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New 100-130 Seat Large Regional Jet Design  
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 45366 times:

To fill the need for super efficient short range operations, a 100-130 seat Large Regional Jet (LRJ) was developed. In recent years Bombardier backed out, Dornier went broke. Embraer 190/195 series and Large CRJ 's seems to go well at this moment, but don’t offer aircraft over ~ 100 seats. The Boeing 737-600, 717 and A318 are basically 10.000 kg overweight for short haul operations.

In the meantime fuel prices go sky high and F100’s & BAE146s are running out of life.

The LRJ could be produced by a transatlantic JV between Boeing, Dassault and a range of specialist OEM’s. A shorter max 100 seats and longer max 130 seats variant are offered.

http://www.kaktusdigital.com/images/large/klm_lrj_02.jpg
(Picture by Henry Lam http://www.kaktusdigital.com/3d.html for all your customized visualizations)

Engines
2 Engine options are available. The one pictured above has 2 x 62 kN high bypass PW9000 Geared Turbo Fan (GTF) engines, optimized for low noise, low SFC at a cruising speed of around 750 km/hr. For the LRJ a new balance is found between speed and low fuel consumption / environmental impact during short haul operations. New materials enable introduction of light complicated fans and large fan cowlings.

The engine / wing / tail configuration further minimizes downward noise exposure. The wing and horizontal stabilizer shield off much of the fan & exhaust noise during airfield operations in populated areas.

Fuselage / Cabin
The cockpit section, fuselage diameter and various subsystems (e.g. Goodrich landing gear) are inherited from the Dornier 728 RJ family http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0777125/L/ to save development costs & time. The length of the aircraft is 37 meters.

The cabin is optimized for a comfortable 4/5 abreast seating with sufficient luggage space for everyone to facilitate the increasing need of passengers to take luggage with them in the cabin on short trips.


The Honeywell/Thales side-stick cockpit looks very much like a standard Airbus cockpit to ease training/ transfer.

Wings
The wing design of the LRJ is almost entirely made of composites and has a very high aspect ratio wing optimized for low landing speeds, excellent take-off performance and aerodynamic efficiency. Wing span is 33 meters, a few feet short of the A318/B736 wing span.

Performance
The wing, fuselage and engine design of the LRJ are optimized for flying regional services at minimum fuel consumption. The design is optimized for a 750km/hr cruising speed, maximum range is 3700km / 2000nm covering most regional needs. Figure below: 2000nm ranges from Düsseldorf, Atlanta and Hong Kong.
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?RAN...S&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=red

The new LRJ design could provide airlines with a super efficient alternative, operating at unmatched fuel efficiency and noise levels in the 100-130 seat regional segment. Operating costs per seat are expected to be 25% lower then comparable NB aircraft and 10-15% lower then comparable RJ's.

Sources
http://ec.europa.eu/research/aeronautics/projects/images/43_2.jpg
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...y/2002973147_boeingconcepts05.html
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0777125/L/
http://money.cnn.com/services/ticker...181107PR_NEWS_USPR_____NETU021.htm

[Edited 2006-08-09 15:03:44]

95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAdria From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 45308 times:

It sounds interesting. Well Adria is sure a candidate for those aircraft, unless they go for a CRJ 900 or the A318/319.

User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 45245 times:

Sounds very interesting indeed. If someone like Lockheed or Northrup were smart, they would develop this aircraft with Boeing or Airbus to diversify the dependance on military aircraft.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 45144 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 2):
Sounds very interesting indeed. If someone like Lockheed or Northrup were smart, they would develop this aircraft with Boeing or Airbus to diversify the dependance on military aircraft.

Lockheed is out of the commercial airplane business, Northrup might do something with Airbus, but I'm not sure what incentive Airbus has to take them on as a partner. I think the thread starter's suggestion of Boeing and Dassault sounds interesting - if it could be made to work, it could be a phenomenal alliance, and it's an outstanding aircraft.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineJaws707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 708 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 45106 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
Northrup might do something with Airbus, but I'm not sure what incentive Airbus has to take them on as a partner.

What you are referring to is the Northrop and Airbus will be working together on the KC-30 (modified A330) aircraft that is being bid to replace to refueling aircraft in the US Air Force inventory. The incentive Airbus has is that without Northrop they pretty much have no chance of getting the contract. Right now it would be split about 50/50 with Airbus providing Northrop an A330 and then Northrop outfitting it with the military electronics to make it work for the Air Force.


User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 45067 times:

If Boeing doesn't do it, Embraer will.

I can see something like this being built:



THe A380 may be the Whale, well I call this the Hog (since it looks so much like an A-10)

[Edited 2006-08-09 16:15:00]

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 44869 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
Boeing and Dassault sounds interesting - if it could be made to work

There are no indications suggesting RJ cooperation between Boeing and Dassault. However Dassault is closely involved in Boeing 787 design / integration. http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/q1/nr_040212g.html

I think many design studies today point towards tail mounted engines. Advantages of this configuration being clean wing design, wing fuel capasity, shorter / light landing gear configurations and long term design flexibility.



One of the disadvantages (hard to reach the engine for inspection/repair) has become less relevant because engines have become extreme reliable and sensors monitor more parameters then ever before.

[Edited 2006-08-09 17:27:51]

User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 44810 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
think many design studies today point towards tail mounted engines. Advantages of this configuration being clean wing design, wing fuel capasity, shorter / light landing gear configurations and long term design flexibility.

I agree and the most interesting thing is that these are not your standard T-tailed aircraft. They have tail mounted engines, yet they are using new tail configurations. We may see something like Beaker with your standard T-Tail, but I could see something like the "Hog" like aircraft shown above happening as well, as it is not a completely new configuration.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 44810 times:
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A GTF engine, rearward mounted with a wide twin-tail like Henry Lam's design, might very well provide excellent noise reduction properties which would allow such planes to fly earlier and later at many airports. This could improve feed into and out of the hubs, helping make them more efficient by allowing flight blocks to be a bit more spread-out and reducing the capacity strain/traffic jams.

Not sure if either Boeing or Airbus want to play this low, since it would involve a design probably seperate from their 737RS/A320RS programs due to weight - unless CFRP really gets the weight down.

Embraer would be a natural choice for this type of plane, since it would be an extension of their EMB-135/EMB-145 programs (though scaled way up).


User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 44773 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
Not sure if either Boeing or Airbus want to play this low, since it would involve a design probably seperate from their 737RS/A320RS programs due to weight - unless CFRP really gets the weight down.

However the aircraft in this image appears to be a bit longer than Lam's design: http://ec.europa.eu/research/aeronautics/projects/images/43_2.jpg

Boeing could make an aircraft that uses this configuration that could fill the 717 to 757 market.

Lam's design could be a shorter -100 variant. This aircraft could be stretched into longer versions, like Boeing did with the 737-900. Boeing could make an aircraft sized around an MD-80 out of this.

[Edited 2006-08-09 17:49:15]

[Edited 2006-08-09 17:50:00]

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 44671 times:
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Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 9):
However the aircraft in this image appears to be a bit longer than Lam's design...Boeing could make an aircraft that uses this configuration that could fill the 717 to 757 market.

So this could be the 737RS/797? Intriguing...

I wonder if they could make engines powerful enough to meet 225 seats whilst mounted in the rear? And I wonder what noise issues (both external and internal to the cabin) such powerful engines would raise?


User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 44594 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
So this could be the 737RS/797? Intriguing...

While the one image comes from a European study, when you look at the Boeing Green Studies, this deisgn does have a chance. You could have a shorter 100 seat variant (-100) which replaces 717, ERJ-195. The -200 would seat around 150 which would replace the 737-500, 737-700, and the MD-80. The -300 would seat around 200 and replace the 737-800, 737-900, and 757-200.


User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 44594 times:

The configuration in the picture in the OP has little chance.

To start, the engines are almost completely blanketing the horizontal tail.

Second, fuselage mounted engines create a lot of bending moment on the wings for short haul (i.e. low fuel in the wings) planes of more than about 70 passengers. That causes the structure of the wing box to be too heavy. There is a reason, you know, why Embraer went through considerable expense to move the engines from the tail to the wings when they went from 50 to 70+ passangers.

Third, the E195, a very recent and efficient design, already is configured with up to 118 seats and is in the middle of the seat range you propose.

Fourth, I'm doubtful that any airline is going to buy a plane with a seat range of only 100-130 with no family comonality either below or above that range.

If any other OEM wants to seriously enter the market, they need to develop a family of aircraft in the 100-200 seat range.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6360 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 44414 times:

Since no one has mentioned it, the Japanese have not yet given up complete hope on their 100+ seat jet dreams... KHI presented the YPX 110-130 seat concept at Farnborough (they had a large model at their stand). KHI is currently undertaking a feasibility study to launch the project. The YPX is based on the P-X (80 have been ordered to replace the JDA's P-3Cs) and the C-X (40 have been ordered are to replace JDA's Kawasaki C-1s).


Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 43880 times:

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 12):
The configuration in the picture in the OP has little chance.

To start, the engines are almost completely blanketing the horizontal tail.

That is just an artists take on the idea. For one I don't think the horizontal tail will be angled upwards like that if this thing were to be built.

I expect something more like this:

http://ec.europa.eu/research/aeronautics/projects/images/43_2.jpg

This tail configuration is much closer to that of the A-10. Whether you can transfer a configuraiton that is used on a tank buster to a commercial aircraft remains to be seen. I can see that tail configuration as something more likely when compared to the "Pi-Tail" in the Fozzie concept.


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 43493 times:

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 4):
What you are referring to is the Northrop and Airbus will be working together on the KC-30 (modified A330) aircraft that is being bid to replace to refueling aircraft in the US Air Force inventory. The incentive Airbus has is that without Northrop they pretty much have no chance of getting the contract. Right now it would be split about 50/50 with Airbus providing Northrop an A330 and then Northrop outfitting it with the military electronics to make it work for the Air Force.

Well, what you say is exactly right, but the point i was making is that Northrup, already having some form of relationship with Airbus would be more likely to partner with them.

I think Airbus and Boeing would be open minded to participating in such a thing, given the poor sales of the A318/736, as well as a means to extend down into the larger regional jet range.

Then again, Boeing did drop the 717, which was an economical aircraft in this range, so go figure.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 43408 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 15):
Then again, Boeing did drop the 717, which was an economical aircraft in this range, so go figure.

Well they only did that because the 717 could have hurt the 737NG. If they kept the 717 they were going to have to develop the -300, as several airlines were interested. The -300 would have competed directly with the 737.

I am a fan of the 717 but from Boeing's viewpoint I do not blame them for ending production.

I'm pretty sure that we will be seeing tail-mounted aircraft once again. All of the recent studies dealing with smaller narrowbodies have pointed to some form of tail-mounted design.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9263 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 42770 times:

It would be neat if they'd develop another tri-jet with a T-tail, but it's not going to happen unfortunately. The days of the 727s have come and gone...

Even if this product is developed into some kind of T-tail concept, it would be sweet; there seems to be fewer and fewer T-tails flying nowadays with the popularity of 737, A318/319/320, and E190 aircraft anymore. The 717 is done, and not coming back to the assembly line, and I looove T-tails!!! Sad

[Edited 2006-08-09 23:43:45]


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 42743 times:

Isn't the aircraft you want being built as the SuperJet 1000 (nee Russian Regional Jet) by Sukhoi and Boeing (current diplomatic spat over weapons supplies notwithstanding)?

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9263 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 42658 times:

Quoting Afay1 (Reply 18):
Isn't the aircraft you want being built as the SuperJet 1000 (nee Russian Regional Jet) by Sukhoi and Boeing (current diplomatic spat over weapons supplies notwithstanding)?

Isn't that the bird that looks like the 21st century version of the DC9? Then I guess it is... Would I love to see US Airlines purchase some of those...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineOrdryan28 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 988 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 42629 times:

that's one neat looking RJ. almost looks like something from space...


Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 42115 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 19):
Isn't that the bird that looks like the 21st century version of the DC9? Then I guess it is... Would I love to see US Airlines purchase some of those...

No, that was the Tupolev 334, which has essentially been killed-off. The RRJ or its ridiculous new name looks a lot like a baby 737....


User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 41765 times:

Quoting Afay1 (Reply 21):
No, that was the Tupolev 334, which has essentially been killed-off. The RRJ or its ridiculous new name looks a lot like a baby 737....

Too bad the Tupolev got axed, very interesting looking.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 17):
It would be neat if they'd develop another tri-jet with a T-tail, but it's not going to happen unfortunately. The days of the 727s have come and gone...

Large T-Tailed Tri-Jets may be gone, but Tri-Jets still exist:

Dassault Falcon 7X

http://www.futura-sciences.com/commu...er/g/data/567/bourget_falcon7X.jpg

Too bad we can't have a stretched RJ version.  Smile


User currently offlineDfwrevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 997 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 41626 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 3):
I think the thread starter's suggestion of Boeing and Dassault sounds interesting - if it could be made to work, it could be a phenomenal alliance, and it's an outstanding aircraft.

Boeing and Dassault already work quite closely, Dassault has been a contractor for both the 777 and 787.

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 13):
The YPX is based on the P-X (80 have been ordered to replace the JDA's P-3Cs) and the C-X (40 have been ordered are to replace JDA's Kawasaki C-1s).

Are any of these proposals twin-jets or do they retain the quad-configuration of the P-X? I can't imagine many opperators willing to go back to short-haul quads unless they are opperating a very narrow niche of opperations that require it... (i.e. STOL)


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9263 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 41362 times:

Quoting Afay1 (Reply 21):
No, that was the Tupolev 334, which has essentially been killed-off.

Damn... Damn... Damn...

Mark my words, your uppance will come!  point 



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
25 Planemaker : The P-X and C-X are both twin turbo fan powered and the possible YPX is based more on the P-X (low wing) than the C-X which has a high wing configura
26 M404 : One obstacle currently in the way of this "regional jet" if used as the term is in the U.S. is the pilots scope agreements. My own carrier just renego
27 Post contains links and images Keesje : Pratt is pushing its GTF engine to Boeing. Long years of R&D have to start bringing in ROI> The gearbox allows the Turbine & Fan to run at more optim
28 Post contains images Diamond : I'm no engineer. But wouldn't the thrust blowing right over the top of the horizontal stabilizers generate the same type of lift used in the STOL airc
29 Post contains images Keesje : True, the horizontal tail has to be out of the engine slip stream. This it the case, in the drawing however the angle of view might be misleading Whe
30 KSUpilot : Looks like they are getting geared up for the 737RS. I wonder what GE will bring to the table. Do you think the 737RS will have several engine option
31 Planemaker : While not as efficient as the gearbox, that is why almost all RR turbofans have a 3 shaft arrangement versus 2 (in GE and P&W engines) as the fan and
32 Stitch : If one engine family shows a marked efficiency over it's peers, then I imagine it will be a one-horse race. If the spread if much closer, then it's p
33 Post contains images KSUpilot : I could see Dassault working with Boeing on the 737-RS as they did on the 787. After, I could see Boeing working with Dassault on a small to large re
34 DEVILFISH : This might be a stupid question, but would a combination of GTF and GEnx technology as being proposed for the A350XWB work more efficiently at lower
35 Post contains links Planemaker : Huh??? Other than the design software, which is used by a variety of manufacturers, Dassault didn't do any work on the 787... http://www.boeing.com/n
36 Post contains links Dfwrevolution : FI ran an article recently hinting that RR may offer a 3-spool engine in the 20-30,000 lbf range for narrowbody application. Given that IAE partner P
37 PPVRA : Don't forget that Dassault is a partner of Embraer, together with EADS and Snecma. . . and don't forget either that the market for the C-Series (simil
38 Post contains images Lehpron : Knowledge of QSP integrated with a second generation design of Alliance probably...
39 Gregtx : Actually, EADS holds 18.4% of voting control of Embraer---although only 5.7% of actual shares (along with Dassault and Snecma who have 5.7% shares as
40 Post contains links and images Dfwrevolution : Ah, I see. The only picture of the P-X I've seen is this one below. I suppose it's out of date: http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...maritime-patro
41 Post contains links DEVILFISH : As stated in the linked article, all the technology would be ready by 2008, and that the GTF was "only a year away from ground test and two years awa
42 KSUpilot : Yeah it is more wishful thinking than anything.
43 Planemaker : Actually, Embraer restructured in February of this year into "New Embraer". Embraer was recreated with only common shares and the issuance of preferr
44 WingedMigrator : No kidding... talk about different design drivers! The A-10 is basically a large gun with a few accessories to make it fly. Is anybody out there cons
45 Post contains images Thegooddoctor : Since when do they call 100-130 seats a "Regional Jet"? ....I thought they called aircraft of that size DC-9s
46 Dfwrevolution : But do you really expect that the thrust requirements will be adaquet for the A350 and Airbus will be willing to swollow that risk with so much ridin
47 DEVILFISH : Please note that in Reply 34 I specifically asked if GTF/GEnx technology could "work more efficiently at lower thrust requirements" in connection wit
48 KSUpilot : That is why they say that is is the plane built around a gun. Hey I can't argue with the results, I know I wouldn't want to be on the recieving end.
49 Keesje : It's not like this type of tail has never been tried before, the An225 & HE162 have similar tail constructions. The HE162 to avoid jet blast (like abo
50 KSUpilot : That is why I think this configuration has a shot in hell of being used, especially when compared to something like the Pi-Tail which has never been
51 RayChuang : What I find interesting is that this idea may have a surprising HUGE market for these reasons: 1. The plane will be very fuel efficient, something eve
52 Planemaker : It looks like perhaps not any more...
53 Post contains links Keesje : Not so long ago is was published Boeing was considering breaking it´s 737 Replacement Study (737RS) into two main categories. One around 100 seats an
54 KSUpilot : I think they could do it. Let's comapre our Paper 737-RS to the DC-9 family: The smallest variant of the DC-9, the DC-9-10 had a capacity for 80. The
55 Baron95 : True enough, but the question is "Is it sub-optimal enough to negate the economic advantages of manufacturing and operating a single family?" What is
56 Planemaker : FYI, Air Canada, with a A319/A320/A321 fleet, thought otherwise.
57 Baron95 : Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't AC also taking delivery of E170s? So in effect they are ordering a new family in the 70-110 seat range. That is m
58 Planemaker : Simple answer - when AC chose the E190 they only wanted the E190 and were only getting the E190. However... due to pilot union politics, Air Canada w
59 KSUpilot : I agree. The goal of Boeing's Yellowstone Project is to decrease the number of aircraft in the Boeing family. They found that hte best way to compete
60 Gregtx : Thanks for the update. It does not, however, change the reality of them entering into the 'above 120' market. Just won't happen.
61 Baron95 : I don't know about that. Seing how fast Embraer moved from EMBs to RJs to Ejets - all necessitating a totally new architecture/design/configuration,
62 Planemaker : I was not in any way suggesting that they were going to move upmarket but merely pointing out that EADS cannot stop them from doing so as you had tho
63 Post contains images Fleet Service : I belive Boeing called it the 717...
64 Post contains links and images Keesje : Operating empty weight Boeing B736: 37,104kg (81,800lb), Operating empty weight Airbus A318: 38,375kg (84,600lb) Operating empty weight Boeing B717:
65 Stitch : Also, one needs to take into account the operating efficiencies of larger fleets. I imagine 30 E-190s "tailor-made" for their mission profile is more
66 Fleet Service : When you start talking about 130 seat aircraft you are getting into the mainline category and you start running into Scope restrictions. Mesa is opera
67 KSUpilot : Exactly...there used to be aircraft that filled the gap between the ERJ-135/145 and something like a 737-800. The 717 was going to fill this gap but
68 Planemaker : What is a CRJ700? Don't blame AMR, they were restricted on the number of CRJ700s AE could fly. And I am sure that they would have gotten the CRJ900 i
69 Post contains images CRJ900 : Perhaps this marks the end of all the threads on a.net where people complain about lack of overhead bin space on the CRJs... if you can only bring yo
70 Fleet Service : And that fear will keep them on the sidelines watching Embraer and to a lesser extent Bombardier dominate the 'Large Regional Jet' market.
71 KSUpilot : Not if they enter the LRJ market with a small variant of the 737 Replacement. It isn't much, all you need is an aircraft about the size of a DC-9. Th
72 Keesje : If you develop an base aircraft that can be used for 100 up to 220 seats you basicly end up with a B737/A320 like family. If the OEM would put all 78
73 Planemaker : That is assuming, more or less, the technological status quo. However, by the time a new narrowbody program is launched, tech innovation and refineme
74 Post contains images ThePRGuy : That is one cool looking plane, I'd love to see something like that materialise
75 CruzinAltitude : Can I just say that that is one SEXY looking aircraft. If that hit the skies. . . I would have a new favorite aircraft (sorry good old 747)!
76 Post contains images PPVRA : Found the Front View of the aircraft for you guys: Sorry, couldn't resist. . . Cheers [Edited 2006-08-14 20:08:21]
77 Post contains images Vatveng : I can hear some disgruntled passenger yelling at the CSA already... "Just what kind of Mickey Mouse operation are you running here?!?"
78 KSUpilot : I'm going to have to start calling this design "Mickey"!
79 Post contains images Steeler83 : Oh micky you're so fine! You're so fine you blow my mind! Hey mick--- ohh dammit! Now look what you made me do!!!
80 KSUpilot : Well I guess we found the song that will be playing during the roll out ceremony. If Boeing does go forward with a LRJ variant of the 737-RS, what co
81 Tangowhisky : Boeing is not interested in fuselage mounted engines for many of the reasons given on this thread. Other reasons include additional fuselage length t
82 CruzinAltitude : Talk about a kill joy! Don't you dare take this dream from me!
83 787engineer : Well the 787's engines are bleedless and if succesful (and right now there's no indication that it wouldn't be) the 737RS engines will also be bleedl
84 Scintx : Based on the Thread title, wasn't this aircraft the 717? I avoid booking flights that have our current RJ's. Give me a 717 and you got my business. I
85 Tangowhisky : I assume that on a large plane such as the 787, the tradeoff of convential thermal energy produced from the compressors for leading edge deicing is m
86 Post contains images Rheinbote : Don't hold your breath. - With those awfully large=heavy engines at the back the wing is too far forward -> CG is wrong, put the wings back and you r
87 Steeler83 : Personally I like the T-tailed config... After seeing the production of the 717 end, along with the 727 (my favorite T-tailed aircraft) I am beginnin
88 Post contains images 787engineer : A bleedless engine is more efficient by itself, since you're not drawing any air from the engine after the compressor. This allows more air through t
89 Post contains images KSUpilot : I'm thinking if we are going to see a design that uses this configuration we are going to see an aircraft that looks something more like that. Say if
90 Rheinbote : I don't see any reason for Boeing to dispense with under-wing engines except a) there's a switch to propfans or b) future noise regulations force the
91 MotorHussy : Not to mention those really annoying high-pitched engines that keep sounding like they're saying "Down Pluto!"
92 KSUpilot : I agree. I believe there is a small chance we will see something different (like your standard T-Tail or Mickey) for the reasons you stated. If the 7
93 Post contains links and images Keesje : Has been certified many times before. Never heard of that one. The fuselage would probably desintegrate long before that. http://video.google.com/vid
94 Post contains images Rheinbote : Take a close look at biz aircraft with tail-mounted engines. Ever noticed how long the plyons are? In most cases longer than the nacelle. In order to
95 Post contains images KSUpilot : Looking at that study, I feel that the best design would be a combination of the Beaker and Fozzie concepts. For one the fold-up wings would have to
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