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How To Know What You Are Flying Next To..  
User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1428 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4590 times:

Hi guys

In late october i am embarking on a crazy trip around the world. The details are below:

Delhi - Singapore (sq)
Singapore - Seoul (sq)
Seoul - Sanfrancisco (sq)
Sanfran - chicago (unknown yet)
Chicago - Sao Paulo, brazil (UA)
Sao Paulo - Salvador
Salvador - Sao Paulo
Sao Paulo - Lisbon (TAP)
Lisbon - Frankfurt (TAP)
Frankfurt - Delhi (LH)

I am interested in making the most of my trip in all ways. And hence i am wondering what is the best way to know which planes are flying around you (for air to air shots).
Further, does any A.netter pilot fly on these routes? If so i would LOVE to meet you. Specially if you are my Captain.
And last, which of these routes will have the most traffic on them and hence more chances of air to air shots.

thanks..
PS: I am open to any tips or suggestions on what i can do or will enjoy on this trip!


I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4484 times:

Quoting Deaphen (Thread starter):
And last, which of these routes will have the most traffic on them and hence more chances of air to air shots.

SFO-ORD and LIS-FRA should see quite some crossing traffic.
Any traffic flying in the same direction as your flight, you hardly will get to see (unless it is at a lower altitude and cruising slower than you).
Any oncoming traffic will be that fast and will approach w/o any warning, that it will be difficult to get your camera into operation. (lucky guys upfront, who have a TCAS to prepare their camera Big grin ).
-HT

Quoting Deaphen (Thread starter):
And hence i am wondering what is the best way to know which planes are flying around you (for air to air shots).

No device available to pax and TCAS-information is not piped onto PTV for good reasons.
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1428 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4422 times:

Hey HT,

Thanks alot for your info. I was wondering, can anyone tell me how much in advance a pilot can detect an oncoming aircraft on his TCAS? I ask this because i hope to ask to be alerted whenever there is an aircraft aproaching my plane. I dont know if any pilot will be willing to let out such information to me.

What do you guys think? Or am i being too far fetched in hoping to be alerted just for a photo oppertunity.

thank
nitin



I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3130 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4399 times:

Lucky you.....what the hell takes you on such a great round-the-world trip..?

Anyway, I do look forwad to your trip report....make sure you have a lot of pics to upload..... wave 


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3539 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4382 times:

Quoting Deaphen (Reply 2):
Thanks alot for your info. I was wondering, can anyone tell me how much in advance a pilot can detect an oncoming aircraft on his TCAS? I ask this because i hope to ask to be alerted whenever there is an aircraft aproaching my plane. I dont know if any pilot will be willing to let out such information to me.

I would recommend not asking this question. The most TCAS conflicts come at a time when the pilots are extremely busy (and low), usually in departure and approach configurations. It would be extremely inconvenient for them to alert you, which would entail calling a flight attendant and relaying the information that way...and by the time you got the message, the plane would most likely be out of sight.

Also, were you to ask this question, most flight crews would probably think you were some crazy jerk.

So it is good of you to ask the question now though, as opposed to on the airplane  Smile



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1428 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4300 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 3):
what the hell takes you on such a great round-the-world trip..?

Hey: Well the situation is kind of funny, i am a law student and my father a lawyer, and he has a conference in Salvador and since i am now also almost a lawyer, i am reaping the benefits of fatherly love!!
Anyways, the cheapest option in business class is RTW, and works out perfectly for us because my brother lives up to SFO so we get to see him and go to brazil at the same time. I promise i will document each and every step of my trip for a trip report which i am already excited about!

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 4):
I would recommend not asking this question. The most TCAS conflicts come at a time when the pilots are extremely busy (and low), usually in departure and approach configurations. It would be extremely inconvenient for them to alert you, which would entail calling a flight attendant and relaying the information that way...and by the time you got the message, the plane would most likely be out of sight.

planespotting, thanks for the heads up! But i was thinking more of knowing where other planes are around me while in cruise. Would TCAS show them where the plane is even if its not in a dangerous proximity to our aircraft? I mean if we are cruising at FL370, and there is another flight 1000feet to our left or above us which we may cross, would it be possible for me to ask the captain to alert me about that?

Thanks for your info  Smile
nitin



I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
User currently offline727EMflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

I will be the one to tell you... forget about taking photos in cruise! As has been mentioned, the relative motion is just too much for you to get a shot. Even if you do manage one you will wind up posting a fuzzy blur on A.net asking for help identifying it! A further hit against you is that separation is so great that you simply aren't likely to see anything. Sit back and enjoy the scenery instead.

Now, when you arrive in SFO you have a very good chance of catching glimpse of a side-by-side approach, which is a great photo opportunity! I am not familiar with what times of day are best, but you can do a photo search and see all kinds of ground shots of these approaches. The last time I flew into SFO our UA A319 had a UA A320 as our "wing man." I had the window seat on the "good" side of the aircraft and it was just awesome to watch! Other busy airports will afford you a similar opportunity, but I am not exactly sure as to which ones. I know you can get some good looks at DEN, although the runways are much farther apart than they are at SFO. On a recent UA arrival there I had a good glimpse of an AS 73-something... too far away to tell model.


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3539 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

Quoting Deaphen (Reply 5):
planespotting, thanks for the heads up! But i was thinking more of knowing where other planes are around me while in cruise. Would TCAS show them where the plane is even if its not in a dangerous proximity to our aircraft? I mean if we are cruising at FL370, and there is another flight 1000feet to our left or above us which we may cross, would it be possible for me to ask the captain to alert me about that?

No.

Think about this. The aircraft you are traveling on will be going at least 540 mph. That is around nine miles per minute, which works out to one mile every 6.9 seconds or so. TCAS will show traffic conflicts within 5 miles or so. Most traffic you can see is "closing" traffic, which means it is coming at you. They are also going around 540 mph. This means that the aircraft you are in and the oncoming aircraft that you would like to see are closing at less than one mile every 3.5 seconds. If it shows up at 5 miles, that leaves you around 15 seconds to be made aware of it by the cabin crew. To do that, the Captain/FO would have to call one of the F/A's, wait for them to get to the phone, rely the information, and the then the F/A would have to locate where your seat was, and tell you that there was an aircraft passing. I would say that in a best case scenario situation, that could take around 30 seconds. More likely at least a minute in most situations.

Not to mention the fact that you would be disrupting the flight crew from their assigned duties. The F/A's would most likely be far too busy to be able to relay that information to you anyhow, regardless of whether or not the pilots agreed to do so or not.

In my opinion, it is simply too much of an imposition to ask of the flight crew.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4168 times:

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 7):
TCAS will show traffic conflicts within 5 miles or so.

From wikipedia: "The TCAS displays any other TCAS- or Mode C Transponder-equipped aircraft within a range selected by the pilot, which can vary from 2.5 to about 30 miles."
I suppose, in cruise maximum range will be selected ...

Quoting 727EMflyer (Reply 6):
Now, when you arrive in SFO you have a very good chance of catching glimpse of a side-by-side approach, which is a great photo opportunity!

That opportunity slipped my mind !
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineAMSSFO From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 952 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3981 times:

Quoting HT (Reply 1):
Any traffic flying in the same direction as your flight, you hardly will get to see (unless it is at a lower altitude and cruising slower than you).

You have to be very, very lucky to have an opportunity to shoot an air-to-air pic from your seat in the back of a plane. The other plane has to fly in the same direction, with a slightly different speed in the near vicinity of your plane.
I once was very, very lucky:


Big version: Width: 2592 Height: 1944 File size: 1083kb
AF A340 F-GLZB CDG-SFO taken from KLM MD-11 AMS-SFO on 30 December 2004


I flew on KL605 from AMS to SFO (MD-11) when we passed this AF A340-300 somewhere above Northern Canada. We were flying a little faster. I wasn't warned; I just noticed it because I was looking outside to see where we were. The pics turned out a little too white, unfortunately.

I don't think it will hurt when you tell the flight crew before departure you would love to once make an air-to-air pic. Don't ask them anything, but just tell them your Dream. Maybe they will remember you once in the air and create an oppportunity.


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