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Qantas, Airbus A380 Delays & The Boeing 747-8i  
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 20367 times:

Qantas has made it clear they are very unhappy with the A380 delays. Angry VP´s travelled to Toulouse to tell Airbus to get their act together and demand compensation.

Not very much later they ordered the B787 over the troubled A350.

Qantas showed a lot of interest in the 747-8i, that would be a logical and nice fit below the 12 A380s they can use for only a limited number of routes.

The trend is smaller aircraft will fill in an increasing number of point to point destinations making good use of the 787-9s long range and low seat mile cost.

All said & done, reality is kicking in again. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...story/0,20867,20077276-643,00.html

[Edited 2006-08-09 21:33:38]

101 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10253 posts, RR: 97
Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 20323 times:
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Thanks for the links, Keejse.

Quote:-
"The aircraft is meeting all its guarantees," he said. "The airlines not only know that, they have all the figures and facts on the table."

That'll be a surprise to certain of us who seem to imagine that airlines "shut their eyes and hope for the best" on multi-billion dollar contracts...  Smile

Regards


User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 20280 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 1):
That'll be a surprise to certain of us who seem to imagine that airlines "shut their eyes and hope for the best" on multi-billion dollar contracts...

And the quote comes from who? Richard Carcaillet, A380 marketing director, Airbus.

Didn't Airbus also claim there would be no further delays in the A380 before the latest delay was announced?

Yes, the airlines not only know that, they have all the figures and facts on the table.


User currently onlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3606 posts, RR: 66
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 20246 times:

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
All said & done, reality is kicking in again. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au....html

The following quote from the article is interesting,

"Mr Carcaillet said the Singapore decision to boost its fleet before the aircraft entered service was a clear vote of confidence in the A380. ....
But he could not say if Airbus would meet a commitment to deliver its first A380, to be used initially on Singapore-Sydney, to Singapore by the end of the year."

Reality also seems to be that the A380 delivery to SQ before the end of the 2006 is not certain.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 20105 times:

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 3):
Reality also seems to be that the A380 delivery to SQ before the end of the 2006 is not certain.

I am not sure why people are upset about the delay.

As much as it is a fact that the A380 is delayed, it is also a fact that this airplane is the biggest and most advanced passenger airliner ever built. And given that it introduces new technology and things that were not tried before, its delay should be no surprise.

My opinion is that compared to the time that this aircraft will be in service (Ok I agree that we do not know that but usually is 2-3 decades) a 7-8 month delay is nothing.



CY@Uk
User currently onlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3606 posts, RR: 66
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 19996 times:

Quoting CYatUK (Reply 4):
I am not sure why people are upset about the delay.

SQ has had an extensive advertising campaign underway for some emphasizing that SQ would be the "First to Fly the A380 in 2006". The slogan has even been seen on many of their Executives' business cards.

Given this PR effort, I suspect there are many people at SQ who will be upset if SQ doesn't operate the A380 in 2006.

It is still possible that Airbus will make it, but Mr Carcaillet's lack of commitmtent is interesting.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 19949 times:

Quote:
But he (A380 marketing director Richard Carcaillet) could not say if Airbus would meet a commitment to deliver its first A380, to be used initially on Singapore-Sydney, to Singapore by the end of the year. He pointed to Airbus statements that a review under new CEO Christian Streiff would analyse what went wrong and provide a revised schedule of deliveries.

Sounds like another delay in in the oven...


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 19949 times:

I don't really understand the point of the OP or this thread. The OP seems to suggest the selection of the 787 was more or less a dig at Airbus. I disagree, I think it boiled down purely to the fact that the 787 is a better airplane compared to that iteration of the 350. Seems many other airlines felt the same way.

Anyway, if QF wants to expand their cargo operations with their own dedicated freighters, I believe the 748 is a better choice. Compared to the 748, the 380 only seems to excel in package operations where the weight concentration by area is lower. The 748's nose door doesn't hurt either.

We shall see.



PHX based
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 19949 times:

While there is nothing new or surprising here....it's interesting to see QF want to increase their freight service, especially given that...

"Qantas is considering expanding its freight operations as a way of offsetting slumps in passenger traffic and promoting earnings growth."

I think the 747 will be a good fit for QF freighter.......maybe some 747-8F  pray 

I think the A380 seems to be doing fine right now, and to be honest, until we see how SQ does on its A380 routes, we really won't be able to judge how the A380's are performing......



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMptpa From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 19883 times:

Quoting CYatUK (Reply 4):
introduces new technology

What new technology???? BIGGER does not mean it is anything new!! The fuselage is still old tech; materials are basically old (except newer alloys); engines...same; avionics...same; IFE...may be.... It is simply a packaging of existing tried and tested technology on a larger scale!!

It is unlike on the other hand, B787 has lots of things that ARE new technology:
structure - Composite
Engine - Bleedless
Aerodynamics - advanced incl variable dynamic camber
Aero - all electric actuation
Windows - photo chromatic (new comm av app)
Supply chain - pre-stuffed sub-assemblies
Avionics - TCPIP based communications/bus and networking (DO178B qualified)
etc
etc


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10253 posts, RR: 97
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 19883 times:
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Quoting Khobar (Reply 2):
And the quote comes from who? Richard Carcaillet, A380 marketing director, Airbus.

The fact that Carcaillet quoted it is irrelevant. But he is right.
It amazes that some people actually believe the Airlines don't have a clue what's going on (at Toulouse AND Seattle).

I know exactly what level of oversight we have on procurement contracts of less than £1M, and it's substantial, very substantial.
Even discounted, 19 x A380 has to be the thick end of $4Bn (£2.5Bn), before we start getting into through life support etc etc. What sort of oversight would YOU give a contract that size?
The airlines WILL know.
Whether they've been OFFICIALLY told is a different matter.

I believe it because SQ said so (and both EK and QF also by inference), not Carcaillet.  Smile

(and SQ won't say so just because Airbus said so.....  no  )

A-net can undoubtledly be fun, but a reality check is required occasionally.

Regards


User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 19773 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 11):
The fact that Carcaillet quoted it is irrelevant

The fact that a favourable yet unsubstantiated claim comes from the marketing department of the manufacturer is irrelevant? LOL.

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 11):
But he is right.

And you know this...how exactly?

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 11):
The airlines WILL know.
Whether they've been OFFICIALLY told is a different matter.

The airlines "hearing a rumour" is completely different from "the airlines have all the facts and figures on the table." The only way the airlines would have ALL the facts and figures on the table is if Airbus officially put them there.

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 11):
I believe it because SQ said so



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 11):
(and SQ won't say so just because Airbus said so..... )

Can you post where SQ said so without referring to what Airbus told them, or are you referring to the followon order? The followon order could just as well be a package deal - I haven't heard word one from SQ about the delays suddenly. Hmmm.....

Anything is possible - the fact of the matter is that no one except some in Airbus actually know the real truth regarding the guarantees.


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 19639 times:

Is ther anything new here? No.
And yes it does sound like another delay is in the works.

Lets hope Airbus is just stupid enough not to announce it like last time.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineAeropiggot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 19613 times:

Another misleading header from Airbus favorite son????  bigthumbsup 


A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
User currently offlineMa66 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 19532 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 11):
Even discounted, 19 x A380 has to be the thick end of $4Bn

I'm not sure about that.

Both the SQ order and option/purchase right are from 2001 (price are fixed in 2001). This is also the case for QF and some other orders).

The listprice in 2001 was USD 230M (listprice 19 x A380 USD 4,4Bn). With discount I don't think you can get much higher than USD 3 Bn.
(Unreliable rumours on the internet talks about USD 140M to launch customers.)

Because of this price I don't think there will be any cancelations from any launch customer, because they can't get a better deal from Boeing. And they will use all the options before they even consider to order the 748i.


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3339 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 19473 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 13):
Is ther anything new here? No.

Well I'd say that...

"Singapore had ordered 10 A380s, but recently converted nine options to firm orders, saying the aircraft was measuring up well to its technical specifications, and Airbus had demonstrated that the plane's engineering was sound."

A further firm and public vote of confidence in the aircraft and Airbus despite delays et al by SQ was fairly new and significant.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 19354 times:

Quoting CYatUK (Reply 4):

As much as it is a fact that the A380 is delayed, it is also a fact that this airplane is the biggest and most advanced passenger airliner ever built. And given that it introduces new technology and things that were not tried before, its delay should be no surprise.

It's bigger, but there is little on which to stake a claim of most advanced. The B787 hasn't been built yet, but it will be far more advanced when the first one is flying a year from now.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 8):
Compared to the 748, the 380 only seems to excel in package operations where the weight concentration by area is lower.

The WhaleJet will also be better than the SuperJumbo for transportation of flowers.

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 11):
Even discounted, 19 x A380 has to be the thick end of $4Bn

That seems very unlikely. Probably nearer $3B. Still, your point that the airlines are paying close attention is correct. Each airline has a rep in Toulouse and another in Finkenwerder with fairly free reign to walk around and observe production. However, Airbus management would not disclose anything that is not obvious. The airline reps don't get to sit in on the internal progess meetings. The same is true with Boeing.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 19305 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 18):
The WhaleJet will also be better than the SuperJumbo for transportation of flowers.

I heard it can do LAX-Shanghai non-stop with 150 ton kg & nothing comes close. Heavy drilling equipment is mostly done by boats and old Antonovs anyway  Wink


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31437 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 19292 times:
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Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
"Qantas is considering expanding its freight operations as a way of offsetting slumps in passenger traffic and promoting earnings growth."

I think the 747 will be a good fit for QF freighter...maybe some 747-8F.

Not just 747-8F but perhaps even 747-8I. If QF is worried about "slumping traffic" and wishes to "expand it's freight operations", then a 747-8I would address both issues better then an A388 would - it carries less pax and more underfloor revenue cargo - so it might be QF's choice for future expansion over additional A380s (or in addition to fewer A380s).  twocents 


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 19075 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 19):
Heavy drilling equipment is mostly done by boats and old Antonovs anyway

Drilling equipment is rarely flown to anywhere near a port because it's rarely urgent enough to justify the additional cost. Much drilling equipment is long and would have to be nose (or tail) loaded so even if it were to be flown, drilling equipment is not a case for support of the WhaleJet.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10253 posts, RR: 97
Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18929 times:
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Quoting Khobar (Reply 12):
The airlines "hearing a rumour" is completely different from "the airlines have all the facts and figures on the table." The only way the airlines would have ALL the facts and figures on the table is if Airbus officially put them there.

I've spent 25 years in close proximity to customer representatives.
Whether they're told "officially" or not, those customer representatives WILL know the things that they need to know.

The manufacturers might wish to hide some things, but they won't stay hid for long, and performance in flight testing CERTAINLY won't.
(the depth of the wiring crisis might have been kept from the eye for a while..).

If you want to see it a different way, that's your perogative, but my experience suggests that it is extremely naive to believe that customer reps ONLY know what the manufacturer officially tells them.
Sorry.


User currently onlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3606 posts, RR: 66
Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 18572 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 22):
The manufacturers might wish to hide some things, but they won't stay hid for long, and performance in flight testing CERTAINLY won't.

In my experience (four major airplane Certification programs), airplane flight test performance is not very visible to Customer Reps as they have no rights to be observers during flight tests nor to the results. These data are strictly OEM property. Customer Reps usually do not have permission to enter the Certification flight test area.

The Reps typically know only what the OEM's give them in briefings as flight test information is one of those things that the Flight Test organization treats as OEM proprietary data.

If the answers are good, the OEM typically releases the results to both current Customers and the press. The later is vital to future sales campaigns. This why I think it is strange that Airbus has not given definitive answers to performance like fuel mileage, such as:

"One percent better than Nominal"
or
"Meets Nominal Performance"

Saying the A380 meets guarantees sounds like its performance is not up to expectation since guarantee levels are written with a decrement relative to nominal performance to minimize risk to the OEM.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18293 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 22):
Whether they're told "officially" or not, those customer representatives WILL know the things that they need to know.

I suggest instead that the customer reps don't know squat the manufacturer doesn't officially tell them, in writing. Why? Because anything else is inactionable - the company in question can say anything they want, make any promise they want, but unless it's in writing (official), it doesn't mean a hill of beans. Of course the customer can choose to believe what they're being told - after all, it would be extremely naive to think that they wouldn't have all the facts already (from where? who knows, who cares?), and go with a handshake, smile, and a promise. Or the customer can have the promises written into the contract as guarantees with appropriate penalties for non-compliance. I'm guessing the latter is more the norm.

(Remember, it's not what you know, it's what you can prove)


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18193 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 22):
Whether they're told "officially" or not, those customer representatives WILL know the things that they need to know.

The customers know far more than they are officially told and far less than what the manufacturers know.


User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 18193 times:

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Qantas showed a lot of interest in the 747-8i, that would be a logical and nice fit below the 12 A380s they can use for only a limited number of routes.

The trend is smaller aircraft will fill in an increasing number of point to point destinations making good use of the 787-9s long range and low seat mile cost.

All said & done, reality is kicking in again. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au....html

They may very well order more A380s, but the visit of one Airbus official to SYD is hardly striking evidence. Reality may also kick in with QF ordering more 380s and 748Is. I don't think it is too far fetched that we will see some large long-haul carriers operating both types.


25 Tan Flyr : Having read enought threades, articles, etc. about the A380 and the gushing by some carriers about their plans for the aircraft remind me of the same
26 Post contains links KC135TopBoom : Yeah, cutting the wiring harrnesses so short they don't allow for the flex of the airplane inflight. You are right, I don't believe that has been tri
27 Ken777 : If pax volume at QF is sagging then the 748i might be a better choice for them than more 380s. I doubt, however, that QF would make that decision base
28 Katekebo : I don't know what business you work for, but in 99% of companies if you were responsible for ANY project with a 6+6 months delay, you would be fired
29 F14ATomcat : The real question is what gurantees are being met and what price discounts were offered.
30 Post contains links WingedMigrator : This is nothing new, Airbus hasn't committed to a firm, revised delivery schedule pending review by the new management. A new delay may (or may not)
31 FlyDreamliner : Don't forget this wiring harness is made of aluminum wiring - also a precendent in commercial jetliners... lighter, cheaper, ohh, and it has this nas
32 Post contains images AutoThrust : Please come down from your 787 hype, its not like the 787 has invented the wheel. Although dont want to say the 787 isn't a great and fascinating pla
33 Tom_eddf : A bit OT, but I have to reply on that comment. I've been working for a large (100K+ employees) US company since 2000. I've been in local (german) pos
34 Baron95 : True enough, however the final cirtified aircraft performance data WILL be provided to every customer in the form of the airplanes flight/operating m
35 PanAm_DC10 : Mr Gregg of QF recently stated that they were seriously considering the 744BCF and not the 748F. That said, he does seem to favour a variant of the 7
36 Zvezda : Cutting the wiring harness too short to allow for the inflight flex of the airframe seems to have been a necessary weight-saving measure. It was cert
37 FlyDreamliner : Friend, I meant that as a joke. I honestly meant no harm. I have had jobs (and am on my way to another soon) where I work 100 hours, easily, in a wee
38 OldAeroGuy : Cruise fuel mileage data is not certified and does not appear in the AFM. Fuel mileage appears in Performance data that is not blessed by the Cert. A
39 ANstar : Perahps they will use their 744 or 744er fleet and convert them to freighters rather than buy dedicated freighters?
40 Post contains images Glideslope : Please, this is Airbus. Let's see the numbers after a year of EIS. IMO, you can take figures and facts from Airbus any way other than accurate. IMO,
41 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Hi PanAm_DC10.... I do recall reading that the 744BCF was being considered (thanks for reminding me), I was only hoping for the 747-8F to be in the m
42 N5716B : Now I'm not so sure about that, Katekebo. Were this the computer industry, I'd agree that the person responsible for the FIRST six month delay (let a
43 RedChili : Do you really think that airlines are so stupid that they would put the 777 on the flights "leaving at a more preferred time," and put the A380 on a
44 Post contains images Sebolino : Not so sure. Actually I don't believe you. If true, that's called slavery.
45 Post contains images AirSpare : Another first! The world's largest flying refrigerator! I delivered data services 15 weeks late, causing the customer to delay launching 2 cities !!!
46 Stitch : Well that would make sense for QF's spare 744s that have been replaced by A380s.
47 EI321 : Since when are passenger numbers falling?
48 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Have you bothered to read the article? I'll give you a hand (snippet from the article).... "Qantas is considering expanding its freight operations as
49 EI321 : I thought he was refering to global traffic, not Qantas
50 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ahhh..ok.confusion....but I thought he was refering to QF....
51 DarkBlue : I think you've missed the point. You can fly a route with Airline A that has 1 flight a day on an A380. Airline B flies the same route, but has 3 fli
52 BlueFlyer : Small detail, but I hope you meant TCP/IP, not UDP/IP (I think I read TCP elsewhere actually). The difference, as far as an aircraft is concerned, is
53 Post contains images AutoThrust : I know the difference between UDP/TCP but i couldn't find this on Airbus Website and Google, thats why i took some of this "specifications" from wiki
54 BoomBoom : Nothing would surprise me regarding the A380 anymore. What? Do you think that there's one time that's most convenient for everybody?
55 RedChili : I can assure you that those airlines which will buy the A380 will put it on flights during the peak hours when the demand is the highest. Let me take
56 BoomBoom : So you think the world consists solely of Europe and Asia?
57 RedChili : If you would care to read my whole reply, you would see that I also took examples from North America and Australia. And anyway, all passenger A380s s
58 BoomBoom : I think you need to go back and read your initial post. It's a very broad and sweeping statement and did not specify any particular geographic region.
59 RedChili : It was intentionally a very broad statement, because I wanted to focus broadly on the fact that frequency is not very important on those routes where
60 Baron95 : You should take a page out of the transatlantic traffic. In the 70s, almost all the traffic was on NYC-London and NYC-Paris on 747s and basically only
61 BoomBoom : Oh, so you know all the routes where the A380 will be used? Please inform us and then I will be able to answer some of your other questions. And it w
62 WingedMigrator : For those routes, yes. The problem is that long haul flights that will be typical for the A380 (as opposed to short trans-Atlantic hops) don't work l
63 Post contains links Leelaw : Interestingly, this has been cited as a reason why the A380 might not be a good fit for SAA: ...Hamilton-Manns said it would be feasible to acquire A
64 DistantHorizon : Funny. I thought that what you call "WhaleJet" and Superjumbo were the same bird. You see, every paper, TV channel and magazine calls A380 the "Super
65 RedChili : On the relatively short transatlantic flights, that is true. But for other intercontinental routes, this has not really happened. For transatlantic f
66 Nudelhirsch : Of course they will prefer the 380. Not knowingly. They don't care. but the ticket price is their point. Drop the 20 C flyers. The mass is flying in
67 Baroque : Heck Astuteman, that comes as a great disappointment as I had been hoping to increase the sales of my special dartboards to airlines and plane manufa
68 Post contains links OzGlobal : Then the 747 must have been a major screw-up in your eyes. Are you ignorant of the following delivery history of the 747 or just happy to ignore it?
69 Leelaw : At least the "industrial ramp-up" had been successful, the airframes were otherwise complete, and were awaiting the delivery of properly functioning
70 Alitalia744 : There is nothing straight about the upper-deck sidewall AutoThurst....
71 PolymerPlane : I, too, first thought that for example flight from northern asia, ie. TPE, NRT, HKG,etc. to LAX arrives at night and depart at night at LAX, so time
72 Post contains images Jacobin777 : your making the assumption that larger plane= more cost savings (basically better CASM)...and that's no longer true....if the 787 lives up to its exp
73 BoomBoom : Does it tell you where EK will use their A380s? I know LH ordered the A380, but does that mean they will use it FRA-JFK? Tell me. Did I ever say anyt
74 RedChili : Actually, I don't know so much about trans-Pacific schedules, for the simple reason that I've never flown any such route. Maybe these departure times
75 BoomBoom : What is this based on? Please quote the text that led you to this conclusion. What I said was: Clearly, I'm talking about individual choice, not peak
76 RedChili : It's based upon the fact that you repeatedly contradicted my statements that there are peak hours for intercontinental flights. E.g. in reply 58 you
77 787engineer : Don't forget four engines are (generally; depends on the engine of course) twice as likely to have engine issues (maintenance or otherwise) than two
78 Zvezda : A Boeing survey found that 60% of JumboJet customers bought it for range, 10% for capacity, and 30% for a combination of range and capacity. Sales of
79 BoomBoom : What he said was: Which I believe is true. You then went off on this tangent about Asian flights all leaving at the same time so the pax have no choi
80 FlyDreamliner : I said "I work" not "I am forced to work." Have you ever worked in a start-up tech company? We have few employees and even less money. You don't need
81 Post contains images 787engineer : Some of us (not me, thankfully) have already been working 80-100 hours/week to get the 787 out on time. Sebolino, it isn't that uncommon to find some
82 FlyDreamliner : I know all about this - being a younger guy, still getting my feet wet in the business, it just works out that I work an insane amount sometimes. But
83 Gigneil : Things are really very different in the United States than in continental Europe. I have had more than my fair share of 100 hour weeks before. Ask an
84 RedChili : Your problem is that you only quote part of his paragraph, conveniently leaving out what you don't like. Here's the whole paragraph from reply 25: He
85 Leelaw : The productivity of most people decreases precipitously after only a few weeks of maintaining such a schedule. Having been "asked" to work such an in
86 FlyDreamliner : But in terms of landing a major project by a deadline, assuming the people working on it are motivated and energized by the project (people deticated
87 BoomBoom : Your problem is that you make up stuff. Where did he say anything about the "big picture" and "not only on a few routes" he said on "the 380 will end
88 Post contains images Nitrohelper : A fat stubby jet that looks like a whale with wings , it's built by busboys
89 Keesje : Don´t know how the topic got.. here but I think spending some quality time with your family, sporting & enjoying some cultural events is important e
90 Aither : That's BS... The A380 routes are basically known and almost all could be reached with WB from the early 90s. Are you sure they haven't just updated a
91 Stitch : I believe the study Zvezda notes was commissioned by Boeing in the 1970's about why operators chose the plane when it was launched.
92 Post contains images Dank : In fact, there was a piece by Paul Krugman in the Times which showed that while the per capita GDP in France was lower than in the US, the per hour w
93 Dank : And more on topic now... This raises an interesting question... If the demand for large jets decreases, the proportions will change, but the actual n
94 Art : I had a job where we occasionally worked 100+ hours a week. It was not slavery. We had deadlines that could not be missed. If we did not finish build
95 Plevtls : Not really true, for example I could work 200 hours a week, but, if the supplier doesn't supply what I need to do the work, it doesn't matter how man
96 Post contains images WingedMigrator : No you couldn't. Do the math
97 Post contains images Scbriml : You could try, but you'd fail comfortably!
98 Stitch : Very true. As you noted in your reply (which I snipped for brevity), A380 operators are choosing the airframe for the sheer capacity. They might also
99 Art : Fair comment. I'm not quite sure though whether you are intimating that if the suppliers did their job and supplied everything on time, Airbus employ
100 Post contains images Zvezda : That's irrelevant to what I wrote. Quite sure, but thanks for checking.
101 PlevTLS : Yeah okay, you get my point though......(It's been a long week this week!!) I think you'll find that those who can do the extra hours, will, myself i
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