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Important Cities With Small, Underserved Airports  
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1783 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6798 times:

In my view, Grenoble , France is one.

It is an important town with a huge expatriate population (at least half the town is italian + British + German). There are lots of important tech companies and European research institutes here. It is also a gateway to some of the world's best ski resorts.

It has an airport (GNB) but other than Ryanair and Blu-express no other airline flies here regularly. The "nearest" major airport is LYS, 100 kms away.

I'm sure there is a good demand for carriers like AF/KL/LH to fly from here to major hubs like CDG, FRA or AMS.

Do you know of any other such place?


Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6432 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6729 times:

Santa Fe, New Mexico. Some smaller cities, such as Bismarck, North Dakota, get more air service than Santa Fe. Santa Fe is only served by one airline, Great Lakes Aviation (to Denver), and is on 19-seat Beechcraft 1900D's. Santa Fe IMO should get RJ service to SLC, DFW, PHX, LAS, and LAX.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6722 times:

I wouldn't call it important per se, but Laughlin/Bullhead City is underserved seeing how it is Nevada's next big resort town.

Also Mammoth (MMH) is underserved, especially during peak ski season.


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6685 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 1):
Santa Fe, New Mexico. Some smaller cities, such as Bismarck, North Dakota, get more air service than Santa Fe. Santa Fe is only served by one airline, Great Lakes Aviation (to Denver), and is on 19-seat Beechcraft 1900D's. Santa Fe IMO should get RJ service to SLC, DFW, PHX, LAS, and LAX.

Yes but ABQ is more than overserved, unless you count the traffic to/from Sante Fe.



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineIH8B6 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 208 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6489 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
I wouldn't call it important per se, but Laughlin/Bullhead City is underserved seeing how it is Nevada's next big resort town.

What's happening there to make it the next big resort town?

How well is ROW served? It's kind of out in the middle of nowhere....



Over-moderation sucks
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6432 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6443 times:

Quoting IH8B6 (Reply 4):
How well is ROW served? It's kind of out in the middle of nowhere....

ROW only has service to ABQ.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6344 times:

Fresno, CA
Modesto, CA
Bakersfield, CA
Stockton, CA
Salem, OR
Pueblo, CO
Ft Collins, CO
Rockford, IL
Olympia, WA
Columbia, MO
Wilmington, DE
New Haven, CT



Delete this User
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6302 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
Fresno, CA
Modesto, CA
Bakersfield, CA
Stockton, CA
Salem, OR
Pueblo, CO
Ft Collins, CO
Rockford, IL
Olympia, WA
Columbia, MO
Wilmington, DE
New Haven, CT

I'll agree with Fort Collins, CO, but not Pueblo, CO. Number 1, it's too close to COS, number 2, most of the population couldn't really afford to fly anyway.


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21511 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6276 times:

I'd consider Berlin to be underserved with regard to long-haul flights. The capital of Germany can only manage two flights a day to New York?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6237 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
I'd consider Berlin to be underserved with regard to long-haul flights. The capital of Germany can only manage two flights a day to New York?

LH flew TXL-IAD for a few months in 2001, then cut it. So they did try.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
Wilmington, DE
New Haven, CT

Amen to these two! I still don't understand why WN decided to go to PHL instead of ILG. ILG seems like a perfect PHL reliever airport, perfect for the WN business model, just 25 minutes from downtown Philly, and lots of business in Wilmington. DL/Comair just started flights to ATL, I think, that's Delaware's only commercial service.

HVN is a great little airport too, with a way bigger demand for flights than supply. What a shame. It had UA 737 service in the mid-90s heydey, but hasn't retained mainline service since. Rinky-dink DH8s to PHL on USExpress, and that's it. HVN could support flights to ORD, DTW, DCA (used to), and CLT or RDU. And probably a few more big regionals.


User currently offlineAirlittoralguy From France, joined Nov 2005, 234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6228 times:

Rouen is France ten's biggest agglo and just gets a twice daily ATR to Lyon. But the runway is too short and there is massive opposition from the airport's neighboors as it comes to expansion.

Lille has a ridiculously small airport regarding the city's size, but BRU and CDG are not that far.

Toulon has a rather small airport.

Maybe the cities of le Havre and Caen also qualify for this topic, but there should be a common airport in Deauville.



Normandie : La r�©unification, maintenant ! http://www.mouvement-normand.com/
User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4941 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6196 times:

The southwest Riverside County/Inland Empire area in California has nothing- one has to drive to either SAN or ONT. How big is this area?

300,000 people live within a 45-minute drive of F70 (Temecula/Murrieta), a GA airport with a 6,000 foot runway that sees 100,000 movements annually. NO SERVICE. A similar amount of people live within a 45-minute drive of HMT (Hemet/San Jacinto), also a GA airport, but with only a 4,300 foot runway.

Either one could support services to places like LAX, SFO, PHX, or LAS on Dash 8s or ERJs/CRJs at least...

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Thread starter):
In my view, Grenoble , France is one.

I'm no expert of Grenoble, but are there not pictures of Greenland Air A330-200s visiting there more than once?


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User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26361 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6180 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 1):

Santa Fe, New Mexico. Some smaller cities, such as Bismarck, North Dakota, get more air service than Santa Fe. Santa Fe is only served by one airline, Great Lakes Aviation (to Denver), and is on 19-seat Beechcraft 1900D's. Santa Fe IMO should get RJ service to SLC, DFW, PHX, LAS, and LAX.

SAF is only 43nm from ABQ, there is no way with the level of service ABQ gets that it will see service like that.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
I wouldn't call it important per se, but Laughlin/Bullhead City is underserved seeing how it is Nevada's next big resort town.

Too close to LAS for a significant level of service. Beyond that, it is mainly a place for old people and bikers who are within driving distance.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
Fresno, CA

Not so much anymore

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
Wilmington, DE

WAY too close to too many major airports

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
New Haven, CT

Too close to New York and Hartford

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
Bakersfield, CA

There is a point made there but the proximity to FAT, SBA and LAX all hurt it, as does the lack of facilities.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
Stockton, CA

Nah.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
Rockford, IL

Too close to MSN, MKE and ORD/MDW

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
Olympia, WA

Way too close to SEA and too short a runway

Quoting San747 (Reply 11):
The southwest Riverside County/Inland Empire area in California has nothing- one has to drive to either SAN or ONT. How big is this area?

300,000 people live within a 45-minute drive of F70 (Temecula/Murrieta), a GA airport with a 6,000 foot runway that sees 100,000 movements annually.

The fact that the airport code is F70 should give a hint there  Wink. Aside from the fact that airlines don't go to non-ICAO airports, F70/RBK is way too close to SNA, ONT and SAN to really warrant any traffic. I could see an OO Brasilia service, but the lack of an established service would hurt that idea, as does the lack of a terminal. Further, whenever SAN does move to NKX, the area will be even closer to a large airport.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1783 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6031 times:

Quoting San747 (Reply 11):
I'm no expert of Grenoble, but are there not pictures of Greenland Air A330-200s visiting there more than once?

The only widebodies Grenoble gets are in the form of seasonal ski charters. It gets even IL-86S from Russia during that season.

But other than that, it is an airport that is craving for flights.



Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5981 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 6):
Fresno, CA
Modesto, CA
Bakersfield, CA
Stockton, CA
Salem, OR
Pueblo, CO
Ft Collins, CO
Rockford, IL
Olympia, WA
Columbia, MO
Wilmington, DE
New Haven, CT

You might want to think about adding Provo, UT (PVU) to that list. Yes, there will be those out there that will say PVU is too close to SLC and the big DL hub, but most of the population of the valley on the south end of the Wasatch Front lives and works 40-55 miles from SLC (being located clear up on the NW part of SL City & County) and the traffic on I-15 to get up there is horrid! Keep in mind 20 years ago many said the same thing about COS in relationship to DEN, and they have now had passenger service for that time period. PVU does have an 8500' runway that can easily handle A31X/A32X, 737s, 752s as well as CRJs and EMB-Jets. Three are many business travelers now calling for commercial service to PVU to avoid the long road commute to SLC. The city does have a master plan for upgrading the airport to commercial service, and they are featured in flightaware.com.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5962 times:

Well, Manizales is a city with almost 500.000 inhabitants, it has the biggest emigrant rate of any city in Colombia and yet the airport is a small hut with only about 10 daily dlights on turboprops. Of course, it is very near Pereira which is the hub airport for the region.

7x daily Avianca Fokker-50 to BOG
2x daily ADA DHC6 Twin Otter to MDE
3x daily Aires DHC8-Q200 to BOG

All frecuencies get reduced on weekends.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlinePanPan From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5959 times:

Here's an interesting article about expansion at Santa Fe airport:

http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/47476.html

The low level of scheduled service is due to two factors:
1) It has a class 3 rating, partly because of a prarie dog and burrowing owl issue (don't ask).
2) A former mayor didn't want more air service and went so far as to have the airport manager park trucks on the runway to prevent aircraft from landing (attention: governor of Pago Pago)

The article goes on to say that the current city administration has rethought that stance and is trying to get the airport rated class 1 so they can attract regional jets from Dallas(AA), Denver(UA) and Phoenix(US).


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8197 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5939 times:

I can think of one airport I used to fly often: Salzburg (SZG).
Until a couple of years ago, nearly all major European carriers server SZG: BA, AF, Swissair, KL, LH. Only LH remains, all others have dropped. As a result, I started flying in/out of MUC because without competition to SZG the fares on LH are ridiculously high.


User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5939 times:

Florence airport FLR is pretty puny, with a very short runway, for what is a major tourist destination. Most flights go to Pisa PSA instead as a result...


it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2744 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5932 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
SAF is only 43nm from ABQ, there is no way with the level of service ABQ gets that it will see service like that.

That may be changing fairly soon. The city council recently approved upgrades to the airport, to make it more attractive to airlines. They are supposedly talking to United, American, and America West. I'm willing to bet they can get at least one of them to send some RJs once the improvements are done.

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 3):
Yes but ABQ is more than overserved, unless you count the traffic to/from Sante Fe.

ABQ draws passengers from a large area. They draw passengers from the entire state, plus some from ELP because service at ELP is so minimal. ELP is certainly underserved. I would say ABQ is even underserved because they lack decent service to the New York City area, and don't have regular flights to Mexico, even though the demand is there.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5900 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 19):
ABQ draws passengers from a large area. They draw passengers from the entire state, plus some from ELP because service at ELP is so minimal. ELP is certainly underserved. I would say ABQ is even underserved because they lack decent service to the New York City area, and don't have regular flights to Mexico, even though the demand is there.

Bullcrap. ELP is served pretty well, considering the economics of the area. No one in ELP is going to spend 5 hours driving to ABQ for a slightly better airfare (the driving distance is over 320 statute miles!). They might start to steal catchment from ELP at around Truth or Consequences, New Mexico northwards...there are plenty of connecting flights between ELP and ABQ anyways (WN and DL come to mind...DL used to serve about 50% of their ELP-SLC flights as ELP-ABQ-SLC to capitalize on the ELP-ABQ traffic). I took a few of these DL flights from ELP to ABQ when I was in high school  Smile



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5897 times:

I'd mention LRU, too, but everyone's gonna say it's in ELP's catchment area...LRU used to have 3x daily BE 1900 service to ABQ on YV, but the fares were way too high for anyone other than business.


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2744 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5851 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 20):
Bullcrap. ELP is served pretty well, considering the economics of the area. No one in ELP is going to spend 5 hours driving to ABQ for a slightly better airfare (the driving distance is over 320 statute miles!). They might start to steal catchment from ELP at around Truth or Consequences, New Mexico northwards...there are plenty of connecting flights between ELP and ABQ anyways (WN and DL come to mind...DL used to serve about 50% of their ELP-SLC flights as ELP-ABQ-SLC to capitalize on the ELP-ABQ traffic). I took a few of these DL flights from ELP to ABQ when I was in high school

I might agree with you if I hadn't worked at ABQ and seen passengers who had driven from ELP. Also, neither DL or F9 serve the ABQ-ELP route anymore. WN does connect many people from ELP to ABQ. As for the economics, that is certainly a negative for serving ELP, but the population base there seems large enough to support some extra service.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6343 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5839 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 22):
I might agree with you if I hadn't worked at ABQ and seen passengers who had driven from ELP. Also, neither DL or F9 serve the ABQ-ELP route anymore. WN does connect many people from ELP to ABQ. As for the economics, that is certainly a negative for serving ELP, but the population base there seems large enough to support some extra service

Where can't you go from ELP? You can connect to almost anywhere (conveniently) on AA, WN, DL, CO, HP, F9, or UA...I cetainly never had any problems finding a reasonably-priced flight to anywhere I ever needed to go when I lived there, and there are often multiple choices on how to get there. The only time I've ever run into overbooked flights at ELP is when I go home for Christmas...but I think that's the case pretty much everywhere in the USA at that time of the year  Smile



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5835 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 21):
I'd mention LRU, too, but everyone's gonna say it's in ELP's catchment area...LRU used to have 3x daily BE 1900 service to ABQ on YV, but the fares were way too high for anyone other than business.

LRU isn't that terribly big.. and in the grand scheme of things.. while it's a reasonably nice place to visit, I don't know that I would label it "important". I will agree to wishing that it had more service. The couple of business trips I've had to take out there have been hell - only because I HAVE to fly into ELP. The YV flights into and out of there connected up with exactly.. nothing.

Speaking of them, I've seen schedules for a Westward Air floating around.. I thought they went Tango Uniform a while ago?


25 Mexitli : SLW. Relatively large (close to 500,000) city with large industrial base, yet only two destinations served (pax): MEX and IAH.
26 RAFVC10 : ODB airport in Spain not see regular flights since mid-90's. The nearest airport serving this city is Sevilla. Since AVE train serves this city, the a
27 PavlovsDog : Antelope Valley-(Palmdale-Lancaster) population 480,000. No scheduled flights to my knowledge. Burbank is the closest airport. Victor Valley- 300,000
28 RAFVC10 : Bologna has charter flights to HAV, LRM, MBA, JFK, ZNB, CUN all operated with 763 of Blue Panorama Airlines. JFK is operated with 330 equipment of Eu
29 Boeing744 : Yeah, this can definitely be one on the list. Maybe when the new airport is built (Brandenburg?) it will see some more overseas service.
30 Post contains images KELPkid : Rumor has it that it was just a grand scheme for some rich boys to get their hands on a few Pilatuses...
31 PVD757 : HVN is a reasonable drive (and/or mass transit) to several commercial airports: BDL, HPN, PVD, and NYC. ORH is the 3rd largest city in New England (be
32 MCOflyer : How bout MLB. B6 is supposed to be there by Feb. We currently have MD88's and CRJ's plus B732 subs. In the summer we get 738 service and 732 service.
33 Thepilot : RDU-Because it doesn't have a widebody every two minutes. Signed, A large% of anet.[Edited 2006-08-09 20:44:19]
34 RoseFlyer : Rockford Illinois. It has a metro area of 300,000. It suffers since it is only an hour away from ORD, but it only has about 4 daily flights. I think s
35 TWA902fly : I would have to agree with you on that one - I think its only a matter of time before PVU gets service of its own. Although recently it seems like De
36 Alias1024 : You can get where you want to go, but like you said, you have to connect. Sometimes it is just cheaper to drive 4 hours and pick up the nonstop. SEA,
37 KELPkid : It's a lot longer than 4 hours...it used to take me 4 hours on the nose from the north end of LRU to drive to ABQ (obeying the speed limit of course.
38 Post contains images KELPkid : I happen to fly ELP-PDX a lot WN is perfect, you connect in ABQ (with about an hour to chill and catch a good bite to eat at ABQ). HP isn't bad eithe
39 SLCUT2777 : Actually I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see WN look at PVU with respects to Southern California Connections since Utah County has historically been
40 Bennett123 : My understanding is that flights to Florence are expensive, there is also a direct rail link from Pisa Airport to Florence.
41 RoseFlyer : Florence is in the mountains/hills and has a very short runway with a displaced threshold. It is only about 4000ft, so it is limited to props, four e
42 GAIsweetGAI : Happens everywhere. The weird thing about those cases is that the people who come to live next to the airport complain about the noise, the fuel etc.
43 SLCUT2777 : With all of the NIMBY's in and around FRA, opposing any and all expansion, I've wondered how much a new airport in Berlin could take away from FRA.
44 Post contains images FCYTravis : If by "underserved" you mean not served at all by a scheduled air carrier, yes it's underserved
45 Post contains links and images FATFlyer : Ditto, check, agree, etc. Don't forget the new BFL terminal. The facilities are now available except for a FIS. 3 current jetways with room for 5 or
46 San747 : I know, its probably unrealistic (although F70 has been reported to be looking for a commuter service)... What is weird that Temecula/Murrieta/Hemet/
47 Anthsaun : MTY & GDL. MTY is a 2 million inhabitants town with a small airport having one single European route and a few flights to the USA. GDL is a population
48 SLCUT2777 : I think that given traffic situations on many freeways now, getting to and from an airport will become more of an issue anywhere. The SW corridor in
49 AADC10 : Southern California, the King of suburban sprawl seems to take the cake for areas far from LAX that are not far enough to get their own air service. E
50 Post contains images N1120A : I think something else that is going to hurt Santa Fe in the long run is when Roadrunner service extends up there, allowing for a one seat ride to th
51 Post contains images KELPkid : LRU does have a surrounding metro (although, I'd admit, not very metropolitan ) area-the population of Doña Ana County is over 100,000. There are ma
52 YOW : Stuck between YYZ and YUL, YOW is underserved in that most pax are forced to connect via one of these two places, even though there is sufficient traf
53 Post contains links PavlovsDog : Asuncion, Paraguay is a national capital without a national airline. You really can't get there from much of anywhere. Viña del Mar-Valparaiso is ano
54 QXatFAT : FAT is on the rise. Modesto is fine I believe BFL is fine for right now. If Mexicana comes in the FAT flights might suffer Stockton just got more ser
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