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NW Announces New Service  
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2910 posts, RR: 6
Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10575 times:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060808/cgtu055.html?.v=61

Multiple segments for this winter announced. Most interesting one: ANC-KOA-HNL-ANC.

Others:
DTW-STT
DTW-ZIH
MEM-CZM
MSP-PUJ

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 10353 times:

And the PUJ melee heats up a notch.

User currently offlineDTWAGENT From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10187 times:

That is if the F/A's have a contract. Who knows what is going to happen with this...


Chuck


User currently offlineKrisair747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9767 times:

Thank God, some positive NW news. Next will be the European destinations with the 757!! MAN, DUB and SNN!!


Open your heart and push the limits
User currently offlineChugach From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9608 times:

Freakin' SWEET. So, in essence, ANC-HNL will be daily this winter; 2x weekly via KOA and 5x weekly via OGG.

I had a hunch from the get-go when NW started ANC-Hawaii a couple of years ago that it would be a success thanks to the army of AS frequent fliers in Alaska who can burn FF miles on these flights, as well as earn them and have them count towards elite status on AS.

Great news for Anchorage!



GO ROCKETS
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6088 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9591 times:

If NW is filling this flight with FF members they are not going to make a dime on this route. But it will be nice to see ANC get this service.

MEM-CZM stands out to me!

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineWeAreUnited From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 423 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9587 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Thread starter):
ANC-KOA-HNL-ANC.

Looks like NW is really starting to increase their Hawaii service.

Most recent additions to my memory include ANC-OGG, SFO-HNL, and PDX-HNL.

I realize most of these flights are all operated with the 757-300. With NW getting rid of the DC-10's, is this added 753 service simply keeping their total seats available to Hawaii (all islands) the same or is their an increase?

Anyone know how their daily 753 from PDX is holding up??

When my mom was searching for flights to come to PDX from HNL- we just assumed she'd end up on NW as she only wanted to fly non-stop. However- HA ended up coming up cheaper when she actually went to book it. To be honest- I was quite shocked.

The plus side for her- at least she gets a free meal!


User currently offlinePCEX From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9274 times:

PUJ is seasonal service. They flew almost every winter except the last one.

User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 9274 times:

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 2):
That is if the F/A's have a contract. Who knows what is going to happen with this...

If the F/A's strike, NW I'm sure by this point has the means, and will, put in place a plane to replace them with A) replacement workers (how many F/A's have been laid off in the past 5 years?) B) Foreign F/A's from NW's overseas opperations (read: Japan). NW will keep flying. An F/A Chaos strike would mess them up, that's for sure, but they'd get over it, and at this point, they are in essence profitable, so it wouldn't topple them.

Quoting Krisair747 (Reply 3):
Thank God, some positive NW news. Next will be the European destinations with the 757!! MAN, DUB and SNN!!

Yep, DTW-DUB, DTW-SNN, and DTW-MAN are coming, via the PW2000 powered 757-200s!

And just you wait till the final A330s arrive, then the 787s. NW will have a foreign network to be envious of.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 5):

MEM-CZM stands out to me!

They are trying to use their southern feeder routes to channel through there and get into the Southeast-mexico routes, like AA runs out of MIA, DL out of ATL, and CO out of IAH. NW has a way of making routes from MEM work, MEM-AMS, for instance.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2971 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8894 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 5):
MEM-CZM stands out to me!

Same with me! But I really think that MEM is underutilized - it has so much potential as it's located perfectly for so many connections (both North/South and East/West).

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6038 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8668 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 9):
Same with me! But I really think that MEM is underutilized - it has so much potential as it's located perfectly for so many connections (both North/South and East/West).


Trouble with Memphis is very little O&D compared to MIA, IAH, DFW, ATL....all the traffic will also be US based....no one in those foreign locations wants to go weekend shopping in Memphis.

I had asked someone close to airport ops here in BZE if NW had shown any interest. He told me they had talked, but the NW prefered to operate that as a codeshare with CO despite a fair amount of MSP/DTW-IAH-BZE traffic



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineChugach From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8382 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 5):
If NW is filling this flight with FF members they are not going to make a dime on this route. But it will be nice to see ANC get this service.

I can take it and earn about 5,500 miles that count to my MVP Gold status on AS. Sounds good to me.  Big grin



GO ROCKETS
User currently offline757dc10fltmech From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7806 times:

I wonder how this will affect the (MSP) charter service out of the Humphrey Terminal?


CAN DO!
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1168 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7532 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):
If the F/A's strike, NW I'm sure by this point has the means, and will, put in place a plane to replace them with A) replacement workers (how many F/A's have been laid off in the past 5 years?) B) Foreign F/A's from NW's overseas opperations (read: Japan). NW will keep flying. An F/A Chaos strike would mess them up, that's for sure, but they'd get over it, and at this point, they are in essence profitable, so it wouldn't topple them.

Don't delude yourself. NW was able to replace the mechanics without a problem. The F/A's are another story. For one, they don't have enough Japanese F/A's to cover their entire operation, let alone their domestic operation. For two, I don't even believe that these folks would be permitted to work here in the U.S. without work visas, and do you think our government would give work visas to a bunch of Japanese folks when there are folks right here in our own country that could do this job? Finally, in regards to replacing them with laid off F/A's - there aren't as many as you might like to believe. Most laid off F/A's have either found employment with another carrier or have gotten smart and found a whole different field of work. There aren't scads of experienced F/A's out there that are willing to take scab jobs.


User currently offlineMichiganMAN From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7322 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):
DTW-MAN are coming,

so will I if it happens.



UK -> USA
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32602 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6915 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):
NW has a way of making routes from MEM work, MEM-AMS, for instance.

And they have a way of making them not work. Like MEM-MEX, MEM-MTY, and MEM-GCM, for instance.



a.
User currently onlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2689 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5785 times:

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 9):
Same with me! But I really think that MEM is underutilized - it has so much potential as it's located perfectly for so many connections (both North/South and East/West).

Well that is the problem with NW, Minneapolis and Detroit are also located nicely for east/west traffic. Three hubs in the middle of the country from smaller sized cities. I will never get the NW hub system, no wonder they aren't doing well.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6441 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5726 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 16):
I will never get the NW hub system, no wonder they aren't doing well.

Not doing well compared to who and what time period are you talking about?


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5603 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 13):

Don't delude yourself. NW was able to replace the mechanics without a problem. The F/A's are another story. For one, they don't have enough Japanese F/A's to cover their entire operation, let alone their domestic operation. For two, I don't even believe that these folks would be permitted to work here in the U.S. without work visas, and do you think our government would give work visas to a bunch of Japanese folks when there are folks right here in our own country that could do this job? Finally, in regards to replacing them with laid off F/A's - there aren't as many as you might like to believe. Most laid off F/A's have either found employment with another carrier or have gotten smart and found a whole different field of work. There aren't scads of experienced F/A's out there that are willing to take scab jobs.

Really. That last contract was narrowly rejected. You don't think A LOT of those union F/A's would cross the lines if it meant getting a paycheck vs. not? The foreign and management F/A's would be temporary, and I guarantee you there are already making provisions to contract out temporary F/A positions domestically until they can rehire enough of a work force. Would it be bumpy for a little bit? Yes. Absolutely. Would they get past it? Absolutely.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
And they have a way of making them not work. Like MEM-MEX, MEM-MTY, and MEM-GCM, for instance.

Every airline has routes they try and fail with.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 17):
Quoting United787 (Reply 16):
I will never get the NW hub system, no wonder they aren't doing well.

Not doing well compared to who and what time period are you talking about?

The whole MSP and DTW as hubs is a little strange, and they REALLY need west coast hub (SEA, please!!!), but they are doing pretty well as an airline. They are for all practical purposes, a profitable airline (before BK and restructuring charges), they have high load factors, they're cutting costs further, and expanding service. Really, there are airlines out there, even ones out of BK that aren't doing any better, if not worse, than NW. As extremely harsh as some of the things NW leadership has done during the period in BK, it's been effective at returning the airline to profitability.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9489 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5536 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 5):
If NW is filling this flight with FF members they are not going to make a dime on this route. But it will be nice to see ANC get this service.

Doesn't AS pay NW in compensation for letting people redeem frequent flyer benefits?



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6088 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5509 times:

Rose: To be honest, that is a better question for EA CO AS. I'm not familiar with those agreements not being in customer service.

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5497 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 18):
The whole MSP and DTW as hubs is a little strange

Not really. They started out and are still based in MSP. They bought Republic, formed from North Central and Southern, that had sizable ops in DTW and MEM. Voila. Current NW hub system.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1168 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5461 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 18):
Really. That last contract was narrowly rejected. You don't think A LOT of those union F/A's would cross the lines if it meant getting a paycheck vs. not? The foreign and management F/A's would be temporary, and I guarantee you there are already making provisions to contract out temporary F/A positions domestically until they can rehire enough of a work force. Would it be bumpy for a little bit? Yes. Absolutely. Would they get past it? Absolutely

Are you familiar with the concept of CHAOS? They wouldn't require every single F/A to walk off the job. The beauty of CHAOS is that the company never knows when/where or how it's going to come. CHAOS could mean that F/A's will strike flights at all odd numbered gates at DTW or all flights from SEA, or they could target all overseas flights, or they could target all 757 flights for an hour. How can the company protect themselves short of having a full crew for each aircraft available in each city? AFA wouldn't even need all the F/A's on a particular flight to bail to make that excercise succesful. If a full 747 going to Tokyo had two, or even three, F/A's decide not to honor a picket line, the company would still need to bring in enough F/A's to make it an FAA minimum crew - that takes time. Time means delays and delays cost money. CHAOS could go on and on and on and could change form every day. Each day could be something different. It would be very costly to staff the airline with enough F/A's to sit around and wait for something to happen on any given day. In addition to the training costs, there are the costs associated with paying these folks to be at your beck and call. The costs to deploy them to out stations and have them sitting their waiting. There is also the time it would take to train these folks. While the FAA may well allow NW to put furloughed certified F/A's from other carriers through an expedited training course, the biggest problem is that there aren't very many furloughed (if any) F/A's that are certified on the DC9, of which NWA has plenty. Further, there aren't very many furloughed F/A's from other airlines sitting around, desperate to go back to work for an airline. If they were that desperate they could have been hired by UA, CO, AS, US/HP and a huge number of regional carriers. The fact is that CHAOS would likely bring NWA to it's knees.

As far as NWA bringing in foriegn workers to work out of their domestic hubs working domestic flights - they can't do it. Plain and simple. They can no more bring in Japanese F/A's to fly from DTW to DFW then Wal-Mart can bring Mexican workers over the border to stock their stores in Iowa at night. Immigration laws wouldn't permit it.

[Edited 2006-08-10 00:21:13]

User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12214 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5417 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 22):
Are you familiar with the concept of CHAOS? They wouldn't require every single F/A to walk off the job. The beauty of CHAOS is that the company never knows when/where or how it's going to come. CHAOS could mean that F/A's will strike flights at all odd numbered gates at DTW or all flights from SEA, or they could target all overseas flights, or they could target all 757 flights for an hour. How can the company protect themselves short of having a full crew for each aircraft available in each city? AFA wouldn't even need all the F/A's on a particular flight to bail to make that excercise succesful. If a full 747 going to Tokyo had two, or even three, F/A's decide not to honor a picket line, the company would still need to bring in enough F/A's to make it an FAA minimum crew - that takes time. Time means delays and delays cost money. CHAOS could go on and on and on and could change form every day. Each day could be something different. It would be very costly to staff the airline with enough F/A's to sit around and wait for something to happen on any given day. In addition to the training costs, there are the costs associated with paying these folks to be at your beck and call. The costs to deploy them to out stations and have them sitting their waiting. There is also the time it would take to train these folks. While the FAA may well allow NW to put furloughed certified F/A's from other carriers through an expedited training course, the biggest problem is that there aren't very many furloughed (if any) F/A's that are certified on the DC9, of which NWA has plenty. Further, there aren't very many furloughed F/A's from other airlines sitting around, desperate to go back to work for an airline. If they were that desperate they could have been hired by UA, CO, AS, US/HP and a huge number of regional carriers. The fact is that CHAOS would likely bring NWA to it's knees.

Which is exactly why NW needs to get rid of all their F/As, rehire the ones that apply and start fresh.



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5270 times:

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 21):
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 18):
The whole MSP and DTW as hubs is a little strange

Not really. They started out and are still based in MSP. They bought Republic, formed from North Central and Southern, that had sizable ops in DTW and MEM. Voila. Current NW hub system.

Well, the fact they kept MSP and DTW both as hubs is wierd. Seeing as they are geographically not that far apart, it would make sense to consolidate them (even NW's current MSP and DTW opperations merged are as large as ORD).

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 22):
Are you familiar with the concept of CHAOS? They wouldn't require every single F/A to walk off the job. The beauty of CHAOS is that the company never knows when/where or how it's going to come. CHAOS could mean that F/A's will strike flights at all odd numbered gates at DTW or all flights from SEA, or they could target all overseas flights, or they could target all 757 flights for an hour. How can the company protect themselves short of having a full crew for each aircraft available in each city? AFA wouldn't even need all the F/A's on a particular flight to bail to make that excercise succesful. If a full 747 going to Tokyo had two, or even three, F/A's decide not to honor a picket line, the company would still need to bring in enough F/A's to make it an FAA minimum crew - that takes time. Time means delays and delays cost money. CHAOS could go on and on and on and could change form every day. Each day could be something different. It would be very costly to staff the airline with enough F/A's to sit around and wait for something to happen on any given day. In addition to the training costs, there are the costs associated with paying these folks to be at your beck and call. The costs to deploy them to out stations and have them sitting their waiting. There is also the time it would take to train these folks. While the FAA may well allow NW to put furloughed certified F/A's from other carriers through an expedited training course, the biggest problem is that there aren't very many furloughed (if any) F/A's that are certified on the DC9, of which NWA has plenty. Further, there aren't very many furloughed F/A's from other airlines sitting around, desperate to go back to work for an airline. If they were that desperate they could have been hired by UA, CO, AS, US/HP and a huge number of regional carriers. The fact is that CHAOS would likely bring NWA to it's knees.

Bring them to their knees huh? The machinists thought they'd bring NW to its knees.

How about the flight attendants at United and Alaska who used CHAOS. Neither UA or AS got brought to their knees by CHAOS. Would CHAOS mess things up for the airline? Yes, it would. Within a period of a few weeks, could the airline negate the effects of CHAOS. Yes. United did, Alaska did, and God knows, NW has been planning on doing it for a long time. As much as I hate to see it, and believe it, if the union calls CHAOS, I think NW will bring them to their knees. Also keep in mind that so far, Judge Gropper has been almost a rubber stamp for NW leadership. It's awful that it's reality, CHAOS will not topple NW. It just won't. They just selected a new union that brought them a tentative agreement they voted down. Great vote of confidence there.

And CHAOS. If you read the AFA website, it says to check into their CHAOS line frequently, to plan to stay at layover locations for up to 48 hours, and to have child and pet care lined up constantly, should you need to be away. It says also for the F/A's to have money (their own money) to cover hotel and food for these 48 hours, for any times they are aware from home when CHAOS is called. Awful demanding and life disrupting for the F/A's too, don't you think? It's a lot to ask. A novel idea, but perhaps not the most practical.

I used to think the F/A's had the power to bring down NW. The more I've seen out of there lately though, I don't think they can. I think the company is too well prepared. They'll cover their international flights entirely with overseas F/A's, freeing up the US based crews to cover domestic flights. Any holes there will be filled with management F/A's and fill ins from elsewhere. They'll cover the DC-9s with their crews, use the fill ins on the A320 and 757s. They can do it.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
25 TWFirst : Take a closer look at NWs feeder system into the the two airports... you'll understand why it DOESN'T make sense to combine them. If MSP wasn't worki
26 ASFlyer : Umm, actually, United never used CHAOS. Alaska did use CHAOS and they got the contract they were asking for as a result. AS management gave in. Unite
27 ANNOYEDFA : If you think that NWA is going to pull a bunch of guaps out of their back pocket you'll have a good laugh in the end. There is a big difference of clo
28 Post contains images TWFirst : Your posts are always good for a laugh. Yes, the MTA DID have some balls. You're obviously relying on the fact that KaiGwyer isn't from NYC and doesn
29 KaiGywer : Hmm...didn't graduate college? Considering I live in MN, it would be kinda hard. From the MN POST Board: · To become eligible for a Minnesota Peace
30 BHXDTW : Is NW still considering BHX ??? joe
31 Post contains images Sllevin : NW? Award availability? You must be joking! Honestly, Hawaii fares are always quite significant compared to other markets -- they do nothing but make
32 MalpensaSFO : Instead of increasing low yielding beach markets, why doesnt NWA management increase frequencies to LGA, DCA, BOS, LAX, or SFO? Will we ever see NWA
33 Jano : Yes, with the arrival of B787. There are 18 on order and 50 options. In fact NWA is the B787 North American launch customer.
34 MalpensaSFO : Wasnt there talk of the 787 order tanking considering the even larger loss margin this past period with NWA? How can NWA keep aircraft on order while
35 Supa7E7 : I think NW knows exactly where the money is. They don't need fanciful sorts of guesses from me or you. I guess you cheer for bank robbers too. They g
36 MalpensaSFO : Why was DTW-PEK cut? Considering that we now see AA, CO, UA daily to China nonstop from the United States..
37 Jano : Nope, that would not make sense. They need to survive next 4 -5 years so that the effects of 787 in the fleet were visible -> profit. If they cancel
38 Jano : What type of aircraft do they mostly fly to China? What type of aircraft NW does not have?
39 MalpensaSFO : The route was flown nonstop with a 747-400, there are plenty of 747-400 still in the fleet. For example they are now being used on HKG-NRT, NRT-LAX,
40 Bobnwa : Wrong, prove it!!
41 MalpensaSFO : Take a look in the desert! In addition please note that routes that once had the 744 such as JFK, AMS, BKK, PEK are now without the 747-400 equipment
42 Bobnwa : Again you did not give facts . NWA has not decreased greatly its number of 747-400's. Give me some numbers. They have 14 today. How many did they hav
43 Jano : Yet what aircraft changed the game in TPAC? Is putting the B744 aircraft on DTW-PEK the best allocation of resources? Nonsense. It's not difficult to
44 MalpensaSFO : If memory serves correct NWA at one point had in excess of 18 747-400's. Of course this may very well have been at the time that AMS-DEL, JFK-AMS, JF
45 Bobnwa : Youir memory does not serve you correct. Try another number!!!
46 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : Please inform as to what that number was.. Since I am incorrect..
47 Bobnwa : I believe the most they owned was 14 and they still own 14. Could be off by 1 or 2 but those are my numbers.
48 Continental : Well, if an airline had 2 777s and got rid of one, they'd be losing 50% of their 777 fleet!
49 Post contains links MalpensaSFO : Lets agree on 16. Since the link below says 16. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Airlines However, you are correct in saying that the current f
50 Burnsie28 : I don't get why everyone has a problem finding an award ticket, for all my flights ive found some sort of award ticket possible, doesn't always mean
51 Fedexexpress : any new service coming to IND BURNSIE28???????????
52 AA767400 : The problem is that the less you pay, the less you can expect from someone. Paying less means less service from the employee. Many work groups have b
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