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USA Today: Strike Could Liquidate NW  
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2910 posts, RR: 6
Posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9769 times:

Saber rattling?
http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztra...09-northwest-possible-strike_x.htm

Apologies if this is buried in another thread....

86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9722 times:

Sounds like the typical managment response to the typical union response to the typical managment threats. NWA has put itself in this position.... negotiate in good faith, and quit crying....

User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8653 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9686 times:

Good luck to NW.

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9588 times:

Seems like every time this is brought up, NW's unions seem to blink first, and, perhaps, realize that not having a job at all is not in their best interest.

Is it sabre-rattling? Absolutely. Could it really happen? Absolutely. You can't lose 20% of your business overnight and survive for very long.


User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9536 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
realize that not having a job at all is not in their best interest.

the problem this time around is that you have a labor group who is making so litttle they can very easily go out and replace the vast majority of thier income even if they have to work as a waitress in a resturaunt. The union will not cave this time.


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2165 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9516 times:

AFA has blinked everytime on every contract proposal in the last few years. They invented CHAOS because they could not get the membership to walk as a group so they resulted to 'deniable' guerrilla tactics of spot job actions.

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9174 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 9411 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
Seems like every time this is brought up, NW's unions seem to blink first, and, perhaps, realize that not having a job at all is not in their best interest.

This to me is rediculous. Take the darned pay cut, stay at work, work for your company, build up moral, blah blah blah. Would I be upset if someone said I'd be paid less than what I have now? Of course, but it would make a difference in the company's sole existance...

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
Is it sabre-rattling? Absolutely.

 checkmark 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
Could it really happen? Absolutely.

 checkmark  I think I might be able to list companies this happened to. Not necessarily airlines, but other companies that went on strike only to wind up out of business...

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
You can't lose 20% of your business overnight and survive for very long.

Euuuhh... In this day and age, you'd liquidate the next day I'd bet... Watch...

NW FAs will all strike on the 15th, and in the USA Today, the headline will read "Northwest Shuts Operations, Is No More..." or something to that extent...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3802 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 9378 times:

Whatever happened to the scab FAs NW spent million$ to train not so very long ago?

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4741 posts, RR: 45
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 9340 times:

have to side with the F/As on this one and if it brings NWA down, so be it.


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 9310 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 8):
have to side with the F/As on this one and if it brings NWA down, so be it.

And I do not think their Pacific division is as valuable as it once was. The China authorities and Narita slots have value, but there is not much else to be gained that one can't get on their own.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 9288 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 8):
have to side with the F/As on this one and if it brings NWA down, so be it.

So NW is gone by the end of the month....the FA say
yaaaaaaaaaaaaa...now they apply for work with Skywest and Mesa....
Now who won?????
Think it out first, will ya kid?
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineFleet Service From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 622 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 9241 times:

Pure saber rattling, you can look back at all of the airlines that were engaged in concession negotiations and all of the labor groups made strike threats, with the Delta pilots going as far as having a 'Practice Strike'.Ultimately, every last one of them accepted concessions and moved forward.

The only exception is the maintenance technicians at NW, who struck and were replaced in short order.

Airline labor is a toothless tiger these days.



Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 9219 times:

YAWN - the F/As won't put NWA out of business.... NW will put itself out of business. You people need to understand:

LABOR IN THIS COUNTRY IS TIRED OF BEING THE BANDAID FOR THEIR AIRLINES' MISMANAGEMENT AND FATCAT GOLDEN PARACHUTES.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.....


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4741 posts, RR: 45
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 9219 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 10):
o NW is gone by the end of the month....the FA say
yaaaaaaaaaaaaa...now they apply for work with Skywest and Mesa....
Now who won?????
Think it out first, will ya kid?
safe

1) I'm not a kid, just not as old as you.
2) I did think it out, there is more to life than serving people on an airplane, and if these people feel they can do better elsewhere, they should. Whether they quit en-masse, or strike, the same end result happens.
3) NWA needs to figure out how to operate their business outside of just constantly f'ing the employees over
4) I have friends/family that work for NWA and know what they're facing. And no, they're not flight attendants so they have nothing to gain by a strike and only things to lose.

5) f'off.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineFleet Service From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 622 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 9198 times:

Quoting Travatl (Reply 12):
LABOR IN THIS COUNTRY IS TIRED OF BEING THE BANDAID FOR THEIR AIRLINES' MISMANAGEMENT AND FATCAT GOLDEN PARACHUTES.

Then why does labor accept concession after concession?

Everyone talks tough, but when push comes to shove the decision to actually strike and shut a carrier down is a call no one is willing to actually make.



Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 9144 times:

Quoting Travatl (Reply 1):
negotiate in good faith, and quit crying....

They did.... TWICE. And they didn't even have to negotiate a second time. The rank and file voted two different TAs down, contrary to the recommendations of TWO different union management teams. Maybe the FAs should go for a THIRD union to represent them and see if they come up with anything better?

Now, how exactly is NW management "doing this to itself"??



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9174 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 9144 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 13):
Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 10):
o NW is gone by the end of the month....the FA say
yaaaaaaaaaaaaa...now they apply for work with Skywest and Mesa....
Now who won?????
Think it out first, will ya kid?
safe

1) I'm not a kid, just not as old as you.
2) I did think it out, there is more to life than serving people on an airplane, and if these people feel they can do better elsewhere, they should. Whether they quit en-masse, or strike, the same end result happens.
3) NWA needs to figure out how to operate their business outside of just constantly f'ing the employees over
4) I have friends/family that work for NWA and know what they're facing. And no, they're not flight attendants so they have nothing to gain by a strike and only things to lose.

5) f'off.

Is this necessary???

Going back to that statement though about the "then they apply for skywest and mesa..." That would be a riot if that hypothetical scenario occurs. Aren't there a bunch of negative comments circling their way around here regarding mesa? They walk off the job at NWA, losses really accumulate, NWA can't/won't rebound, therefore causing ch7 filing, and NWA is history. Then, those "airline crashers" go work for mesa... Sorry, that whole thought just intrigues me. I doubt it will all pan out as such, but it's still funny nonetheless...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineQantas787 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 9106 times:

I think it is time to say good bye to NW. It really is an old decrepit carcass of an airline. Go on strike FA's and give anyone who is involved an opportunity to kill it off and pick the bones. Only good will become of it.

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 9106 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 13):

Ya sound like one.. I just got off two NW DC you-know-whats about 90 minutes ago and the FA's don't want to strike anymore they you wish to learn facts.
So remove head from buttocks and talk to them! You just might get educated!

I used to work for em and have a few buddies around the system and others in the pipeline and I dont mean in the cockpit. So of the folks I worked with got promoted through the years and some carry some weight.........and knowledge.
Therefore I feel my gang will bulldoze yours with insight and knowledge any day anytime.

The whole idea is to compete and survive. With the lenient pay and bonus and benefit packages they had four years ago, they were dead in five years....then came the oil prices and fuel became the biggie. The only place to go after renegotiating all
contracts and planes and services was the help.
Its a good thing you dont run an airline....or a company......you'd never make it...................kid
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 9106 times:

You named it Fleet Service.

Labor has watched airline after airline demand concessions. When the environment was one that it seemed every airline was on the brink... few were willing to take the chance of a full out strike. Now in an environment where money is ready to be made again, and NWA is STILL demanding not only competitive concessions, but bone-cutting repeals of wages, and work rules (including some that are gonna put a LOT of union members on the street), then there's a lot of pressure on the NW flight attendants to finally put an end to this never ending "taking" from mgmt teams. And this isn't a full blown strike, this is simply a PR game being threatened.


User currently offlineFleet Service From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 622 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 9061 times:

One profitable quarter does not a turn around make.Fuel is still a wild card and it looks to be going nowhere but up for the short term.Couple that with the seasonal demand drop off of the fall and we shall see how all of the airlines fare.


Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
User currently offlineKLMA330 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 694 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 9003 times:

Flying NW to Miami on August 31st returning Sept 12th.

AA has a sale on expedia for 400 bucks. Should I buy it, just in case? or will I fly? what do you guys think? I"m a bit nervous...


User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5155 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 8989 times:

AFA made a huge deal about doing CHAOS strikes at UA, because of the pension termination. The AFA/UA website had a new code word every week, which gave the impression that each code word corresponded to a set of flights or cities that were to be struck.

Yet, not one flight was ever cancelled due to CHAOS.

It seems to me that if AFA doesn't do a CHAOS strike against NW, then in negotiations in the future with any airline, management won't take the threat of a CHAOS strike seriously.

AFA has boxed itself into a position of either having to agree to a contract that is very close to management's negotiating position or risking a shut down and possible liquidation of NW.


User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 8840 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 13):
1) I'm not a kid, just not as old as you.

Ok, you're not a kid, fine.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 13):
5) f'off.

But here you act like one. If you want respect on here, give it back. It's a two way street.

I don't think there will be a strike. Too many times in the past few years we've seen this sort of thing, only for some last minute deal to be made, and the f-ed up airline lives on.


User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1168 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 8793 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 6):
This to me is rediculous. Take the darned pay cut, stay at work, work for your company, build up moral, blah blah blah. Would I be upset if someone said I'd be paid less than what I have now? Of course, but it would make a difference in the company's sole existance...

Isn't it the job of management to build up morale, work for the company and take pay cuts necessary to keep the airline in business?

As someone else mentioned, these F/A's have nothing to lose. People do crazy things when they have nothing to lose. It would be very easy to get another entry level job that pays as much as it does at NW. The lifestyle changes would be an adjustment, and for that reason NW F/A's would like to keep their jobs. It would not be the end of their worlds if they had to go out and find another low paying job.


25 ASFlyer : Or they apply with UA or CO or AS or B6 or WN, or any of the myriad of regional carriers that are hiring. It would be a life change, but they wouldn'
26 Falcon84 : Then maybe that's what they should do, and let those who want to make NW a better airline do just that. This suicide pact crap is just that-crap. Not
27 ASFlyer : None of the F/A's are opposed to taking cuts or giving back. It's the extent to which management expects them to give back. As in negotiations at oth
28 HPAEAA : Hm.. where do I start... or should labor unions be blamed for the airlines mismanagement? I mean, its not like everytime they try to compensate the t
29 TVNWZ : In my mind the union has already caved. With a new union in place only one in four flight attendants voted AGAINST the last tenative agreement. 3 of
30 ASFlyer : F/A's very narrowly turned down TA2. They overwhelmingly turned down TA1. They also had a pretty strong strike vote for TA1. Now that they've turned
31 TVNWZ : Yes they do. In collective bargaining the latest vote is the one that counts in the power play of union politics. Union #2 could only generate a 50%
32 MSPGUY : If it's not a big deal to them, they should just quit. Let the company have staff who wants to work. I didn't like the way my former company was trea
33 ASFlyer : The post I was referring to was the post where you said only 25% of the F/A's were willing to walk based on the vote for TA2. You said nothing about
34 ASFlyer : If all of the unhappy F/A's left the result would be the same. There aren't that many left that think their jobs are worth keeping under the current
35 JAFA : Try losing not 20% but 40% of your pay and benefits and see if you can survive on that.
36 AADC10 : The airline does not decide if it is going to liquidate, it is the creditors and the creditors loath going to Ch.7 and losing their money. A prolonged
37 ZKNBX : Well said. NW has been pretty screwed up with the events of the past 10 years; poor strategic planning and financial management has contributed most
38 DALelite : Good Luck, NWA DALelite
39 Brdcessna : I agree sooo much I was an ese for NW. Well the did our contracts, then replaced us within a few weeks Well said. I think I heard somewhere that the
40 DTW757 : This is the United States....Not a single person has a gun held to their head and is being forced to work at their job. If you don't like what the co
41 Post contains images Halls120 : Several months ago, DL was being threatened by a pilot strike. At that time, there was outrage directed at the pilots from several Anet posters, sayi
42 Bobnwa : The F/A's are being asked to take the same cuts as the rest of the employee groups at NWA including management. Yes the cuts hurt, but the F/A's are
43 Goaliemn : The judge approved TA1 for imposition. NW didn't have the option of imposing TA2. I've had that happen to me.. I quit and went elsewhere. Nope. Every
44 Alitalia744 : I wasn't happy then as much as I'm not happy about the NWA situation, and while a pilot strike would have crippled DL, management needed a clear sign
45 787KQ : With the clear exception of Southwest, many US airlines (and other companies) have management that pays themselves first, including those golden para
46 Rj777 : "It's the End Of Northwest as we know it!It's the End Of Northwest as we know it! And I feel fine!"
47 RAPCON : Best of luck in liquidation NW. We hardly knew ya! WN will love to pick up a alot of those routes!!!
48 Bobnwa : If it's domestic routes, WN can start flying them right now if they wanted.
49 AirTran717 : Guys, I used to be an F/A for FL. CHAOS was threatened at one point with one of our negotiations as well. The company sign our contract on the 11th ho
50 AirTran717 : Fuel costs play a large role now. I will agree with this. But most of the problems these companies face reach much farther back than this war and 9/11
51 YULWinterSkies : Yep it's time for the managers to move their fat a**, open hubs in key US cities such as NYC or LAX or Chicago, get rid of MSP and DTW, get rid of DC
52 FlyDreamliner : They have the largest pacifiic network of any US carrier, servicing more Asian destinations - and they are expanding. The opperate a hub at NRT. If a
53 Jetjack74 : No not everyone wants to, but we are fighting for getting what's right. It's no secret we don't exactly have the brightest members . It was suprising
54 AirTran717 : I'll give a perfect example of our management's thinking at the time. One of our top share holders... whom shall remain nameless... actually said at a
55 DTW757 : Conveniently you chose to delete the rest of what I had to say.....I said not a single persons has a gun to their head forcing them to work any job!
56 Tango-Bravo : DL's pilots did indeed send a "clear signal" to management: that management can take from employees all they wish and labor can be counted upon to ac
57 Commavia : Well, personally, I find it debatable whether or not this strike will actually happen or not. However, I think it is fairly certain that if it does go
58 Bobnwa : Are you the reincarnation of MalpensaSFO
59 MalpensaSFO : There are more people fed up with the NWA way of doing things! The current situation at Northwest Airlines was not brought about by the employees, it
60 Iluv2pilot : We can only hope...NW is in terrible shape, it's aircraft are old, in poor shape, and the airline has taken a nose dive. One of these majors needs to
61 TWFirst : Management aren't employees? As well they shouldn't be. It is sad, but if they aren't satisfied with the pay, it is the logical choice.
62 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : Unfortunately what you said is 100% correct. The way that people want to keep airlines afloat for the jobs holds no merit. In the U.S. overall there
63 Fleet Service : You are of course aware the NWA maintenance technicians are still on strike?
64 TWFirst : OBVIOUSLY, you didn't see the Q2 results. If you need help reading and understanding them, there are several knowledgable people on these boards who
65 Post contains images MalpensaSFO : We have been at odds before, but I fully agree on this one! Let me clarify the above comment to "line employees".
66 FlyDreamliner : Did you know if you consilidated NW's opperations out of DTW and MSP, it would be as large an opperation as AA has in DFW, and nearly what DL has in
67 MalpensaSFO : There is serious doubt that any one route in the NWA system generates the premium revenue that UA/AA earns on their LHR flight in P and J cabins. In
68 Tango-Bravo : Really? Then why does the airline for whom I work find it necessary to offer a bounty of $1,000.00 to anyone who refers a candidate who is successful
69 Bobnwa : As usual, you ignore the facts. NWA does have the highest profit margin and highest load factor of any legacy carrier. Please address those TWO facts
70 MalpensaSFO : Again, since people are saying that NWA has the highest profit margin, please provide proof of the high profits NWA is making in the markets of Londo
71 Post contains images DTW757 : Reminds me of comments that LHR001 used to make who has disappeared completely.
72 Bobnwa : The financial community has published the profit margins for all legacy carriers and they are available to the all the public, including you. Don't g
73 MalpensaSFO : Can anyone provide proof that NWA makes a higher profit than UA or AA in the London, Los Angeles, New York, Washington D.C., Boston, San Francisco, F
74 Bobnwa : You keep saying they didn't.No one is saying they did. Why do keep ignoring the question , does NWA have the highest profit margin of the legacy carr
75 SCCutler : The ignorance of basic reality apparent in this post is staggering.
76 MalpensaSFO : Please refer to your reply about NWA making the highest profit margin!
77 Bobnwa : Yes, NWA has the highest profit margin. I said that and its true. No one ever said that NWA had the highest profit margins in the individual markets
78 MalpensaSFO : How can an airline have the highest profit margin when it is not making the highest profit in the leading business markets of London, Hong Kong, Peki
79 Bobnwa : It is very easy to have highest profit margin among legacies without being the highest in the markets you mention as you very well know. And no, I am
80 SHUPirate1 : They don't. America WestUS Airways does. US Airways Group: Operating: $342 million (12%) Northwest: Operating: $295 million (9%)
81 Bobnwa : You are right, I stand corrected. NWA came in at #2.
82 MalpensaSFO : Is there a link. The research I have done does not prove that Northwest Airlines has the highest profit margin. It all points elsewhere. Perhaps you
83 Bobnwa : I guess you have been proven wrong in that! No, and neither did WN, HP/US the top Three in profit margin. Your point is? I was wrong about NW being a
84 SHUPirate1 : For what it's worth, Bob, as far as net profit margin is concerned, Continental was also ahead of Northwest. In operating profit, however, Northwest i
85 MalpensaSFO : So for the record the information that BobNWA put forth was incorrect.. So you cannot prove that NWA made a higher profit than any of the above airli
86 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: Detroit Free Press NWA Attendants Reconsider Walkouts In Light Of Plot http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...icle?AID=/20060811/NEWS99/6081
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