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BMI Baby - Why No Expansion?  
User currently offlineGayrugbyMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1737 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5614 times:

As I see it, BMI Baby have only added one new route in a year, namely Manchester to Perpignan.

Why are they not expanding in the same way LS, GSM and ZB are?

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCwldude From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 691 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5597 times:

They're concentrating more on expanding through offering more extras, e.g. their in-flight magazine, select your seat, etc etc

I'm sure we'll see expansion coming from WW in the near future (or at least I hope so), otherqwise they'll be finding competing airlines will be getting all the passengers:

EMA - EZY
CWL - TOM at CWL; BA and EZY at BRS
MME - EZY and LS at NCL
BHX - BA, TOM
MAN - LS, BA & TOM at MAN, EZY at LPL



Thomson Airways - The UKs premier charter airline // now flown : BY -AA -AJ -AE -AT; OO -AX -AU -RA -BG; BRIG; OBYD
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2208 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5543 times:

They don't feed him with enough milk. A baby needs a lot of milk to be able to grow.


Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineA340600MAN From United Kingdom, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5543 times:

Hi All

Don't forget FlyBe out of MAN. They have greatly increased their services over the last 6 months.

Belfast City 4 increasing to 5
Exeter 2
Norwich 2
Southampton 4

I'm spend a lot of time dealing with WW flights at work in MAN and most flights operate with very good loads.

Whoever thought of NQY as a destination is a genious. Always very good loads.



Fav aircraft has to be A340-600
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5483 times:

I think bmi need to sell baby. bmi can the use the cash for some new long haul planes (and stop leasing the Arkefly B767's) and any new owners of baby may well be able to fund major fleet expansion and renewal, which bmi don't appear to have the cash too


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User currently offlineGayrugbyMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1737 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5464 times:

Such a genius, aren't they pulling it at the end of the summer?!

User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2236 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5464 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 4):

Since just after integrating Baby price structure into mainline, cant see any sell off happening any time soon. Unless a major player/ investor was to get onboard an independent Baby would struggle to finance a new fleet.
Overall Baby have dropped far more routes than theyve started.


User currently offlineAC320tech From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5464 times:

I think it is because BMI is trying to rid the 737's from the fleet, and integrate the BMI baby routes with the mainline on the A320 and A319 as the 737 is out.

User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5442 times:

Quoting BY738 (Reply 6):
Unless a major player/ investor was to get onboard an independent Baby would struggle to finance a new fleet.

A stock market floatation or venture capital could be an option



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User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19186 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5412 times:

Quoting A340600MAN (Reply 3):
Whoever thought of NQY as a destination is a genious. Always very good loads.

You should be concentrating on yields. A route might generate 1 million customers, by what if each customer paid between 1p and £1? Evidently, it would be a disaster.

[Edited 2006-08-06 17:32:54]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2999 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5349 times:

I think BMI Baby are playing it safe for the moment and will for the forseeable future... With the Low Cost market in UK becoming increasingly saturated and new routes becoming increasingly difficult to operate without facing competition from another LCC they would rather stick to the routes they know that work.

Over the years we have seen a lot of routes come and go and in the last few months we seem to have seen some stabilty in the routes they operate.

With BMI Baby operating an aging fleet of 733's and 735's, these aircrafts are becoming increasingly more expensive to run while oil prices remain at record high and this have effect on the airlines profit margin. BMI Baby has only in the last year or two started making a profit and this profit has only been marginal...

I don't think BMI has the money or wants to spend the money on a fleet renewal plan for the airline, even though it would make sense for them to standardise the fleet with the A320 family of aircraft to bring in line with the mainline fleet.

In my humble opinion I don't think BMI Baby will be around for much longer and could well be soon up for sale if the price is right for BMI. The two likely buyers I am think of could be easyJet or Thomsonfly...

easyJet - This would give them access to BHX, MAN and CWL and would give them a presence at nearly every major regional airport in the UK. While increasing capacity at EMA and only a few of easyJet's routes overlap with BMI Baby.

Also with all the A319's on order - these could replace BMI Baby's fleet, and be placed on established routes as opposed to easyJet deploying their new fleet on new and untried routes and reduce their risk.

Thomsonfly - This would make them the largest LCC in the Midlands, if they had EMA, BHX and CVT all as bases. Also giving them access to the market in the Northwest by having a base at MAN.

Also the 733's and 735's will fit in perfectly with Thomsonfly's own fleet of the same aircraft within their Low Cost arm of the airline.


User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5252 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 10):
I don't think BMI has the money or wants to spend the money on a fleet renewal plan for the airline.

This statement reflects the truth...

BMI is 1 man who owns 51% and most of his personal wealth is the value of the airline itself, and 30% Lufthansa, and 20% SAS (who are looking to sell and have financial issues of their own).

LH arent going to put in loads of cash unless Michael Bishop does, for him to do that he will need to mortgage something, and with SAS wanting to sell it doesnt look good for this either.

Add to this the fact that BMI itself is losing both money and passengers everywhere, it's only BMIBaby thats making any money.. so selling the baby won't help



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineRyanair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5205 times:

The B737s won't be going any time soon, more 300s are expected next year. Yes they are ageing aircraft, but to be honest they don't need new aircraft for their low-cost operations. Having flown on 2 of them in June, they aren’t in too bad condition inside.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 10):
I don't think BMI has the money or wants to spend the money on a fleet renewal plan for the airline, even though it would make sense for them to standardise the fleet with the A320 family of aircraft to bring in line with the mainline fleet.

That would be quite a task training a good load of B737 pilots on the Airbus; it's not going to happen. It would therefore prove easier (and faster) to introduce NG's into the baby fleet, but for the time being I really can't seeing them go to the expense. Simply isn't worth it.

Ryanair737


User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5192 times:

Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 5):
Such a genius, aren't they pulling it at the end of the summer?!

Perhaps because no-one wants to go there in winter? It is mainly a summer holiday destination at the end of the day, and while London may be able to retain traffic year round with a 737, MAN probably cannot. Hence Air Southwest operate year round with an aircraft much more suited to lower loads.



No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5132 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 10):
easyJet - This would give them access to BHX, MAN and CWL and would give them a presence at nearly every major regional airport in the UK. While increasing capacity at EMA and only a few of easyJet's routes overlap with BMI Baby

The competition authorities would have a field day, and not only about NEMA

CWL/BRS
NCL/MME
MAN/LPL

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 10):
Thomsonfly - This would make them the largest LCC in the Midlands, if they had EMA, BHX and CVT all as bases. Also giving them access to the market in the Northwest by having a base at MAN.

I could see this being quite a good fit. TOM are focusing on CWL, NEMA and MAN as part of their new high frequency scheduled flights plans from key airports. And they also have charter bases at MME and BHX. Would seem to me that TOM and bmi baby would be a very good fit



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User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5107 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 10):
easyJet - This would give them access to BHX, MAN and CWL and would give them a presence at nearly every major regional airport in the UK. While increasing capacity at EMA and only a few of easyJet's routes overlap with BMI Baby

The competition authorities would have a field day, and not only about NEMA

CWL/BRS
NCL/MME
MAN/LPL

As FR operates hubs from LTN & STN I don't think there is a problem. Ultimately any sale would depend on the balance sheet of WW and if the management of WW/BD and any buyer could agree on a price.


User currently offlineJamesontheroad From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 540 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5090 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 11):

Add to this the fact that BMI itself is losing both money and passengers everywhere, it's only BMIBaby thats making any money.. so selling the baby won't help

It would certainly be stupid to throw the baby out with the bath water...

Sorry, couldn't resist...  duck 

Remember AC Tango? Started as a separate entity, and then gradually merged back into AC Mainline as a fare option. bmi made a mistake calling their lowest class of fares 'tiny fares' when 'baby fares' would have made a possible transition back into mainline (a la Tango) much smoother. I still reckon this could be a possible development in the future, although it probably hurts bmi bad to know that bmibaby has a stronger brand now than bmi itself.

*j*


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5086 times:

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 15):
As FR operates hubs from LTN & STN I don't think there is a problem

Wit the exception of Buzz, that was organic growth which the compeition authorities can't do much about. Any Easyjet takeover of bmi baby wouldn't be organic growth



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User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4921 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 17):
Wit the exception of Buzz, that was organic growth which the compeition authorities can't do much about. Any Easyjet takeover of bmi baby wouldn't be organic growth

The same could be said of U2 when they bought Go.


User currently offlinePadster From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4890 times:

well the BMI (and baby ) pilots and balpa would have a lots to say about the pay deals that bmi management are proposing at the moment .. so it would not be the same as go ...

User currently offlineRyanair0pk From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4701 times:

Personally i think they are thinking too much about in cabin things eg magazines and gifts etc..

I was gutted that there was no BHX-NQY service this summer! i used that 5 or 6 times last year it saves the 3 or 4 hour car journey and its flying! They now only operate teeside and manchester to newquay... Newquay wasa popular destination from birmingham too , the flights were always full..


{PK}


User currently offlineCwldude From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 691 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4530 times:

bmiBaby certainly really need to do something before TOM and EZY give them a run for their money.

TOM are going to announce a low-cost CWL base next year, and EZY are forever expanding at BRS, they've now announced CDG which is a route bmiBaby could easily have made work from CWL if they used their own aircraft insted of 6G.

As far as EMA is concerned, as said TOM are concentrating on it for their high frequency summer destinations, and EZY are doing really well there too!

LS will run them out of the water at MAN without any problems, they're proving to be an excellent low-cost airline and will grow very much over the coming years!

If bmi don't start shifting soon, they're gonna find bmiBaby losing their passengers to the better opponents.



Thomson Airways - The UKs premier charter airline // now flown : BY -AA -AJ -AE -AT; OO -AX -AU -RA -BG; BRIG; OBYD
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4917 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

Quoting Cwldude (Reply 21):
TOM are going to announce a low-cost CWL base next year, and EZY are forever expanding at BRS, they've now announced CDG which is a route bmiBaby could easily have made work from CWL if they used their own aircraft insted of 6G.

Maybe TOM will do CWL-ORY?



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineEurohub From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3658 times:

Quoting Jamesontheroad (Reply 16):
bmi made a mistake calling their lowest class of fares 'tiny fares' when 'baby fares' would have made a possible transition back into mainline (a la Tango) much smoother.

Ah, but the "baby" is called Tiny!



Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
User currently offlineCwldude From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 691 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3329 times:

Quoting Humberside (Reply 22):

I really do hope so

I know they're offering the same high frequency routes to PMI, AGP, IBZ, TFS and ALC.

Would like to see them adding ORY, PSA, BCN, and maybe VLC!



Thomson Airways - The UKs premier charter airline // now flown : BY -AA -AJ -AE -AT; OO -AX -AU -RA -BG; BRIG; OBYD
25 StarGoldLHR : Maybe one option is for bmi to offload it's A320's to BMI baby and sell the 737's. Then buy a buy of ERJ's for it's bmi operation to reflect it's shri
26 BmiBaby737 : I have heared rumours of BmiBaby flying into Southampton, although how true this may be I do not know.
27 Ryanair737 : As I have said above, bmibaby is still receiving B737s. They aren't in the immediate future looking for any replacement for them. As I also said baby
28 ZBA320 : Are they getting the rest of the ex-easyJet B733s or have EZY got rid of them all now?
29 Planesarecool : Why do BMI Baby need to replace their fleet? The B737-300/500 is one of the most widely used aircraft for low cost operations across the globe. They o
30 ANstar : They need to combine them under one brand again as they are now both Low Cost carriers. Get rid of the 733's and stick with an all 320/319 fleet for
31 StarGoldLHR : bmi mostly operates from the midlands... I wouldnt be surprised to see a teenage pregnancy here and see a bmi baby spawn it's own baby airline.
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