BDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 15 Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2318 times:
Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 1): flying into an airport like MAD goes against everything that FR stand for!
Perhaps, but the long-standing relationship between FR and AENA may have produced some rewards to the benefit of both. It may go against the grain to a certain extent, but business is businnes and if the terms are favourable to the mutial benefit of both parties, then there's no reason why the business plan cannot be adapted to consider those new conditions. Just a thought.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
JWMD123 From Ireland, joined May 2006, 867 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2244 times:
I wonder what deal on charges etc FR has done with MAD?
Also, FR seem to be seriously expanding their DUB operations. I think this is in anticipation of the new pier D extension next year and also FR will be given the new check-in area in the basement floor in DUB all to themselves.
a few of these routes might hurt EI. Hopefully not. It would be great to see the two of them in compeition
217 km is very distant to serve MAD as well. For a secondary airport with a low cost operation to serve a main city the maximum distance they look at is around 100 km.
Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 3): Are enough demmand to fly from MAD to DUB when IB leave its evening flight??? Who is the person that plans new routes in FR??
IB and FR have a different product at a different fare, so the markets are different. What may not work for IB can perfectly work for FR.
And it's proven that FR knows what they are doing when it comes to new routes, it's one of the bases of their success. With subsidies / discounts or not that's all part of the business and if they can do it good for them. That's also part of researching and evaluating new routes.
That's far, and what are the roads like (I know Spain well having lived in Madrid for 10 years, but have never been to Valladolid)... by train I see it's a travel time of 2 to 3 hours.
Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 3): Are enough demmand to fly from MAD to DUB when IB leave its evening flight???
What are you talking about? Iberia fly daily as they have for many years from MAD to DUB, departing MAD in the morning direct to DUB, then that flight does a DUB-BCN-DUB rotation and returns to MAD in the evening. So IB haven't left nor are they leaving the route. Also keep in mind IB operate 320's, not smaller aircraft from MAD to DUB, in summer EI operate daily DUB-MAD-DUB with 321's and this winter will operate 10 weekly flights with 320's (EI's 320's are max capacity, around 180 pax). Spanair also operate direct MAD-DUB, albeit just 2/Weekly in summer. Yes there is a lot of demand on this route. Spain is the number 1 holiday destination for the Irish, with nearly 100.000 Irish people "owning" holiday properties in Spain, not bad for such a small country, busines and cultural links between Spain and Ireland are strong, Ireland's Embassy in Madrid is one of it's most important, showing the strong links, the Irish population in Madrid is big (about 7 years ago on St. Patrick's Day TeleMadrid said that after the French and Germans the Irish were the 3rd largest permanent foreign population in Madrid from another EU state, and Ireland is overrun with Spaniards living and working there. Wow, vaya rollo mas largo te he soltado alli! Just to show you, yes there is a market.
BCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 18 Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2064 times:
Quoting Cwldude (Reply 6): Im still baffled as to why they don't fly to the Balearics and the Canaries?
There are already enough airlines flying to the Balearics. FR's entry might over-saturate the market, so perhaps they wisely plan their expansion on other routes that are likely to be more successful.
As regards the Canaries, at present DUB-LPA or TFS might just be beyond the endurance length for the LCCs, and FR would not be able to get many rotations on this route. However, times and habits are changing and there are rumours circulating that FR are negotiating terms for Tenerife North.
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Cwldude From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 691 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1905 times:
Quoting BCAL (Reply 11): As regards the Canaries, at present DUB-LPA or TFS might just be beyond the endurance length for the LCCs, and FR would not be able to get many rotations on this route.
I wasn't particularly on about DUB, but yer that would work too... The Canaries aren't that far off Marrakech so Im sure they could stretch to the extra 40-50 mins. They'd probably get full loads with flights from Spain, Ireland & Germany to LPA, there's more Irish & German people over there than there are Spanish!
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LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1898 times:
Quoting Tiago701 (Reply 8): FR already flies to some main airports (and some of them quite busy with high passenger traffic and aircraft movements augmenting their possibilities of delays) as LGW, DUB, OPO, EDI, MAN.
Doesn't FR even fly every now and then to LHR (at least for diversions)?
Skyone From Mexico, joined Feb 2001, 415 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1805 times:
Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 1): Suprising - flying into an airport like MAD goes against everything that FR stand for! Could we be seeing a change in strategy here? Or is it simply because MAD has no low-cost alternatives?
That is what happens when you have an airport at 50% capacity. Aena has to give great rates to FR in order to keep growing and increase the number of airlines that fly into MAD. Excelent decision from FR and that is just a start. Aena having tons of free slots and gates thanks to great expansion will be realy happy to take each and every new flight from FR. Although they have to be careful not to piss off any other airline, becuase if they are giving subsidies to FR and the others find out, problems can arise. Although I doubt it a lot. FR will test MAD with DUB and then, once operating from MAD, it will be all good news as I smell FR all over spain working with MAD as a new hub (big big big airport not being used at even half capacity) as they will take any day Terminal 1, 2 or 3 and not say a word about how old and ugly it looks compared to T4 as Air Europa and Spanair have said. My home airport is MAD and this is the greatest news someone could have given me. Thanks FR, you rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 3): I cannot understand why Ryanair puts flights from MAD when they operate from VLL daily. VLL is 217 KMS from MAD.
Are enough demmand to fly from MAD to DUB when IB leave its evening flight??? Who is the person that plans new routes in FR??
Because they have tons of 737 pending delivery and they need to increase business. Then, as I stated before, when you have the worlds pretiest terminal T4 (yes, you can argue this one, but I realy love the structure of T4) and T1, T2 and T3 almost empty (that is the fealing after IB and Oneworld left), then you need to secure contracts and FR needs big big cities that can justify many flights a day. Believe me, FR is just starting and boy people will fill their planes if they bring ultra low fares. So, incredibly done by the people at FR, as they keep going with their strategy.
Quoting JWMD123 (Reply 4): I wonder what deal on charges etc FR has done with MAD?
Me too. I think they did not get an ultra low deal, as the one they got in northern Spain (Aena also controls those airports) but to have taken away the deal of Don Quijote International (Ciudad Real conected by the high speed Ave train to Madrid) and closed a deal with MAD, that means they got a good deal. Hope we get to know more about it as we did with the flight to Galicia.
Quoting Toulouse (Reply 10): EI operate daily DUB-MAD-DUB with 321's and this winter will operate 10 weekly flights with 320's
Add to that the flights to DUB from IB
This is exactly why CatAir (clickair) is being created. The managing directors of Iberia are also aware of this and will go against LOCOs with an outside airline and not a LOCO like Mexicana´s Click, Delta´s Song, British Airways Go or United´s Ted. They will go a la LH way (which has been demostrated it is the only way to go). EI has to be thinking problems also.
That was the first thing I mentioned in my post. And JK also fly twice weekly in summer.
Anyway, you have a very good point in you post which I hadn't thought of, after the openning of T4 MAD is certainly working well below capacity. SinceT4 openned I've only been at T1, T4 and T4S, (so can't compare T2 and T3) but you're right, T1 is empty, and even T4 when I've been there always seems quite empty. So yes, AENA can now attract many new airlines unlike before.
RAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 22 hours ago) and read 1679 times:
Quoting Toulouse (Reply 10): Yes there is a lot of demand on this route. Spain is the number 1 holiday destination for the Irish, with nearly 100.000 Irish people "owning" holiday properties in Spain, not bad for such a small country, busines and cultural links between Spain and Ireland are strong, Ireland's Embassy in Madrid is one of it's most important, showing the strong links, the Irish population in Madrid is big (about 7 years ago on St. Patrick's Day TeleMadrid said that after the French and Germans the Irish were the 3rd largest permanent foreign population in Madrid from another EU state, and Ireland is overrun with Spaniards living and working there. Wow, vaya rollo mas largo te he soltado alli! Just to show you, yes there is a market.
Ok, Ok, OK. Understood.
I know Spain is the main destinations for all Irish people. I know, too, that Irish people prefers to buy villages in Malaga, Granada, Almeria or even Huelva. The Balearic and Canary Islands have more demand.
And the 3rd largest permanent foreign population... I know you are a lot and I'm very happy to keep relationship with Irish People but Telemadrid was wrong.
Vaya rollo te he soltado yo ahora!!! Ja, ja, ja!!!
Pues ya estamos en paz!
Anyway, I stated in the post if you read correctly that that info provided by TeleMadrid was for the permanent foreign EU population IN Madrid, as far as I know South American countries aren't EU members. Anyway, I found it a bit hard to believe.
But, I'm still curious to know where you got the idea that IB had dropped the DUB-MAD service?
Also intersting, Clickair will fly to DUB from BCN, yet when I look at flights from BCN to DUB on iberia.com for next winter after Clickair goes into service, the standard IB MAD-DUB-BCN-DUB-MAD service still appears.
And for your info. Malaga is the first destination of Irish tourist followed by Alicante, not the islands.