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AA And Cancelling Flights  
User currently offlineFlamedude707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 235 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4990 times:

Last week, I was traveling SJC-ORD-EWR on American. At ORD, American decided to cancel the flight into Newark. They gave some unclear reason but someone on te AA staff believed it was due to " traffic congestion". So if they have too many flights they just decide to cancel at random? At the re-booking desk, some obnoxious lady just handed us a 1 800 number and told us to deal with the problem ourselves. They were not wiling to even tell you what flights they had later on. The part that really upset me was that they said that they were not responsible for paying for a hotel, finding you a hotel, arranging transportation to a hotel, or helping you find another flight through the airport staff. AA said that they were not responsible for their customers beyond the flight. This is ridiculous, especially when UA, AA's main competitor at ORD, was willing to give all of their cancelled flight's passengers hotels and transportation complementary. My question is, shouldn't AA be responsible for passengers they are serving, especially when they screw up travel plans for BS reasons? My second question is, why doesn't AA and UA fly bigger planes on high congestion routes? That day, there were over 100 passenger's on the standby for every AA flight from ORD to the east coast including, JFK, EWR, LGA, ABE, BWI, IAD and they are sitting there flying MD-80's that just dont have the capacity to properly fly that route. The same situation was going on with UA.


Time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted.
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetBlue From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 393 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4954 times:

Welcome to ORD operations. When ORD weather is combined with east coast weather and ATC delays, flights get cancelled left and right.

And no, United does not provide complimentary hotels to their stranded passengers when there are ATC delays and cancellations. Trust me, when I lived in Indiana I worked for United and that was not the case with our ORD flights. I can just guarantee you that if UA has ATC cancellations they are not shuttling all their passengers to the nearest hotel with a free night's stay. AA will not pay either, as they are literally obligated to cancel a certain number of departures when the ATC holds/delays are lengthy.

This day and age, especially during the summer, flights are full. Get used to it. Weather happens and they cancel a flight with 130 people on it? Yes, you'll see a long standby list.

It would be nice if AA and UA had 777s lying around ready to fly ORD-LGA in case there is a weather/ATC cancellation.

Right. That would make perfect sense. Dream on!

I'm sorry you had a bad experience flying through Chicago during ATC congestion. Hopefully a future flight through ORD will be on a less hectic day!

jetBlue



We know for you it's not just a seat on a flight to a place. It's a seat on a flight to your life.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4938 times:

Quoting Flamedude707 (Thread starter):
So if they have too many flights they just decide to cancel at random?

Yup.. Welcome to flying in the northeast. Cancelled flights due to traffic congestion is a very-very common event in at JFK-EWR-LGA airports. Just too many planes, not enough space. Are they responsable...? Better read your ticket jacket next time.

[Edited 2006-08-07 05:44:46]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4923 times:

It still amazes me why connecitng passengers choose ORD when other hub airports are much better choices as far as minimizng the chances of a delay/cancelled flight. Should have flown through DFW


"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3918 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4890 times:
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Quoting EMBQA (Reply 2):
Better read your ticket jacket next time.



Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 3):
It still amazes me why connecitng passengers choose ORD

Connecting passengers choose ORD because Expedia/Orbitz or their travel agent tells them to. The ticket jacket doesn't say "Don't connect at ORD, go to DFW." UA would be out of business if it did. Expedia would be cut off from UA and AA if it gave its customers a warning about the risks of connecting at ORD.
So how are the less... seasoned travellers among us supposed to know that ORD isn't an ideal place to get a connecting flight? Just because the information is out there doesn't mean that everyone knows about it.

Besides, the problems are generally seasonal. I've had much more success than failure connecting at ORD over the years. I just don't tempt my luck in the summer, unless I really need to.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineFlamedude707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4837 times:

Trust me..., I know what ORD traffic is like. I have flown through ORD several times, and have had delays of from an hour to 5 hours almost half the time. Though, just because they cancel one flight, it should not mean that every flight to the east cast whithin the next four hours has astandby list of 50+. If airlines know ATC will hold delays, why do they scedules many fights out of that airport. Shouldn't AA try to shift some of their connecting operations to ST. Louis to free up congestion. It is in the same general location.


Time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted.
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2971 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4820 times:

Quoting Flamedude707 (Reply 5):
Shouldn't AA try to shift some of their connecting operations to ST. Louis to free up congestion. It is in the same general location.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

To me it does seem unfair that AA wouldn't even pay for hotel accommodations. ATC is a bitch - I know, I live in New York - but if the airport cannot handle the traffic,then something needs to be done to cut it down. While it isn't completely AA's fault that the flight was canceled, overall it sort of was in that they scheduled too many flights at an airport that frequently has such problems (well, at least according to this thread, that is). Wouldn't one think that by now AA realized what a mess ORD is in the summer and they would have therefore scheduled their flights accordingly?

That's just my opinion; take it or leave it.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4794 times:

I

Quoting Flamedude707 (Thread starter):
The part that really upset me was that they said that they were not responsible for paying for a hotel, finding you a hotel, arranging transportation to a hotel, or helping you find another flight through the airport staff. AA said that they were not responsible for their customers beyond the flight. This is ridiculous, especially when UA, AA's main competitor at ORD, was willing to give all of their cancelled flight's passengers hotels and transportation complementary. My question is, shouldn't AA be responsible for passengers they are serving, especially when they screw up travel plans for BS reasons?

bla bla bla

it's all in the airline's Contract of Carriage. Neither American or United provide hotels or meals when connections are missed due to circumstances beyond their control. Weather and Air Traffic Control are both beyond anyone's control and the airlines assume no liability for any expenses incurred by the customer as a result of either. Whether or not you believe the airline's excuse for not operating as YOU expected is your opinion. If you think you are dealing with an disreputable firm that would lie to its customers, choose another airline next time.

It's a rough world out there. You've got to be prepared to pay your own way.

This summer in particular, flights are so heavily booked that if a customer misses a connection, there are frequently no seats available on a confirmed basis for two days OR MORE.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4794 times:

I flew AA SJC-ORD just yesterday... biggrin 

anyway....AA isn't responsible for weather delays....if you are a Platinum, ExecPlatinum flyer, you might be able to get some extra help..but forget about the free hotel...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4671 times:
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on the issue of getting a hotel room when you're flight is delayed or canceled due to no fault of your own.....
what most people don't realize is that you can ask for a distressed passenger rate from the airlines, this gives you a voucher for a local hotel good for either a significant discount or a comped room, generally you have to ask for it, the airline won't volunteer it and you're at the mercy of the airline as to which hotel you're at. i deal quite frequently with passengers whose flights have been delayed and or canceled and if they don't want to shell out the money for a hotel i'll suggest they ask for this.

I also think it's rather apalling how little responsibility the airlines take nowadays for their customers when it comes to adversity. I realize that the airline has no control over weather, i also realize that flights nowadays are booked completely solid, so reaccomodating passengers from delayed and canceled flights becomes a mission impossible sometimes, just because the seats aren't there, i even go so far as to realize that airlines cannot generally pull spare aircraft out of thin air to accomodate stranded passengers and of course they're not going to bump today's passengers to accommodate yesterday's strandees, maybe the airlines should consider taking all those aircraft sitting in the desert, baking away and waiting to be turned into soda/beer cans, get them back into a semblance of airworthiness and form some kind of reserve fleet that can be activated with very short notice to provide the extra capacity needed. or at the very least, airlines should start cooperating with one another and abandon the whole policiy of not interlining passengers who are affected by "acts of god" not to mention get back into the habit of proactively reprotecting passengers, rather than just "send them to the ticket counter"

just my 2 cents



Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlineFlightopsguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

EWR is the problem. Too many flights scheduled after 12 Noon every day. Even with perfect weather, delays are likely. Look at the Airport Arrival Demand Chart on www.fly.faa.gov. Any little weather blip and major delays result.

ORD is very fragile ATC-wise when there is weather in the midwest or between ORD and the eastcoast.

When de-regulation of the airlines became law back in the 1970's, rules regarding re-accomodation of pax were loosened, as a trade off for unregulated, and lower airfares.



A300-330 BAC111/146/J31/41 B99/1900 CV580 B707-777 DC8/9/10 L188/1011 FH227/28/100 SB340 DO228 EMB2/170 CR2-900 SH330-60
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11411 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4606 times:

Quoting Flamedude707 (Thread starter):
So if they have too many flights they just decide to cancel at random?

They don't just "cancel at random." It was done for a very specific reason.

Quoting Flamedude707 (Thread starter):
The part that really upset me was that they said that they were not responsible for paying for a hotel, finding you a hotel, arranging transportation to a hotel

ATC and/or weather are outside of American's control. If a flight cancels for a mechanical, strike, walk-out, etc. -- they provide you with accomodation. For weather, ATC, acts of God, orders from government -- you're on your own.

Quoting Flamedude707 (Thread starter):
My question is, shouldn't AA be responsible for passengers they are serving, especially when they screw up travel plans for BS reasons?

It's hardly a B.S. reason. ATC and weather are completely out of AA's control.

Quoting Flamedude707 (Reply 5):
If airlines know ATC will hold delays, why do they scedules many fights out of that airport.

If people know that the airport will be busier and more congested at 5pm, and thus more delays are likely at that time, why do they still insist on flying then?

Quoting Flamedude707 (Reply 5):
Shouldn't AA try to shift some of their connecting operations to ST. Louis to free up congestion. It is in the same general location.

AA should try and do whatever is in its best interests. Obviously, AA has determined thus far that living with delays at O'Hare, and the tens of millions in added costs it no doubt brings each year is more economically viable than shifting flights to St. Louis. Now, this may change in the future, and perhaps you will see more and more flying shift to St. Louis. For the moment, though, O'Hare is pretty much what you get.

Hopefully things will improve there once the airfield is reconfigured, sometime in 2048.


User currently offlineJm017 From Jamaica, joined Jun 2002, 1227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4585 times:

Quoting Flamedude707 (Thread starter):
At the re-booking desk, some obnoxious lady just handed us a 1 800 number and told us to deal with the problem ourselves. They were not wiling to even tell you what flights they had later on.

This is the part that really bugs me. That they didn't provde accommodations, well that's unfortunate, but the reason for the cancellation is beyond the airline's immediate control. But to NOT offer rebooking assistance? Bad.



"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4560 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 11):
ATC and/or weather are outside of American's control. If a flight cancels for a mechanical, strike, walk-out, etc. -- they provide you with accomodation. For weather, ATC, acts of God, orders from government -- you're on your own.

For weather, ATC, acts of God, orders from government, can we at least write the hotel expenses off as a tax break?  Wink



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1832 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4555 times:

Sounds like a bummer of a trip. I used to fly via ORD all the time, but now I book my AA flights via DFW whenever possible.

Obviously, neither your nor AA have any control over the weather or many other factors that can impede flights. But you are, imo, entitled to a reasonable level of customer service. There's no reason why AA couldn't have explained the situation to you with a professional demeanor; tried to find alternative transportation, on another carrier if necessary; and made every effort to make your delay as short and pleasant as possible.

There's no way to get compensation for the delay if it was due to weather or other forces outside of AA's control; but you should complain vigorously in writing (not email, imo) to AA about the lousy customer service. Be as specific as possible, providing flight numbers, times, gates, names - if you have any, and how you were treated. Include copies of your boarding passes and/or tickets. If your first letter doesn't get a response write a second one - and keep writing. Send it to: AA Customer Relations, P.O. Box 619612 MD 2400, DFW Airport, TX 75261-9612. (I've had to use this address a few times myself.)

Sub-standard customer service is not acceptable.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4427 times:

Quoting Contrails (Reply 14):
Sounds like a bummer of a trip. I used to fly via ORD all the time, but now I book my AA flights via DFW whenever possible.

DFW during the summer is just as bad (ok, not as bad, but close)....I try to avoid DFW during the summers because of thunderstorms...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4395 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
DFW during the summer is just as bad (ok, not as bad, but close)....I try to avoid DFW during the summers because of thunderstorms...

My father lives near DFW, and I grew up around there. There hasn't been more than a trace of rain in the past 2 months, and that really isn't that uncommon for this time of year.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineFlamedude707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4366 times:

SO it has been said that in the summer, ailrines know there flights will be overbooked. Then why don't they assign a larger plane? Are they completely short of planes? I just don't understand why they insist on flying MD-80's that dont hold enough?


Time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted.
User currently offlineDartland From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 643 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4366 times:
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Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
DFW during the summer is just as bad (ok, not as bad, but close)....I try to avoid DFW during the summers because of thunderstorms...

I disagree. Yes, there are passing thunderstorms (mostly in late spring, early summer), but even those go by quickly. DFW has 7 (yes SEVEN) runways and plenty of acreage (as well as sky-space) to handle it. Congestion delays there are very rare (sure, you'll taxi for 25 minutes, but that's better than a cancelled flight or waiting for an hour to take-off!)


As for this whole miss-connection discussion -- my girlfriend got a free hotel room at ATL for a missed FL connection a few weeks ago. 1-night free at the Crowne Plaza (not too shabby!) next to the airport. Her and everyone else who missed their connection waited in line for 20-30 minutes and got their vouchers. It sucked, but at least FL ponied up with accommodations. Not sure why her flight was late (weather was not bad), but pretty sure it was just congestion that created a chain-reaction throughout the day and led to a late arrival and subsequent departure from her origin.

Anyways, point being -- no mechanical failure or walk-out, and yet FL gave a hotel room. Sounds like once again, we have an LCC out-spending a network carrier.


User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4364 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 6):
While it isn't completely AA's fault that the flight was canceled, overall it sort of was in that they scheduled too many flights at an airport that frequently has such problems (well, at least according to this thread, that is). Wouldn't one think that by now AA realized what a mess ORD is in the summer and they would have therefore scheduled their flights accordingly?

To do this in any meaningful way would require them to organize schedules with other airlines. While the DoJ has given the airlines some ability to do this recently, there are still a myriad of antitrust issues surrounding this practice.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 9):
maybe the airlines should consider taking all those aircraft sitting in the desert, baking away and waiting to be turned into soda/beer cans, get them back into a semblance of airworthiness and form some kind of reserve fleet that can be activated with very short notice to provide the extra capacity needed.

If your average passenger would be willing to pay more than $250 for a round-trip ticket, airlines would have the financial ability to do this. It took parking those planes in the desert and getting load factors up to 90% for the airlines to break even. They can't be expected to dump excess capacity on the market if it means they'll lose money.

Quoting Jm017 (Reply 12):
But to NOT offer rebooking assistance? Bad.

I agree.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
DFW during the summer is just as bad (ok, not as bad, but close)....I try to avoid DFW during the summers because of thunderstorms...

DFW might be bad for two months out of the year -- August and September. All things considered, it's nowhere near the nightmare that ORD is. There is slightly less traffic, and more runway capacity to bring things back online after a delay. You are much, much less likely to get a cancellation due to delay at DFW than you are at ORD.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11411 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4353 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 15):
DFW during the summer is just as bad (ok, not as bad, but close)....I try to avoid DFW during the summers because of thunderstorms...

You must have had bad luck. In my experience, D/FW is one of the easiest and best airports to transit through in terms of weather/congestion issues. With 7 non-intersecting runways, it pretty much takes a tornado to shut down the entire airfield at D/FW.


User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4336 times:

Quoting Flamedude707 (Thread starter):
Last week, I was traveling SJC-ORD-EWR on American.

My two cents worth; fly non-stop, from the bay area several flights operate non-stop to EWR.


User currently offlineFlamedude707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4321 times:

I had $400 vouchers from AA so I took what they gave me. They didn't offer a non-stop. Usually, I fly UA SFO-PHL.


Time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted.
User currently offlineJetblue From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 393 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4297 times:

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 9):
maybe the airlines should consider taking all those aircraft sitting in the desert, baking away and waiting to be turned into soda/beer cans, get them back into a semblance of airworthiness and form some kind of reserve fleet that can be activated with very short notice to provide the extra capacity needed

Bringing aircraft back from the desert just to be sitting around waiting for cancellations would be very expensive and counter-productive. These ATC/weather problems result from too many planes scheduled to an airport when there are delays in effect. What good would extra planes do? Plus, if an airline is going to bring back planes from storage, they will be for scheduled flights and expansion.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 9):
airlines should start cooperating with one another and abandon the whole policiy of not interlining passengers who are affected by "acts of god" not to mention get back into the habit of proactively reprotecting passengers, rather than just "send them to the ticket counter"

Airlines do cooperate with one another when irregular operations are in effect. There ia a Rule 120/240 that protects passengers on other carriers when problems arise. The reason you won't see much interlining of tickets with an ATC situation is that the other airlines are facing the same problems and more than likely have no available seats, either.

jetBlue



We know for you it's not just a seat on a flight to a place. It's a seat on a flight to your life.
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4254 times:

Quoting Flamedude707 (Reply 17):
Then why don't they assign a larger plane?

Are you kidding? The bigger plane will be booked until it too is oversold. Bigger planes are oversold by a greater number of seats too usually. That is when it gets annoying. What airlines may have to start considering is not overselling flights during specific periods. I can justify it in off periods, but summer time, the seats are usually booked and sold.



There is something special about planes....
25 Jacobin777 : I mentioned "summers" specifically because I've had weather delays in about 1/2 my flights when connecting via DFW...and not because of delays in oth
26 AADC10 : I have no idea why people connect through ORD when both AA and UA have alternative hubs with fewer delays, DFW and DEN respectively. Both DFW and DEN
27 AA717driver : The reason there are 50+ people on the standby lists the rest of the day is that the load factors are through the roof. One hiccup and you're done for
28 Ckfred : My wife was on an Eagle flight from ORD to CLT today. Departure was scheduled for 4:30pm. Then it was pushed back to 6:15. Later, it was pushed back t
29 Flamedude707 : It may be true, but for 10-15 flights on multiple carriers? Seems unlikely. It's just too many people. It wont be more planes, it will be less. You g
30 AirSpare : DFW is a miserable place to connect, the train is a PITA, you have to travel a large circuit to go short distances, DFW is America's answer to LHR, w
31 Apodino : Some of my thoughts from someone who works in the industry and sees what actually goes on behind the scenes. Part of the problem with the NY airports,
32 Commavia : As many will attest, the weather doesn't have to be sitting right over O'Hare. If there is weather within 1,000 miles east or west, it can lead to AT
33 AirSpare : I had 3 connections there in the last 2 months, MEX and ICT and MCO in the dash. I missed my connection to ICT, and no, the people mover is not conve
34 Commavia : Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I have transited through dozens of airports on five continents and find D/FW's new SkyLink to b
35 Ckfred : I understand. Last year, my wife had a flight from ORD to SDF cancelled, because of a line of severe thunderstorms that extended from Detroit to Sout
36 Yellowtail : 2 weeks ago...they cancelled several BZE flights from DFW and MIA sporadically for a coupel of days....I was stuck in DFW on the Sunday.
37 NorthstarBoy : actually, FYI, rule 240 only covers delays or cancellations that are within the control of the airline, mechanicals, crew issues and etc, rule 260 is
38 Post contains images IH8B6 : Yeah..but if AA didn't schedule so many flights, someone else would swoop in and schedule where AA didn't.... Sure, but with the reserve fleet you ne
39 CentPIT : Will this change when the Republic Base in PIT is officially opened, or will this be solely for E70s?
40 FLFlyGuy : I cannot defend an agent being obnoxious, but the idea behind calling the 800 number is that now that virtually everyone has cell phones, why would y
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