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Getting Luggage Off An A380  
User currently offlineMymorningsong From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 98 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6808 times:

Let me start by saying I don't want to initiate an A vs B discussion. I'm a Boeing fan myself, but the A380 is a phenomenal accomplishment.

With all the discussions about widening runways and changing gate configurations for the A380's arrival, I haven't heard much about what impact the amount of luggage those 555ish people are carrying will have on airports baggage claim areas. I have only done overseas widebody flights a few times, but my experience is that it takes significantly longer to get your bags. This is to be expected, but how much of an impact will the A380 have on this vs. a 747/340?

From the following Airbus site....
http://events.airbus.com/a380/seeing/learnandplay/faq.asp#q3

"Will it take me longer to board and to retrieve my luggage?
The innovative cabin of the A380 includes a wide dual-lane staircase, which will allow you to board the aircraft in the same time as any other large aircraft, using two standard bridges. Many airports are planning direct passenger access to the upper deck of the aircraft.
The use of longer or linked baggage belts carrousels will ensure that your baggage is delivered in times comparable to today's.
Passenger convenience for boarding and de-boarding has been carefully considered early on in our consultation with both the airports, which will accommodate the aircraft and the airlines, which will operate it."

What does "longer or linked baggage belts carrousels" actually mean. To me, the issue isn't necessarily how long the baggage carrousel are, but how fast they can get the baggage off the plane and down the chutes.

I haven't flown a loaded widebody in a while, so I'm only used to seeing one baggage conveyer belt. How many will the A380 and other widebodies use?

Which A380 airports are most vulnerable to these issues?

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6787 times:

The pax bags will be in pallets in the belly of the plane, just like any other widebody. Except there will be more of them.

I don't think that the delay will be getting the pallets out of the plane itself, but rather unloading the pallets by hand (bearing in mind there are so many bags that have to be ripped/torn/destroyed/lost in the process  Wink ).

Many of the airports have pretty big baggage carousels, but how much bigger they need to be is anybody's guess. I have been on a 777 with about 400 people on board, and the baggage carousel wasn't exactly overloaded - but whether 555 people's luggage will be too much, time will tell.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6762 times:

Quoting Mymorningsong (Thread starter):
I haven't heard much about what impact the amount of luggage those 555ish people are carrying will have on airports baggage claim areas.

Gordon Bethune had a great comment on just this a year or so back. Maybe someone can find it... it was a true classic.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineGBan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6718 times:

Shouldn't it be possible to treat it as 2 flights and put first/biz and economy on different belts - as on departure with 2 separate boarding areas in some airports?

User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6694 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 2):
Gordon Bethune had a great comment on just this a year or so back. Maybe someone can find it... it was a true classic.

If by "great comment" and "true classic" you mean "rubbish" and "talking out of his arse"... while his comments didn't surprise me (he has strong ties to Boeing), it still astounds me that someone with such knowledge of the industry would say a company the size of Airbus will place such a big bet solely on "engineers' testosterone". Whether the A380 will be a market success or huge flop is yet to be seen, but his comments were not much more than asinine bias and outright rubbish.

Former Continental Airlines boss Gordon Bethune took aim Thursday at the 600-seat Airbus A380, saying the biggest passenger jet ever built has more to do with "engineers' testosterone" than giving passengers what they want.

"What's in it for you to wait in line with 600 other people to get on an airplane?," said Bethune, who retired as Continental's (CAL: news, chart, profile) chairman and chief executive officer at the end of last year.

Bethune, speaking at the Investment Company Institute 2005 general membership meeting in Washington, is also a former Boeing Co. executive and a pilot. See full story.

"What's in it for you to wait for your bag with 600 people? What's in it for you to wait in customs and immigration lines with 600 people?," he asked.



Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3574 posts, RR: 67
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6687 times:

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 1):
The pax bags will be in pallets in the belly of the plane, just like any other widebody

On wide body aircraft, most airlines use containers, such as LD-3's, rather than pallets for passenger baggage.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineGmcc From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6600 times:

At LAX they will probably do what they have done in the past when a 747-400 comes in. Bags will come out on 2 carrousels. A bit troublesome watching two different spots for your bag, but it is doable.

User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1568 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6577 times:

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 4):
What's in it for you to wait in customs and immigration lines with 600 people?," he asked.

That can already be done at the fantastic and glorious London Heathrow.



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6416 times:

Quoting Gmcc (Reply 6):
At LAX they will probably do what they have done in the past when a 747-400 comes in. Bags will come out on 2 carrousels. A bit troublesome watching two different spots for your bag, but it is doable.

I don't know, with a little bit of planning (and potentially some process re-engineering) it seems to me that it would be easier with an A380 to distribute bags across two belts.

Use one belt for the upper deck, one belt for the lower deck.

(This, of course, assumes that you can make sure that LD3s are dedicated to "Upper" and "Lower" decks, perhaps by treating each deck as a separate flight for baggage purposes ["ZZ1234A" for the upper deck, "ZZ1234B" for the lower deck, for example]

Lincon



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently onlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12263 posts, RR: 35
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6384 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 8):
Use one belt for the upper deck, one belt for the lower deck

This is exactly what I was thinking as well. Of course last minute seating changes might screw this up, but then you should know that your bag will arrive with the bags from your original seat.



“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6202 times:

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 5):
On wide body aircraft, most airlines use containers, such as LD-3's, rather than pallets for passenger baggage.

Sorry OldAeroGuy, difference in phraseologies where I come from. LD3's etc were always referred to as pallets.. Not technically exactly the same - I know, but they all beat the old hand-loading and unloading...



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineMacc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 1068 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6036 times:

off topic:

Quote:
Will the economy class also benefit from more space or will it be only for the business and first classes?
....and the latest generation of in flight entertainment will also significantly enhance passenger comfort.

will LH replace their old tv's with brand new flatscreens?  scratchchin 



I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5768 times:

Quoting GBan (Reply 3):
Shouldn't it be possible to treat it as 2 flights and put first/biz and economy on different belts - as on departure with 2 separate boarding areas in some airports?

I think some airports use two carousels for 747 flights anyway, so using one for biz/first and another for eco class would make sense.


User currently offlineORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5682 times:

Quoting GBan (Reply 3):
Shouldn't it be possible to treat it as 2 flights and put first/biz and economy on different belts - as on departure with 2 separate boarding areas in some airports?

LH already does this at ORD for the 747. F/C on one belt and y on the next belt over. It doesn't always work pervectly as My C bag ended up on the Y belt. As far as customs lines go 600 plus pax is not uncommon at ORD when 2 or 3 plus arrivalls hit the gates at once. The increase is incremental on the 380 for busy airports on the arrivals area.


User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 524 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5325 times:

You also have to see that there will never ever be 555 pieces of luggage on there at once. When the first ones come out, they will be picked up before the last ones are even unloaded. And I doubt there will be too much trouble. The A340-600 right now is just as troubling about the unloading times of the containers, cause the tube is just beyond long!

Cheers,

Thilo



- When dreams take flight, follow them -
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5131 times:

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 14):
When the first ones come out, they will be picked up before the last ones are even unloade

I think you may be being a touch optimistic here... Although I have had much better luck with CO than other airlines, in the past I've noted that when my luggage arrives on the belt is inversely related to when I got off the plane -- If I was the first one off, my bag would be the last one on the belt, and seemingly, if I were the last one off, my bag was the first one off the belt.

There are also going to be the families who check 37 bags for their one week vacation.

In thinking about it, though, since the A380 is intended for hub to hub flying, it's entirely likely that a large percentage of the bags on any given flight will never hit the belt(s) and instead be transfered to other flights.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineRAPCON From Puerto Rico, joined Jul 2006, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4567 times:

From Airbus:

"The use of longer or linked baggage belts carrousels will ensure that your baggage is delivered in times comparable to today's. Passenger convenience for boarding and de-boarding has been carefully considered early on in our consultation with both the airports, which will accommodate the aircraft and the airlines, which will operate it."

READ: Boarding/De-boarding is not our problem, it's the airport's headaches, so don't bother us with that question again!!!



MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2302 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4075 times:

I believe that this question is vastly "over-feared" by many people, for two reasons:

1. The A380 is a hub-to-hub airplane, meaning that much of the baggage will be transferred from the A380 to other departing airplanes. When an SQ A380 arrives in SIN from SYD, much of the baggage will be loaded onto 777s and 747s flying from SIN to BKK, DEL, PEK, LHR, CDG, etc.

2. I'm working at ARN, which was not built for large airplanes but mostly for the 737s and DC9s flying in the 1970s. The worst baggage nightmare at ARN is the IR 747, which usually has 400+ passengers and 800 pieces of baggae. And guess what? It works every time! Compared to this, a TG 747 usually has around 400 pieces of baggage. Most A380 operators will probably have around 470-520 seats, and I don't believe that the additional number of passengers will be such a big problem.

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 4):
"What's in it for you to wait for your bag with 600 people? What's in it for you to wait in customs and immigration lines with 600 people?," he asked.

By using that same logic, no sane person on earth should be willing to be on an airplane which arrives at LHR at 06:00 AM. But guess what? Even if there are not 600 people, but several thousands of people who arrive at LHR within a short period in the early morning, there are (evidently) thousands of people who are willing to do so. And it doesn't matter whether you are on a 767 or an A380. If you arrive during the peak hours, you will still have to go through customs and immigration together with thousands of other people.

Guess what? Most passengers actually prefer to arrive during the peak hours! If they would not have preferred to do that, then the peak hours would not have been peak hours.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 8):
Use one belt for the upper deck, one belt for the lower deck.

What if I'm living in Sweden, and I want to fly SQ to Sydney, and I get my baggage tags at ARN for a flight ARN-CPH on SK and CPH-SIN-SYD on SQ, and if they for some reason cannot assign me a seat at ARN for the SIN-SYD A380 flight? What tag should they put on, for the lower or upper deck?



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineAC320tech From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3148 times:

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 5):

On wide body aircraft, most airlines use containers, such as LD-3's, rather than pallets for passenger baggage.

No one uses pallets for pax baggage, its dumb. It takes way to long to build it, strap it, secure it, load it in, then un-secure it, take the strapping off, and un-build it.

The A380's holds are close to the 747, you might be able to fit an additional 2 LD-3's (or one LD-8) in there. So if anything, it will be like the 747.


User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1733 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2750 times:

It will probably be just as slow as unloading a 744. Which, in my experience takes the longest to unload.

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