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DL To Fly 2x ATL-GRU With Seasonal Daily-light  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6635 times:
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Delta obtained special approval from ANAC to run seasonal flight during the Brazilian summer, between ATL and GRU. Authorization grant from December 15 to March 28, 2007.

This is an interesting development as it will provide use for one aircraft )767-300ER) parked during the day at GRU.

DL145 will depart ATL at 0945 arriving GRU at 2210

DL144 will depart GRU at 1005 arriving ATL at 1645

With such special approval, DL will run 28 weekly flights to Brazil.


ANAC also authorized:

+2x weekly flights EZE-GRU (AR)
+5x weekly flights SCL-GRU (LA)

Felipe


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6629 times:

interesting...this would eliminate the dead time DL airplanes sit at GRU. I would think the return overnight flight would have to leave close to midnight in order to provide enough ground time in GRU - not impossible but that seems later than when I've flown from there to ATL on DL in the past.

any word about AA's request? Did DL get something and AA didn't?

Did ANAC like DL's proposal better because it wasn't a direct competitor to a Brazilian carrier's flights?

thanks for the info....help us fill in more details.

[Edited 2006-08-10 04:33:29]

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6599 times:
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Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 1):
any word about AA's request? Did DL get something and AA didn't?

AA requested more flights also, they received the approval for 2 weekly flights (from 5x GRU-DFW to 7x GIG-MIA), but they really need and want more. Without RG (last summer they run 13 weekly flights to MIA) and due to the market growth, i believe at least 7 extra flights to MIA will be allowed by ANAC.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 1):
Did ANAC like DL's proposal better because it wasn't a direct competitor to a Brazilian carrier's flights?

For sure! I have some doubts about a daily-light and the possible connections at ATL to connect DL144/145. It seems too early (departure) and too late (arrival). MIA daily light arrives earlier, and MIA is by far a strong O&D market from Brazil.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 1):
interesting...this would eliminate the dead time DL airplanes sit at GRU

They will still keep one 763ER from JFK flight all the day at GRU.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineTeixeim From United States of America, joined May 2005, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6592 times:

These new flights seem to already be in the DL system. I just checked for Dec. 16th and returning Jan. 11 and the economy sections were empty for now. Sure makes for speedy transit time connecting to a daytime flight and a flight returning stateside in late afternoon/early evening. Can't wait to see what develops here....

Can anyone provide info on DL's new JFK-GRU service? Loads, etc.?


User currently offlineVenezuela747 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1428 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6585 times:

Well that looks like an odd time. Don't most flight to GRU are red eyes both in and out of GRU. It limits the amount of connections traffic going through ATL before 9AM, and get into GRU really late


ROLL TIDE!!!
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8906 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6555 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 2):
It seems too early (departure) and too late (arrival). MIA daily light arrives earlier, and MIA is by far a strong O&D market from Brazil.

I'm going to disagree here. For the ATL-GRU flight, the entire East Coast of the United States is available (pretty much any decent sized DL station on the Eastern Time Zone has an arrival at ATL by 9; the PWM/MHT/BOS flights all land by 9 a.m.), and there are also connections available from the West Coast on red-eyes. For the return, not only does it open up connections to Europe (a 1645 arrival will allow for connections to nearly every European city DL serves), but also pretty much every domestic city in the DL network can be reached that same day as well. This move makes DL a player in the Brazil-Europe market; the daytime GRU-ATL connects to Europe, and the red-eye ATL-GRU connects from all the European arrivals.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6531 times:
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Quoting Teixeim (Reply 3):
Can anyone provide info on DL's new JFK-GRU service? Loads, etc.?

Due to RG problems, the flight is performing very well as per friends at GRU. I have info for just one flight, the DL121 from JFK arrived at July 26 with 160 pax on board.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6506 times:
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Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 5):
I'm going to disagree here. For the ATL-GRU flight, the entire East Coast of the United States is available (pretty much any decent sized DL station on the Eastern Time Zone has an arrival at ATL by 9; the PWM/MHT/BOS flights all land by 9 a.m.), and there are also connections available from the West Coast on red-eyes. For the return, not only does it open up connections to Europe (a 1645 arrival will allow for connections to nearly every European city DL serves), but also pretty much every domestic city in the DL network can be reached that same day as well. This move makes DL a player in the Brazil-Europe market; the daytime GRU-ATL connects to Europe, and the red-eye ATL-GRU connects from all the European arrivals.

DeltaAirlines, i doubt DL can be a player on Brazil-Europe market: Europe does not require any kind of visa for Brazilians (if we use non-stop) and if we take a DL flight to ATL we will need to wait 25 days for an interview on consulates, pay US$ 100,00 for a transit visa (and it could be denied), and spend at least 10 hours more for a flight GRU-ATL-Europe. Of course, a few number of people can do this!
Concerning to domestic destinations, thanks for your explanation, no doubt DL can fight for Brazilian routes on several US markets although it's a seasonal service and will run only during the Brazilian summer.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33054 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6453 times:

Interesting choice by Delta. The first time around their 2nd daily ATL-GRU flight performed poorly, but with Varig gone there is a shot to make it work. I don't see it working well as a daylight unless cargo plays a big part. I'm sure they would have it be a redeye if it were not for lack of airplanes.

AA hopes to add a second daily MIA-GRU daylight with the 772 that is parked all day, making 4x daily MIA-GRU for them. They will already be doubling MIA-GIG capacity to 2x daily during the Northern winter (12x weekly during the Northern summer).



a.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20751 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6449 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
AA hopes to add a second daily MIA-GRU daylight with the 772 that is parked all day

Is AA's current daylight flight going down to 4x/week on Sept 8th just temporary?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6424 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
AA hopes to add a second daily MIA-GRU daylight with the 772 that is parked all day, making 4x daily MIA-GRU for them. They will already be doubling MIA-GIG capacity to 2x daily during the Northern winter (12x weekly during the Northern summer).

Wouldn't this extra allotment allow AA to finally expand beyond GRU/GIG? Couldn't they use the extra 7 weekly frequencies to BSB, MAO, REC, etc.?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33054 posts, RR: 71
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6424 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):

Is AA's current daylight flight going down to 4x/week on Sept 8th just temporary?

Of course. AA does this every year because of slow demand during September and October, and because AA sends thier planes into heavier maintence checks so they have less planes available. This year they will be even more short of 763s as usual due to the new business class conversion. The flight reverts to daily in November.

However, given the fact that Varig has yet to resume MIA flights (although it will be the first long-haul city they resume after FRA, which they have already resumed), I would not be surprised to see AA operate the flight daily through Sept/Oct this year.



a.
User currently offlineJrlander From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 6378 times:

On a slightly related note, Delta.com is showing a Crown Room Club at GRU. Is this new?

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6240 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
AA hopes to add a second daily MIA-GRU daylight with the 772 that is parked all day, making 4x daily MIA-GRU for them. They will already be doubling MIA-GIG capacity to 2x daily during the Northern winter (12x weekly during the Northern summer).

Don't you think it's better a daily-light JFK-GRU with the 772 ? I believe JFK-GRU market allows a successful daily-light flight to Brazil. RG 4x weekly daily light use to be not so full, but AA keep a much strong base of customers and not a bad reputation and probably will obtain a better result.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 10):
Wouldn't this extra allotment allow AA to finally expand beyond GRU/GIG? Couldn't they use the extra 7 weekly frequencies to BSB, MAO, REC, etc.?

BigGSFO i don't think due to costs of establish a new base, and it will be only during 4 months. For sure it will be a smart move.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
However, given the fact that Varig has yet to resume MIA flights (although it will be the first long-haul city they resume after FRA, which they have already resumed), I would not be surprised to see AA operate the flight daily through Sept/Oct this year.

US-Brazil market lost 27 weekly flights in a time with 10% more (at least) demand, and even with new DL seasonal service ANAC knows the need for more 3 daily flights just to keep last year levels. JJ new service MAO-MIA helps, but it's an A320 with 156 seats only. RG return to MIA (daily) is something unclear, they obtained this week 5 more B733 for domestic routes but nothing yet for the international long haul flights.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6203 times:

Brazilians aren’t the only ones that travel between Europe and Brazil. Most Europeans do not need visas to transit the US.

Granted, travel via the US takes longer than via European hubs but DL serves many secondary cities from ATL to Europe that have no direct service to Brazil. And the point is not that DL would get the highest revenue from those passengers just that DL would have the ability to sell some connections even at lower end fares to help fill seats that may – or may not – go empty.

DL actually has flights arriving in ATL in time to connect with the new daylight flight from most cities in the Eastern and Central time zones as well as the red eye flights from nearly a dozen cities on the west coast. Since DL also has red eye flights from DEN and SLC to ATL, only smaller secondary cities in the Mountain time zone and some Central Time Zone cities are the only ones that cannot connect to the new flight.

I suspect a lot of business people will like being able to arrive in GRU in time to go to bed and then wake up refreshed for meetings instead of arriving in the morning and then having to fight sleepiness throughout the first day.

Despite numerous attempts by a.netters to show that DL cannot make various int’l flights from ATL work, there have been precious few international route failures by DL from ATL although some flights have not had the profit potential others have had. DL has the world’s largest hub there with flights to five continents as of this winter. ATL is not the SE backwater far too many people here make it out to be.


User currently offlineDelta787 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6184 times:

Quoting Jrlander (Reply 12):
On a slightly related note, Delta.com is showing a Crown Room Club at GRU. Is this new?

Yes Its new. I got an email from Delta recently saying they were opening a Crown Room at GRU.



Fly Delta!
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6113 times:

Interesting that Delta is starting this flight. It will be interesting to see this work out. Of course, they fact that DL can now use 2 planes for 2 roundtrips instead of just one r/t is a positive thing. Plus as said, connection opportunities are not that bad either, at least on the ATL side. IIRC, Delta operates a total of 14 redeyes from the Western US, which certainly isn't that bad, plus of course early arrivals from the rest of the US. It could work.

User currently offlineTeixeim From United States of America, joined May 2005, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6067 times:

We just got two beautiful (nice shot of Rio Sugar Loaf mtn w/beach) postcard mailers from Delta SkyMiles reminding us of daily flights to Rio and São Paulo via ATL and JFK. The first postcard had a misspelling of Rio de Janeiro (as Rio de Janiero). Also mentioned a website landing page in Portuguese: http://www.delta.com/portugues. An interactive map of South America is featured along with a quick search for flights.

User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4033 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6026 times:

Let us hope ANAC becomes more and more accommodating to requests for temporary frequencies for high season. It makes no sense to squeeze the US-Brazil nonstop market and push traffic into the arms of Copa, Lan, Taca and Avianca. But when was it that the Brazilian gov't made any sense?


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User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1363 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5828 times:

Oi Felipe,

This is great news for us here in Hawaii! With this new flight, DL will now be the quickest way for people in Hawaii to travel to Brazil with one stop service from HNL to ATL and on to GRU. The travel time will only be 19 hours, which is much faster than any other carrier's service.
Unfortunately, I just got off of DL's website as I want to spend New Years in Rio and the price they quoted for HNL-ATL-GRU-ATL-HNL was $2700.00+ US!!
Hopefully, the fares will come down soon!

Aloha,
HALFA



Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5807 times:
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Quoting HALFA (Reply 19):
Unfortunately, I just got off of DL's website as I want to spend New Years in Rio and the price they quoted for HNL-ATL-GRU-ATL-HNL was $2700.00+ US!!

Hi Halfa ! Nice to read your words my friend, wish to meet you at Rio this New Years. I'm now on the same situation (i'm moving to New York as i was promoted!) and take care on GRU-GIG legs as Tam increase their fares from R$ 99 to R$ 720 (as per a friend, to avoid pax from other airlines to just use their service, not allowing Tam to offer connections for their own pax). If you buy only this leg, the only available fare is Full Y. For Xmas, Unfortunately i tried to book a ATL-GIG flight on Dec, 22 but it's almost full (i saw only 6C seats available and the lower fare is US$ 5,500 with return on Y).

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 18):
Let us hope ANAC becomes more and more accommodating to requests for temporary frequencies for high season. It makes no sense to squeeze the US-Brazil nonstop market and push traffic into the arms of Copa, Lan, Taca and Avianca. But when was it that the Brazilian gov't made any sense?

Today they authorized more 6x GIG-EZE for AR ! And more will come...

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5609 times:

Lipe:

Tks for the news. Here are DL new schedule for Brazil effective Dec/06:

DL 145 ATL-GRU 09:45 22:10 B767 daily
DL 105 ATL-GRU 19:40 08:05 B767 daily
DL 121 JFK-GRU 21:00 09:35 B767 daily
DL 061 ATL-GIG 19:45 08:10 B767 daily

DL 144 GRU-ATL 10:05 16:45 B767 daily
DL 104 GRU-ATL 22:55 05:35 B767 daily
DL 120 GRU-JFK 22:50 05:25 B767 daily
DL 060 GIG-ATL 22:55 05:40 B767 daily

Rgs,


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5561 times:

Thanks for the times, but are those exact? Looking at the times, flight 105/144 work out to your typical 24-hour longhaul turn, with 2- and 3-hour turns, whereas the 104/145 combo isn't exactly well-timed, with a 4:10h turn at ATL, yet only 0:45 at GRU. That can't really work, unless flt 145 departs ATL 1 hour earlier.

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5500 times:
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Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 22):
Thanks for the times, but are those exact? Looking at the times, flight 105/144 work out to your typical 24-hour longhaul turn, with 2- and 3-hour turns, whereas the 104/145 combo isn't exactly well-timed, with a 4:10h turn at ATL, yet only 0:45 at GRU. That can't really work, unless flt 145 departs ATL 1 hour earlier.

Timetable is correct.

Very good comment, and at GRU 45 minutes to do all procedures (including a little cleaning), seems that all the days DL night flight will be delayed. They need at least 80 minutes!

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5495 times:

It looks like DL145 get into GRU at night and then ONs and leaves as DL144 to ATL at 10:05 the next morning. All other aircraft spend the day at GRU like usual and leave that night.

Jeremy


25 LipeGIG : To do this DL needs a 3rd aircraft at least and need to stay parked during the night and it's not a smart decision. But it could be. IMO it could be
26 DAL767400ER : Indeed, it would be a waste of an aircraft. But then again, December is off-season to Europe, where DL will probably need around 6-7 planes less, so
27 Jetlanta : Delta has actually been doing a significant amount of 767 cleaning and mtc in Brazil. This additional downtime may have something to do with that as w
28 Hardiwv : Interesting comment. Which company performs DL maintenance in Brazil? VEM? Tks,
29 LipeGIG : Hardi, they use VEM services at GIG. Also some good news, during a ceremony yesterday for the opening of DL new ticket office in Rio, the Directors s
30 Hardiwv : Tks for the info. I am also curious. Considering that DL cannot get more slots to Brazil, it could be a change in the route of its current flights. M
31 Post contains links Panamair : Yes, apparently DL now has a Crown Room Club (CRC) at GRU: http://www.delta.com/traveling_check...crown_room_locations/index.jsp#sao
32 Hardiwv : Indeed, very interesting development. AF lounge in GRU is overcrowded and cannot cope with the huge increase of pax using the lounge. With its own lo
33 Panamair : Interesting that the opening hours are from 6am to Midnight - they must be also contracting it out to other airlines for most of the day then....
34 WorldTraveler : although the daylight flight will keep DL busier in the morning... could be a nice place for business travelers to hold an airport meeting.
35 Teixeim : Since someone brought up catering... When flying DL RIC-ATL-GRU in December 2005, we found the catering at GRU to be better than the ATL catering, esp
36 Post contains images Hardiwv : Very good point here and I find the same! Interesting to note that CO offers Guarana - not Antartica though on its flights to both GRU and GIG! Anyon
37 LipeGIG : Another possibility is to upgrade GRU-ATL to 764 year round, and include the tag on JFK-GRU to CNF instead of GIG. With this, Delta will take the adv
38 WorldTraveler : Felipe, what do you mean "new base"? do you see DL extending one of their routes to MVD or even the ASU route that AA is being requested to do? While
39 Nickofatlanta : Following on from what WorldTraveller said above, we should also remember that this second ATL-GRU flight is only seasonal. Whilst it may make sense t
40 WorldTraveler : How about the announcement is that TAM is going to join Skyteam and become a DL partner? They already have a partnership w/ AF. TAM has said before it
41 LipeGIG : I don't believe a new destination as MVD or ASU, but CNF seems to be very good for a tag from GRU or GIG (despite AA that keep using JJ services, DL
42 BigGSFO : TAM is joining Skyteam? Did I sleep through another announcement?
43 LipeGIG : Some news: American Airlines will change the timetable for their nowadays daily-light flight MIA-GRU (AA929/AA930). This flight will now run during th
44 N600RR : IINM, all SkyTeam carrier club/lounge members have reciprocal access -- if that's what you mean... Anyone know if these DL flights will be codeshared
45 Hardiwv : Tks for the info, Felipe. Very interesting. It will certainly help to boost JJ and DL day-light flights. I know CO flights to GRU and GIG also have a
46 WorldTraveler : I didn’t say that TAM would join Skyteam, just raising the possibility that could be the announcement. I don’t see a 764 upgrade announcement as b
47 MAH4546 : AA might know something we don't with this change. Something like maybe they got new frequencies. The loads on the MIA-GRU flight were pretty bad. Ra
48 Brasuca : Sudden huge increase of flights + transfer of flights from CGH to GRU + VARIG slots rights secured up + no major exapansion at all = magic at GRU?! We
49 WorldTraveler : Hopefully, Brasil will BENEFIT rather than be harmed by the demise of Varig. Varig sat on a lot of valuable route assets which could be better deploye
50 C010T3 : That's why ANAC has started to restrain new frequencies to GRU.
51 WorldTraveler : I'm sure DL and AA could help alleviate the congestion at GRU with some nonstop flights to other parts of Brasil.
52 Hardiwv : Correct. With the demise of RG there are plenty of slots in GRU in peak times. You are right, so here is DL reissued schedule for Brazil as of Decemb
53 WorldTraveler : You can do one last dance or have one more meeting before heading to the airport with their new schedule. DL serves more cities on its 9.30 - 10 am co
54 DAL767400ER : Thanks for the info, simply makes more sense that way as it allows DL to increase plane utilization big time on their South America ops.
55 Hardiwv : You are correct, tks for the information. The only negative point of the 7am arrival is that immigration is a lot more crowded in ATL as compared to
56 Panamair : Actually, the 7am arrival time from GRU is not too bad as GIG/EZE/SCL arrivals are bunched more tightly together. GRU has to contend with the UIO/GYE
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