Tonioli From Brazil, joined Nov 1999, 14 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14785 times:
The front left door falled off from a Fokker 100 bound to Rio de Janeiro From Congonhas.
Flight JJ3040 with 79 pax onboard tookoff from Congonhas at 13:47 and returned to the airport at 14:04. The door was ripped off the plane minutes later to open in flight. The door falled at Ipiranga museun without any injuries onboard or on the ground.
Ulfinator From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 311 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14620 times:
Out of curiosity what door are we talking about? I assume a landing gear door and not a cabin door. I ask only becuase what I have read thus far in the thread doesn't seem to clarify.
Jog From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 273 posts, RR: 8 Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14603 times:
Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 1): Wow a scary moment for passengers.
Even worse for the flight attendant sitting right next to the door... Luckily there is no report of injuries to her. I can only imagine that the door was not locked correctly - however it should have an indicator for this.
Let's see how this spreads the news in Brazil. I guess, the good news of more than 50% market share in both domestic and international market won't have a chance against this incident. Also it will not really improve the confidence into TAM's F100 in Brazil.
Jog From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 273 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14542 times:
Quoting Ulfinator (Reply 4): Out of curiosity what door are we talking about? I assume a landing gear door and not a cabin door.
According to the article (and my limited portuguese knowledge), it is the front left door, i.e. the main boarding door. In most of JJ's F100 stairs are integrated into this door, i.e. the door opens downwards to the ground. After closing it hydraulically (or electrically?) it must be locked with a big handle. This locking actually requires quite some power.
MCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8553 posts, RR: 14 Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14432 times:
What was the reg of the ac involved I meant to say?
Jog From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 273 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14319 times:
Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 7): What was the reg of the ac involved I meant to say?
According to Felipe PT-MQN
Edit: Ui.. just realized that my description of JJ's F100 was based on my observations while flying exactly on this plane end of May (SSA-REC-FOR-SLZ-BEL-MAO and return). So the door definetly includes the stairs.
Ghost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5128 posts, RR: 53 Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14259 times:
Quoting Jog (Reply 5): Let's see how this spreads the news in Brazil. I guess, the good news of more than 50% market share in both domestic and international market won't have a chance against this incident. Also it will not really improve the confidence into TAM's F100 in Brazil.
Wow, simply amazing! This will certainly not help the Fk.100 reputation in Brazil! Time to retire the Fk.100 in JJ hehe!
g77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 14179 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting Ulfinator (Reply 4): Out of curiosity what door are we talking about? I assume a landing gear door and not a cabin door. I ask only becuase what I have read thus far in the thread doesn't seem to clarify.
Quoting Jog (Reply 6): According to the article (and my limited portuguese knowledge), it is the front left door, i.e. the main boarding door. In most of JJ's F100 stairs are integrated into this door, i.e. the door opens downwards to the ground. After closing it hydraulically (or electrically?) it must be locked with a big handle. This locking actually requires quite some power.
You're right Jog, your Portuguese seems to be very good!
Funny this flight is delayed today (ETD CGH 10:50) so it seems something could happen early with the plane.
Jog From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 273 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 13959 times:
Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 15): I think they are going with Airbus, not sure what model.
Correct, they ordered A319s and A320s as replacement. But retirement is currently planned until 2010 only.
Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 14): This is the 7th problem with TAM's F100s.
And all off them are in the news again.
I am feeling with TAM's employees asking people to board a F100 during the next days... There will be huge problems before and during every flight. There have been difficult situations before. But I don't want to imagine the situation now. I could well imagine that one or another flight cannot be performed safely due to uncontrollable passenger's behavior.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9080 posts, RR: 13 Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13490 times:
Quoting Jog (Reply 18): No, this was expected, but in the end they ordered the A319 as they assume that demand justifies the bigger plane.
TAM also signed a MoU with Embraer for 25 ERJ-190s plus an option for 75 more aircraft to be taken up as either the ERJ170 or the ERJ190. Is this order still valid? I thaught that these aircraft would replace the F100 as they come closer to the capabilities of the F100 while the A319 is a much heavier aircraft with a longer range, in other words the A319 is more suitable for the longer regional flights within South America while the ERJ190 is able to take up all domestic flights within Brazil and other destinations within South America which are closer to Brazil, in other words the F100 flights. So does JJ also have the ERJ190 on order (25)?
Planekrazy777 From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 57 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13322 times:
I remember years ago maybe (10) A canadian regional F-28 door opened after take off. the crew was able to hydrolicaly lift the door a little ways, enough so it wouldn't get ripped off on landing. Don't believe anyone was hurt in this incident
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 12930 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
The plane will be back to the network tomorrow and due to the maintenance, SSA-GIG-CGH-NVT today flight (JJ3041) has been cancelled, and tomorrow morning the CGH-NVT-CGH early morning flight.
The aircraft does not face major damage.
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
Jrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 365 posts, RR: 12 Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11956 times:
Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 14): This is the 7th problem with TAM's F100s. Time to retire these POS!
Its amazing that just TAM has problems with the F100. The F100 had a fairly good reputation with AA and other airlines.
I am starting to believe that after 7 accidents/incidents with the F100 that POS is TAM maintenance of the F100!
Yes, TAM had 7 accidents/incidents with F100, 1 of them in 1996 killing 96 people on board and 3 on the ground, and two other accidents killing 1 passenger each, and another incident that killed a cow.
PPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8493 posts, RR: 43 Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 11672 times:
I doubt the MoU with Embraer is still valid. TAM went with the A319 because the market expansion has been great and they don't want to lose that potential for growth, or so the claim. Limited resources, you have to prioritize; can't go out buying every plane they think they can use. But I think/hope they will look again at Embraer in the future.
Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
25 Brons2: I only see 1 fatal accident for the F100 that was the fault of an aircraft malfunction. What's so bad about them that people in Brazil are so scared?
26 PPVRA: They don't trust the aircraft. At least not most people. The 1996 crash was horrible- barely missing a school, the plane crashed in the middle of a n
27 AvConsultant: I'm reading the thread and am surprised no one asked another question. How does the door separate from the plane?? It has to be below 12,000 ft before
28 Antiuser: Yea, in Brazil most pax don't really care what aircraft they're flying in, unless it's a Fokker 100. Which is why OceanAir calls their F100s by the o
29 Tonytifao: I heard from a passenger in the news that the F/A did not close the door correctly. He said the latch did not close completely.
30 Tonytifao: Any chance the door could have hit the wing? I saw a computer graphics animation showing the door hiting the wing on Jornal Nacional on Globo.
31 RootsAir: I guess it will just increase TAM's F100s bad reputation amongst the general population (When I wne to Brazil, I was told a few accidents with TAM's
32 A300: F100 is a great plane. Iran Air and Iran Aseman Airlines are adding them as soon as they can get them. I have flown 4 times on the EP F100; three of t
33 RootsAir: Guess its the reason why they are to replace them by A319's
34 LPLAspotter: I caught a free flight from Malabo to Bata in Equatorial Guinea and the door wouldn't close, so the loadmaster used his belt to keep it shut. It was
35 PHKLM: How many cycles are these planes on? I flew a JJ F100 in July and it looked clean and well maintained from both the out- and inside.
36 Aviopic: This can only happen at TAM, I am sorry but can't help it. Embraer better think twice before selling anything, It's bad for your reputation.
37 LipeGIG: A picture of the Door in a supermarket at São Paulo South Zone. Yes, the wing has been hit. As per sources inside TAM, the first simulation made by t
38 DAYflyer: Wow. Not something that happens every day, thats for sure. Bet there were some scared pax.
39 Tiago701: In 2003 i flew REC-FOR-SLZ with JJ on a F100 and we had an emergency landing in FOR as the left engine had to be shut down because of a licking of so
40 787KQ: You need a subscription to get to the link regarding the 7 accidents. But there was one day when there were two accidents, including a wheels up land
41 MCOflyer: I flew on US's F100's all the time and liked it. In fact in the winter mths before they retired them, the type replaced the DC-9 on services to ELM. M
43 Aviopic: And even that is not entirely correct. One of the reversers deployed in the air which is an A/C failure of course but not one that brings your Aircra
44 YULWinterSkies: I have, many times (KL, AA, AF), and it is by far my favourite single-aisle a/c. But, I agree, this is scary...
45 MTY2GVA: I will fly a F100 over older aircraft any day. This must have been a human error. Mexicana and now click in Mexico have had good results with this air
46 AMSSFO: Lauda air B767 near BKK did crash after an uncommanded deployment of the engine thrust-reverser.... Nevertheless, it is true that TAM has a proportio
47 Jrosa: For sure the F100 is not a loved plane in Brazil, but I believe TAM and its maintenance (or lack of) had a big share in the several problems, I mean s
48 Aviopic: Yes but the impact of an uncommanded reverser deployment with the engines mounted underneath the wings is a lot bigger. The problem is tested by seve
49 Antiuser: Here's the black box video of JJ402 with ATC chatter included: You can see that right after takeoff, the right throttle lever doesn't stay in position
50 Rikkus67: I know of an incident up here in Canada about ten years ago of an F-28 main door of Canadi>n Regional opening inflight, shortly after takeoff. The F-1
51 Jog: The locking mechanism seems to be quite complicated. In the German airliners.de someone posted a link to a directive mentioning several occasions of d
52 Aviopic: No doors have been opened during flight just not locked properly. As the AD clearly shows their is no design fault but incorrect use of the mechanism
53 Jog: Well, depends on how you define opening, closed and locked. But obviously, although the design itself is officially not faulty, it must allow an impr
54 Aviopic: Probably not, it's only an advice not a mandatory mod. I do not know whether TAM followed the advice or not but my experience is that airliners usual
55 PPVRA: The strange thing is that the Airbuses seem fine. . . why does this only happen to the F100s? And everytime it's a different thing. Makes no sense.
56 Aviopic: Don't know much about the TAM organisation but I can imagine that the little aircraft are operated by different people or even a different group. Lik
57 Jog: There is nothing like a subsidiary operating all the F100 (only TAM Mercosur in Paraguay has a few frames). So (Co-)Pilots at TAM have a typical care
58 Jrosa: No, the F100s are operated by the same entity. TAM has the F100 in its fleet since 1991, its enough time for TAM to learn how to operate and to take
59 AMSSFO: you would think so, but the circumstances suggest otherwise. On a Brazilian forum it was reported that for some reason the F/A checked the door short
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