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Boeing B797? Any Comments?  
User currently offlineA390 From South Africa, joined Sep 2005, 204 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15790 times:

Hi all,

I just came across this article. What do you all think?

http://www.newtechspy.com/articles06/boeing797.html

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3493 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15790 times:

Quoting A390 (Thread starter):
Hi all,

I just came across this article. What do you all think?

http://www.newtechspy.com/articles06/boeing797.html

In a word; bullshit.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineCobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1003 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15756 times:

I think this was already posted.

User currently offlineStarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1122 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15748 times:

In another word: OLD

This rumor with pictures has been bandied about for years, since Boeing abandoned the 747x.

Boeing is developing the 747-8. When Y3 comes along, then we can talk.



Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineAutoThrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1546 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15679 times:

Funny how things can change... this design was interesting altough not ready for this Times.
It would have been sure a efficient Aircraft, but with more problems in Airports then the A380.
Passenger in the middle would be cramped  crowded  and IMO it was to big.
However not only Airbus did mistakes with designs as this clearly shows.



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlineViv From Ireland, joined May 2005, 3142 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15633 times:

Blended wing research is nothing new.

Don't expect to fly in such a passenger aircraft any time soon.

[Edited 2006-08-10 11:56:24]


Nikon D700, Nikkor 80-400, Fuji X Pro 1, Fujinon 35 f/1.4, Fujinon 18 f/2
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 847 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15620 times:

OMG!!

Look at those winglets on 797!!

Must be 4-5 meters high....

Maybe the BWB/797 will be a reality in 15-20 years IYAM.

Micke//SWE  Smile



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 15228 times:

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 4):
but with more problems in Airports then the A380.
Passenger in the middle would be cramped and IMO it was to big.

none of those is a given at all.

These designs are from the 1990s, but Boeing is doing wind tunnel research in conjunction with NASA/Langley and recent announced that the results will lead to design studies. Cant remember exactly but I think the number was 40% more efficient.

Here is one I have had since Clinton was pres.

Big version: Width: 650 Height: 432 File size: 48kb



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineFirennice From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 15145 times:

No doubt they play with the ideas. You allways have engineers whose job is to sit in corners and play with obscure ideas. Eventually they come true like the composite barrells on the 787. Engineers allways want something bigger, faster, stronger, not allways what is practical, cost effective or needed.

Kind of like the 'concept car' at autoshows. But Boeing sales/marketing forcast the need for such planes. Then the 'rubber hits the road' and the they get told.... "a 1000 seat would really be 750 (comfortably) and after the A380 and Boeings large planes we might sell 100-300 ...break even at 200...too much of a risk. Thank you engineer play with your next project..." Perhaps a plane that goes faster


User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 15036 times:

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 4):
Funny how things can change

What can change?

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 4):
However not only Airbus did mistakes with designs as this clearly shows.

This is not even a design yet. It's merely a concept. There are tons of aircraft concept out there. Most of them look unconventional. Boeing is not immune from design failure such as the sonic cruiser, but this is not one of them.

On a side note, what kind of efficiency gain from a radical design do you guys think that will allow these kind of unconventional design to be actually used. For example how much efficiency gain does this blended wing design need to have in order to force major airports reconstructions.

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineJpax From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 14973 times:

I love the quote at the bottom, "This is a great advancement in commercial aviation and a huge win for boeing"

Another huge win for Boeing, in your face, Airbus! Fear the old-news paper airplane.  Wink


User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14823 times:

Quoting Firennice (Reply 8):
we might sell 100-300 ...break even at 200...too much of a risk

1) This has been ongoing and is still an active project that has picked up steam now that the wind tunnel research was far better than expected
2) Freight implications are major here



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14778 times:

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 9):
This is not even a design yet. It's merely a concept

Do you not need a design to test it in the Langley wind tunnel for weeks?

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 9):
For example how much efficiency gain does this blended wing design need to have in order to force major airports reconstructions.

Like I said above, the gain shocked NASA and Boeing last just last year after wind tunnel tests concluded. And I do remember seeing an article that talked about the fact that this design fits in the box and can use existing ramps and jetways. This was before the 380 too.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 14755 times:

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 12):
Do you not need a design to test it in the Langley wind tunnel for weeks?

I was referring to the supposedly 797's airplane design. Not the blended wing aerodynamic design in general.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 12):
Like I said above, the gain shocked NASA and Boeing last just last year after wind tunnel tests concluded. And I do remember seeing an article that talked about the fact that this design fits in the box and can use existing ramps and jetways. This was before the 380 too.

That would be interesting. How about the taxiway? One of the problem that 380 faces is the taxiway width, since it can basically land on 747 capable runways.

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 14655 times:

The design in DeltaDC9's pic looks a bit like the B-2 from the side.

User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 14602 times:
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I say it looks great and it'd be an incredible leap forward when the tech is ready.

Passengers don't need a window if they have a view of the outside one way or another, and the airplane's inherent efficiencies are impossible to ignore. We're a decade away from an airframe OEM taking this plunge, perhaps less.

The article is fantasy/BS for now, but the future is coming.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 14519 times:

I, too, like the idea of a blended-wing design. Very futuristic, and if, as it seems, it makes economic sense, then why not? Here's hoping.

User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 14258 times:

To me, the greatest thing about a design like this is how it is easily adaptable to a variable number of engines.

Adding a third engine to a 777 or 787 is impossible. Having a BWB start with two engines then adding a third for a strech or ER version would be a snap. Adding a forth for a second strech or ULR also easy. It could be the shape that enables a single wide-body family from 200-600 passangers. 1000 will never happen.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineJmhluv2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 14119 times:

Couple questions I would have are, how exactly would such an aircraft be evacuated in an emergency, I believe most F/A are trained to evacuate an airplane in 90 seconds, 1000 passengers in 90 seconds, yeah right.
Second, I would wonder where you would park such an airplane, thing looks like its like 500 feet wide, yikes, think there would be a problem in Atlanta at concourse T, probably take up three or four gates.
Its fun to imagine such an interesting looking airplane, but I think we are decades away from being ready for a "797".

JMH-Pensacola, Florida!


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 847 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14004 times:

Airbus better hurry up building the 380-900, but the -900 wont take 1000 pax, or will it??

Oh well, time will tell.....

Micke/SWE  wave 



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13874 times:

Quoting Jmhluv2fly (Reply 18):
1000 passengers in 90 seconds, yeah right.

The A-380 did over 850, so is 150 more really that much?

Here is more info from the horses mouth. The last link has an actual flying prototype pictured. Like I siad, it is not just an idea they are kicking around. NASA, Boeing Phantom Works, the USAF, and others are all involved.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/...factsheets/FS-2003-11-81-LaRC.html

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/improvingflight/bwb_main.html

http://www.boeing.com/phantom/news/2006/q2/060504b_nr.html

http://www.nasaexplores.com/show2_articlea.php?id=01-007

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/x-48.html



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13855 times:

Every company plays with ideas like this. This is nothing new. However, I seriously doubt that since a 550 seat airplane is struggling to make it in the market, a 1000 pax aircraft would have a very difficult time.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineDeltadude From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13813 times:

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 13):
That would be interesting. How about the taxiway? One of the problem that 380 faces is the taxiway width, since it can basically land on 747 capable runways.

Why can't the wings fold after landing? You'd only need to fold the outer 30 feet or so. That's what jets on aircraft carriers do.

Don't get complacent guys. Boeing is making tons of money these days and with fuel prices the way they are I would not be surpised if you see some giant leeps in aircraft technology very, very soon. The twin engine tube won't last forever.


User currently offlinePolymerPlane From United States of America, joined May 2006, 991 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 13714 times:

Quoting Deltadude (Reply 22):
Why can't the wings fold after landing? You'd only need to fold the outer 30 feet or so. That's what jets on aircraft carriers do.

That will only happen if the real estate of the airport is very expensive. Very good example is B777, nobody has ordered 777 with wing fold option. Because it's probably cheaper to renovate the airport than carring the several hundred pounds of extra weight on the aircraft everyday.

But again, airport modification will only happen if the benefits of the BWB are significantly higher than the cost of the work.

Quoting Deltadude (Reply 22):
Don't get complacent guys. Boeing is making tons of money these days and with fuel prices the way they are I would not be surpised if you see some giant leeps in aircraft technology very, very soon. The twin engine tube won't last forever.

I don't know about this. Research is not solely based on how much money it's poured in. The fact is that the aerodynamic of tube and twin is very well studied now, and the most efficient design can be easily achieved, while with the other design, it still takes a long time to fully understand the aerodynamics.

Cheers,
PP



One day there will be 100% polymer plane
User currently offlineDeltaDC9 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 2844 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 13621 times:

They have been researching BWB for half a century, and this R&D push has been going on for almost 15 years. It is more about market need and acceptance than the technology, which is well understood at this point.

Boeing has stated that they want to field a BWB before mid-century.



Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
25 Post contains images Thebry : Hah! Maybe Airbus was on to something with the re-branding of the A350 to the A350XWB. Maybe this blended wing thing could become the successor to the
26 Deltadude : You think? Dunno, that sounds like BS to me.
27 PolymerPlane : What? what's bullshit? nobody orders B777 with the wing fold option and it's a fact. If there is then please show me. Cheers, PP
28 RootsAir : I thought 797 was to be an eventual 737 replacement. Correct me if I'm wrong !
29 Post contains images Areopagus : My friends, I thought you might like to see this news item I scanned from the June 1996 issue of Popular Science.
30 Parapente : "Here is more info from the horses mouth. The last link has an actual flying prototype pictured. Like I siad, it is not just an idea they are kicking
31 DeltaDC9 : About the wingspan, why are you guys assuming it will be greater than the 380? Now those are seriously big wings, and yet we are accomodating them.
32 FlyGuyDTW : I did hear from an insider that the 797(number given but not this design pictured) is a replacement being designed with 787 technology to replace the
33 Post contains images Zippyjet : Folks, this one circulates throughout the world wide web like the Bonzai Kittens and the lets tax your e-mail/Internet. It would be cool, if this were
34 Jwenting : which is actually a current EU proposal (and of course my internet access is already taxed as I pay VAT on it).
35 Post contains images Zippyjet : Which is why I sure as hell don't want the USA to become part of the proposed by the New World Order Elite North American Union. More ways for us to
36 Post contains links Rampart : Because it's appropriate again, I quote myself from an archived thread (same exact topic, but last April...) "You'd be daft to think that any airline
37 Socal : Cheasy article...!!!
38 Post contains links Planemaker : Now if I am not mistaken, Clinton left the White House in 2001... so you are a bit confused on that one since that picture was first published TWO ye
39 Post contains links Lehpron : People that know of aviation want 737 to be replaced by a 797, even "respected" editors of publications want it, but Boeing has not set anything in s
40 KC135TopBoom : BWB is nothing new. Both the 1950s technoligy SR-71 and the 1970s technoligy F-16 designs are actually BWB airplanes. They just don't carry any passen
41 Lehpron : thank you for that, I hope people can understand that blending the wing and body is just a 3D fillet that reduces the drag interaction between the tw
42 Planemaker : Certainly the launch time frame of the 737 replacement is going to influence the 737 replacement final design but, currently, it is more than just nu
43 Lehpron : You did not get my point as you focused on image rather than definition, i.e. the math. A high aspect ratio wing can be anything from an ellipse to a
44 Planemaker : No, the basic "math" is already well known. No, the 737RS shape will be a tube and wing aircraft. Boeing is looking at is single aisle or twin aisle,
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