTW too good that MEM i
35 EVA777SEA : SEA might be able to support larger aircraft than the 787-8 on a China route. Where would the feed for PHX come from? Or is it supposed to rely on O&
36 Bobnwa : Connections via DTW would be virtually the same time wise as MEM from Nashville and Alabama and most southern cities. Plus DTW has a significant edge
37 Ejmmsu : The same can be said about MEM-AMS
38 FlyDreamliner : Larger like a 787-10? or larger like a 744...? I don't see SEA-PVG or SEA-PEK filling a 747 every day, but maybe something 787-10 sized, which may be
39 Centrair : This is said a lot but there are big diffferences. One. Economies of scale. Europeans have more disposable income than 90% of the Chinese and South E
40 CIDflyer : you are correct. I even have an old NWA inflihgt magazine circa '99 that shows the MSP-HKG route. Would be cool to see that come back!
41 Carpethead : The problem with any new routes from NRT or China is the lack of slots at the former and landing rights at the latter. If NW uses its Chinese route au
42 Centrair : Carpethead, would any new NW routes from North America using 787s eat into the NRT through service? Could that lead to a downgraded aircraft? How abou
43 DTW757 : How many think that we'll see initial 787 service in DTW first like we saw with the A330?
44 Bobnwa : You're correct, that's why we see 4-5 non-stops a day between DTW-AMS.
45 Ti717 : What about India? I know there been lot of new services started lately but there something the 787 will provide that is currently not there? Could the
46 EVA777SEA : LAX-India SFO-India SEA-India
47 MEMbase : Why does NW have a MEM-AMS flight at all? Why not just force everyone to fly through DTW?
48 MSYtristar : MEM-NRT??? Come on. Not a chance, even with the 788. Just because the city is considered a hub doesn't mean it can support a NRT flight. MEM should co
49 EVA777SEA : Its wouldn't be impossible to make a MEM-NRT flight on NW work, they would have to rely very heavily on connections. It wouldn't be an O&D flight.
50 Gunsontheroof : Given Microsoft's growing relationship with India, I think this route is a sure bet...the only question is who will jump on it first?
51 Bobnwa : The potential numbers indicate MEM-NRT would be a failure.
52 Jano : I only hope that after the introduction of 788s to TPAC and realocation of some 332s to TATL that DTW-PRG will be introduced. Both NW and OK could cod
53 FlyDreamliner : I think once the 787s are online, you will be right, we'll see the freed up A332 be used for European expansion. Those 787s are going to be huge for N
54 Centrair : Never thought about this option. NW needs to go further into Europe but the A333 might not be the best craft. A332 is better here. More ties with oth
55 Jetjack74 : These could be some routes. DTW-PVG DTW-PEK DTW-CAN DTW-BEY DTW-SVO DTW-AMM DTW-SDA DTW-SGN DTW-HKG DTW-FCO DTW-MXP MSP-KIX MSP-NGO MSP-FRA MSP-CDG S
56 EVA777SEA : Aren't the A330s fairly new?
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