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Why No UA 757-200 Ops Across The Atlantic?  
User currently offlineDptMAN From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 207 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7125 times:

Considering AA,CO and soon NW will be operating their B757 aircraft accross the Atlantic to Europe. So why no UA 757-200 services, with their Premium Services i bet UA could make this work if they wished. Could UA make 757 ops across the Atlantic or wouldnt it suit their stratigies?
Thoughts

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20685 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7125 times:

Quoting DptMAN (Thread starter):
Thoughts

Which routes do you think would work for them?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8677 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7115 times:

If they restarted JFK-LHR, a 757 would be good for this route.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineDptMAN From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7115 times:

Possibly IAD-DUB/SNN/MAN also, do UA have a base in BOS? If so possibly BOS-MAN after AA drop the route in the winter. With the sucess of the BD service (obviously not the 757 leased from Icelandic) although BDs A330 service was popular. If UA use their Premium service on routes with their 757s accross the Atlantic eg. offer PTVs not currently covered by AA and CO. They could lead in 757 Atlantic ops.

User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3768 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7088 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 2):
If they restarted JFK-LHR, a 757 would be good for this route.

I agree, also IAD-MAN would be great, in codeshare with BD  Smile

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9661 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7064 times:

It is interesting to see the thought of using PS configured 757s across the Atlantic. It would almost be like the Privatair 737 flights. The problem with the PS planes though is that the first class on those is comparable to business class on most transatlantic airlines.

Maybe there are some routes where this could work though. I am in particular thinking of Germany. Low yielding destinations in the UK don't make sense at all. There are some smaller cities in Germany that might be able to support a 757 from United. I can think that maybe Geneva, Hamburg, Stuttgart or Dusseldorf could work. These cities don't have much transatlantic service. However UA doesn't seem to be the type of airline to offer service like that.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20685 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7064 times:

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 3):
Possibly IAD-DUB/SNN/MAN

I believe for those routes that a p.s.-configured 757 would be far too low of a density to make them worthwhile.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32898 posts, RR: 71
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7052 times:

Quoting DptMAN (Thread starter):
Considering AA,CO and soon NW will be operating their B757 aircraft accross the Atlantic to Europe.

AA hasn't had much successs with trans-Atlantic 757s. Both routes are ending this year. The problem wasn't that the flights didn't make money, but that they had no premium seats to sell. CO fits their trans-Atlantic 757s in a proper international configuration. Jury is still out on US Airways, since their 757 service to Europe is still very new.



a.
User currently offlinePanaman From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7020 times:

Since everyone else does it, why does UA have to? They have plenty of other things todo besides listening to a.net plan its flights.


Sorry I moved from SXM, looking for a new house on Anguilla now!
User currently offlineDptMAN From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7007 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
AA hasn't had much successs with trans-Atlantic 757s. Both routes are ending this year.

Fair point, however i was only highlighting current B757 Atlantic Ops. What if UA configured some 757s simular to that of CO however with better IFE eg. PTVs maybe then it will be worthwhile offering a quality service from IAD-MAN/DUB/SNN etc. I think im confussed as to what the PS is what is the config on the PS 757 aircraft?

dptMAN


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7007 times:

UA does not need to put another fleet type across the atlantic and they are stuck with a stagnant fleet for another 2-3 years per all their releases plus running high load factors and a profit with their current structure. So aside from a.nutters who like to think 'what if' ....what economic reason would they have?

User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20685 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6981 times:

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 9):
PTVs maybe then it will be worthwhile offering a quality service from IAD-MAN/DUB/SNN etc.

If UA were to adopt a premium service across the Atlantic, I would think they would pick higher-yielding markets than where they'd have to compete with the low fares offered by EI.

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 9):
I think im confussed as to what the PS is what is the config on the PS 757 aircraft?

12F/26C/72Y+

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Uni...ted_Airlines_Boeing_757-200_PS.php



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineBongo From Colombia, joined Oct 2003, 1863 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6933 times:

I really don´t like the "757 over the atlantic" trend, I hope this idea doesn´t extend to more airlines.  Sad
For me, crossing the Atlantic is something really special and always has been tied with widebodies.



MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
User currently offlineSwank300 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6919 times:

I, myself, don't want to fly a B757 across the atlantic. I much prefer their larger two aisle planes such as the 767 ER's and their 777's. Anyway they use their 757's for their packed flights from one business hub to another corporate yield flights like lga-ord and Iad-lax.

User currently offlineSjsu2sjcaa777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6684 times:

United's 757's are not all ETOPS and the one's that are ETOPS are used for west coast Hawaii flights, so they really don't have any ETOPS 757 to spare for flights across the pond.

User currently offlineLetsgetwet From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6661 times:

Quoting DptMAN (Reply 9):
What if UA configured some 757s simular to that of CO however with better IFE eg. PTVs

CO's Bus/first service now has AVOD and the service is excellent.


User currently offlineAirEMS From United States of America, joined May 2004, 684 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6650 times:

Just a question without winglets can a 752 make it across the pond?


If Your Dying Were Flying
User currently offlineSafetyDude From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3795 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6640 times:

A few months ago, at the time rumors were starting of UA dropping JFK-LHR/NRT, a few people brought up the possibility of p.s. 757 JFK-LHR service. But with UA selling their rights to DL, it seems p.s. 757 JFK-LHR definitely isn't happening.

-Will



"She Flew For What We Stand For"
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6603 times:

A few reasons why we do not see UA 757s across the Atlantic:

1. UA has a large fleet of 763/772/744 aircraft......making 757 operations unneccessary. While CO was been very successful with 757s on transatlantic flights, and the 757s are interesting on routes to/from smaller cities, dont forget that CO went with the 757 because it had little choice......CO has a limited 767/777 fleet that it dedicated to CO's longest range and highest demand routes. UA, on the other hand, has a huge number of widebody aircraft.

2. UA only flies to key European destination......there is a lot of focus on Heathrow which is all about widebodies and FRA due to Star Alliance connections......outside of LHR and FRA, UA does not have a huge European network and the routes that UA does fly warrants larger aircraft.

3. UA, over the years, has tried several European routes that have been discontinued and its unlikely that further European exapansion is a priority at UA. Two reasons: first, UA has a very very strong partner in LH and second, UA continues to be short on longhaul airplanes (including 757s which are used extensively on Hawaiian services) making any European expansion possible.

4. Unlike DL, AA, US, and CO.......UA has a huge Pacific network and UA seems to think 9and proabably rightly so) that the key to its future success is in the Pacific and Asian markets, thus, UA is not as focused on transatlantic sservices as some of the other US carriers.


User currently offlineLH417AF025 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 276 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6446 times:

IAD-MAD would cause me to piss myself in excitement...


it has been gone WAY too long.


User currently offlineNwafflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6417 times:

I really just don't understand the issues here -- yes, a 757 can easily be ETOPS certified - yes, a 757 can have an enhanced first class, and yes, a 757 can have entertainment - if the airline chooses, and that's the key - does the airline want to attract a first class person, then, the first class area gets the cookie -- does the airline want to attract lower cost travellers, then the airline makes that decision

for those of us travelling, it is equally simple - do we require a lay flat first class seat because of business the next day at our destination? Do we need a first class meal, i.e, hot chicken, or can we sit in coach, fall asleep and eat cold chicken????

those of us who travel all the time fall asleep as soon as we're on a plane, nor do we expect gourmet meals (pre cooked/pre frozen/ pre prepared - that's all we get) -- best thing about first class is 'real nuts' i.e. , cashews, but for those of us on any kind of restricted diet, that doesn't even count

So, let us fall asleep peacefully - upright/sitting/lieing down - offer us basic sustanence for food, and let us get to where we have to go


User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6390 times:

Quoting SafetyDude (Reply 17):
But with UA selling their rights to DL

UA did not sell their JFK-LHR route to DL. They sold their JFK-London route, but DL cannot fly into LHR and will fly into LGW. Big difference.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 18):
UA has a huge Pacific network and UA seems to think 9and proabably rightly so) that the key to its future success is in the Pacific and Asian markets, thus, UA is not as focused on transatlantic sservices as some of the other US carriers.

Agree, and I think it's the right strategy. UA has limited competition (only NW compares) from US airlines across the Pacific while the Atlantic market is already crowded with CO, AA and now DL. Although I could see some minor expansion from UA across the Atlantic, I tend to agree with both UA's and AA's strategy of placing their resources where they can reap proven benefits (Asia, Latin America respectively) rather than DL's riskier strategy of expansion. Third quarter results for all the legacies should be really interesting as I think they will be better barometers of which strategies are working and which aren't.


User currently offlineBongo From Colombia, joined Oct 2003, 1863 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6314 times:

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 16):
Just a question without winglets can a 752 make it across the pond?

Yes ! It can be. In fact some 757´s have been crossing the atlantic a long time ago and the winglets on that plane are quite new.



MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9661 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6249 times:

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 16):
Just a question without winglets can a 752 make it across the pond?

British Airways, American, TWA, and Continental have all had regularly scheduled transatlantic flights with the 757 without winglets. Additionally many charter carriers operate transtlantic flights on 757s, although some make fuel stops on the longer flights or if they are using the 757-300.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3363 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6227 times:

Quoting Bongo (Reply 12):
For me, crossing the Atlantic is something really special and always has been tied with widebodies.

For the record, the first transatlantic flights were done by narrow-body props, and then narrow-body 707s, DC-8s, and Comets. It wasn't until the 1970s when the 747, DC-10, and L-1011 were developed that transatlantic journeys became wide-body territory. So, really, it's mostly been tied with narrow-bodies.

Going back to the topic at hand, another reason why I think that UA flying 757s across the pond wouldn't work out is because of the position of their main East Coast hub. Unlike BOS or JFK for AA, or EWR for CO, IAD's a bit further down the coast, and since some transatlantic crossings are pushing the range for AA and CO's 757s, I doubt there are many routes UA can try from IAD. In addition, their PW-powered 757s don't offer the same performance as AA and CO's RR-powered equipment.


25 FlyDreamliner : NW learned there - and are fitting their 757s for ETOPS with new, international interiors with propper premium seats. Sure. The winglets just let you
26 AADC10 : I think UA is trying to stay away from long thin routes. It has the key LHR slots and several other major destinations, but they will drop routes that
27 Brons2 : Three words: Pratt and Whitney. UA has them on their 757 fleet, other airlines flying transatlantic with the 757 don't.
28 Post contains images N1120A : p.s. might work but the lack of utilization would multiply the CASM issue They do have a crew base in BOS but Dublin, Shannon and Manchester need mor
29 EIRules : EI dont fly to IAD so UA would have that route all to themselves from DUB. US fly to PHL during the summer and AFAIK they have no issues filling that
30 ThePRGuy : Call it 'ExecBusiness' or something Alex
31 N1120A : Then what do you call their business class on those flights?
32 Post contains images SafetyDude : You're mis-quoting me on something I never said. I did not say UA was selling DL JFK-LHR, and in fact I did not even say JFK-LGW. All I said was Keyw
33 BHXDTW : I think US also use their 757s accross the pond ?? not too sure... Joe
34 TinPusher007 : Since CO's 762's carry a similar number of pax as the 752's why didn't they (or don't they) simply order more 762's to fly across the pond?
35 OB1504 : I suppose that they had 757s avaliable and that they offered better economics.
36 Dutchjet : 767-200ERs are far more expensive to operate than 752s.....they use much more fuel and are heavier airplanes, 762s are also more expensive to purchas
37 ThePRGuy : Ok lets call the following: Y+ = "PremiumTraveller" J = "ExecutiveTraveller" F = "BusinessPlus" Something along those lines Something tells me it isn
38 TinPusher007 : Makes sense.
39 UAL777UK : Exactly...Christ, the thought of being stuck on a narrow body for about 7 hours makes me depressed. Give me a wide body any day. UA is doing just fin
40 FlyDreamliner : NW is going to be sending PW powered 757s across the pond - from DTW no less. The PW power is not the reason, it's just coincidence AA, CO, and US ha
41 Bongo : OB1504: That why I said "For me". Because my first transatlantic flight was in 1981 in a DC10, since then... I´ve been flying to Europe on 777, DC10
42 FlyDreamliner : Well, don't feel bad. My first time crossing the pond was in 1991 - in a 767-200ER from PHL-CDG. I remember being amazed how big the airplane was ins
43 RoseFlyer : I'm aware that Geneva is in Switzerland, but it might work along the lines of Dusseldorf, Stuttgart or Hamburg as a route that can sustain a smaller
44 ThePRGuy : I'm not pretending to be an Armchair CEO here, and I have no idea how it would work logistically. If it was on a high yielf JFK-LHR route, then a sma
45 PanAm330 : That is most certainly NOT why they fly to smaller destinations. What would their reasoning be for flying to places like OSL and TXL? Oh, right- pass
46 Post contains images N1120A : You then completely dilute a product United has worked hard to rebuild Cargo too And they are going to have a hell of a time with it. Any narrowbody
47 ThePRGuy : I'm not trying to be an Armchair CEO. I'm just reliving stuff thats worked for other airlines into United
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