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DL Could Fly SLC-Europe In 2007  
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6578 posts, RR: 24
Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5857 times:

DL is now saying that they could fly SLC-Europe in 2007, if SLC airport authorities provided the right incentives in the next few months.

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_4159944

I have doubts about this route, but I guess if LH can make PDX-FRA work, then maybe SLC-CDG can work. Particularly, since SLC is a good sized hub whereas PDX is not.

Another interesting quote from the article:

Quote:
"For example, a city we will be announcing in three weeks has given [Delta] $6 million," Hauenstein said. "It's not an insignificant amount of money. But it's high-risk, high-reward for everybody."

I wonder who this mystery city is???

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMbm3 From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 839 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5799 times:
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I would have to say CDG or AMS to make the Skyteam connections work best for them.


Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlineDelta4eva From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5799 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
I wonder who this mystery city is???

Sounds to me like it could be a FLL-Europe flight? Or it could be a new city in
Europe trying to woo DL with a flight from JFK or ATL.



FLY DELTA JETS
User currently offlineDALelite From Switzerland, joined Jun 2000, 1770 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5731 times:

i doubt that this will work.

DALelite



They loved to fly and it showed..
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5711 times:

Could DL Fly SLC-Europe in 2007? Of course they could. DL could fly SLC-Europe now if they felt there was a market profitable enough to enter. What difference will 2007 make? I am still skeptical a SLC-Europe flight be a winner and do not think just because it is to a Skyteam hub that it will be a success.

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5615 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
I have doubts about this route, but I guess if LH can make PDX-FRA work, then maybe SLC-CDG can work. Particularly, since SLC is a good sized hub whereas PDX is not.

I really don't think this is the best network planning on the part of DL at this time. PDX is a bigger market than SLC, even though SLC is a much bigger hub and many more connecting flights. Both PDX and SLC are neck and neck as for O&D passengers in 2005 coming in at about 10-11 million each. SLC is by and large the hub that it is due more to it's geographical location in the middle of the 11 western US states than its market size. The Wasatch Front has about 2 million people SLC can draw from for O&D flights, where as the Willamette Valley is closer to 3.5 million. If PDX were a larger focus operation for DL, it would be a much better choice for a Paris CDG flight than SLC.
The other big factor against SLC is the obsolete nature of its terminal. It can handle a few flights to Mexico and the trans-border operations to Canada, but it isn't set-up for flights to Europe. I would have to advise a no-go on this one to DL.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3466 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5567 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 5):

I really don't think this is the best network planning on the part of DL at this time. PDX is a bigger market than SLC, even though SLC is a much bigger hub and many more connecting flights. Both PDX and SLC are neck and neck as for O&D passengers in 2005 coming in at about 10-11 million each. SLC is by and large the hub that it is due more to it's geographical location in the middle of the 11 western US states than its market size. The Wasatch Front has about 2 million people SLC can draw from for O&D flights, where as the Willamette Valley is closer to 3.5 million. If PDX were a larger focus operation for DL, it would be a much better choice for a Paris CDG flight than SLC.
The other big factor against SLC is the obsolete nature of its terminal. It can handle a few flights to Mexico and the trans-border operations to Canada, but it isn't set-up for flights to Europe. I would have to advise a no-go on this one to DL.

I disagree that a SLC-Europe (most likely CDG) would be unsuccessful. A 767-300 would be perfect for the route and would allow passengers in smaller markets without nonstop service to CVG, JFK, and ATL (GEG, PSC, EUG, BIL, HLN, FCA, LGB, MFD, PSP, YYJ, YQL, YEG, etc.) an easy connection to Europe. In the Top 200 US O&D markets, SLC had a healthy 10 million annual passengers, more than STL, RDU, and PIT) all of whom have had European service, and with and RDU not having the feed of 350 daily flights. The only routes I think would work would be LGW or CDG, the latter being most likely. I think a lot of DL fliers or fliers in general would rather go SNA/ONT-SLC-CDG than SNA/ONT-ATL-CDG, for example, and I think that DL will bank on that.

Jeremy


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5477 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):
I think a lot of DL fliers or fliers in general would rather go SNA/ONT-SLC-CDG

Actually, SNA/ONT DL flyers will go AF LAX-CDG....


User currently offlineMastaHanky From United States of America, joined May 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5473 times:

I'm sure an airline would be happy to fly SLC-ADD with four daily 747s if you provide a big enough incentive.  Big grin

While I'm still a bit unsure of the feasibility of this route, I do hope it comes to fruitition, as I would use it several times a year.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5464 times:

SLC-CDG is the only realistic route, because DL would have hub feed at both ends, which would contribute most of the pax for the flight. With SLC at around 350 daily flights now, the feed is definitely there, though obviously not all flights are available for connections.

Quoting Delta4eva (Reply 2):
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
I wonder who this mystery city is???
Sounds to me like it could be a FLL-Europe flight? Or it could be a new city in
Europe trying to woo DL with a flight from JFK or ATL.

Likely the latter, given that DL says that they'll announce a new city, and for $6 million, it'd have to be a new international destination, with Europe being the obvious favorite, although who knows, it could be in Africa as well, with them soon adding DKR, JNB and ACC to their list. Perhaps another city now saw that DL is finally serious about Africa as well and is saying, "Hey why not, maybe they'll come here too if we offer them incentives."


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5369 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):
I disagree that a SLC-Europe (most likely CDG) would be unsuccessful. A 767-300 would be perfect for the route and would allow passengers in smaller markets without nonstop service to CVG, JFK, and ATL (GEG, PSC, EUG, BIL, HLN, FCA, LGB, MFD, PSP, YYJ, YQL, YEG, etc.) an easy connection to Europe. In the Top 200 US O&D markets, SLC had a healthy 10 million annual passengers, more than STL, RDU, and PIT) all of whom have had European service, and with and RDU not having the feed of 350 daily flights. The only routes I think would work would be LGW or CDG, the latter being most likely. I think a lot of DL fliers or fliers in general would rather go SNA/ONT-SLC-CDG than SNA/ONT-ATL-CDG, for example, and I think that DL will bank on that.

While your logistics make sense Jeremy, the O&D numbers are big in determining how viable such a new service would be as well as the overall size of the market as I eluded to in my post above. SLC will get flights to CDG and LGW or maybe even FRA, but not until more like 2010 or there after. PIT, STL , RDU & CLT might not have stellar O&D numbers but all of them have larger markets in which to draw O&D numbers.
Again the terminal here is very small and cramped in relation to the number of passengers now served, and also the runways at SLC do face weight restrictions more often than they should to deal with one of these flights with a fully fueled and laden 763ER. One runway needs to at least be extended from its present 12,000' to at least 15,000' before such flights are truly viable from here in relation to physical facilities. For it's size and passenger load, I can't give SLC very high marks for the later right now. Not one I would like to taught as being worthy of overseas service.

P.S. I do appreciate your mentioning year around service to YYJ and new service to YQL in the logistics of your post.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5272 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 7):
Actually, SNA/ONT DL flyers will go AF LAX-CDG

Why would anyone way out in Ontario want to travel to LAX if they didn't have to? There are times of the day when driving in from San Diego takes less time.

When I used to fly out of the L.A. area over a decade ago, my preferred way to Europe was via DEN on CO's flight to LGW. Even though I lived closer to LAX in terms of miles, I could get to BUR, parked and checked-in in far less time. And that was in the days of relatively easy security checks.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2629 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5239 times:

I actually think DL (if it had capable craft) would be better off flying to Europe from SLC. That is just my opinion, chew me up if desired...


B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6756 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5128 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):
In the Top 200 US O&D markets, SLC had a healthy 10 million annual passengers, more than STL, RDU, and PIT) all of whom have had European service, and with and RDU not having the feed of 350 daily flights.

Look at it this way.. if AA dropped the RDU-LGW service.. Delta could just as easily pick it up and use the RDU flights as connections.. so that not only woudl they get the subsidies, but they could also use it for connecting opportunities..

my point being that even though RDU, STL, and PIT may have less people living int them.. they all have the same capabilities of pulling connecting traffic that SLC has.. regardless of it being a hub or not. Should AA decide, they could do STL-Europe.. US could do PIT-Europe.. both of those have enough draw.. RDU-Europe can be done with subsidies, but RDU also has enough connecting oppoortunities (should they be times right) to fill at leas a 767..


Oh.. and BTW.. RDU has a O&D pull last year of 9.4 Million.. not that much of a difference..

Anyway.. that's all I got to say..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5032 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 13):
Oh.. and BTW.. RDU has a O&D pull last year of 9.4 Million.. not that much of a difference..

Actually the big difference is that RDU has a greater population to draw from, and SLC is way out in the middle of nowhere as I've said. SLC would need to be at DEN or PHX numbers to be a viable port to Europe.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17348 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5004 times:

On a related note, did anyone see DL's schedule updates in the SSIM this morning? Interesting stuff!


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3466 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4924 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 14):
Actually the big difference is that RDU has a greater population to draw from, and SLC is way out in the middle of nowhere as I've said. SLC would need to be at DEN or PHX numbers to be a viable port to Europe.

No it doesn't. O&D constitutes the number of people who use the airport yearly as a originating or terminating point, where SLC has 10.4 million passengers. The area around DEN or any other city is included in O&D, it's the number that uses the airport. While DEN or PHX have a larger population, it means nothing about O&D. MSP is smaller than DTW but generates more O&D yearly. O&D is independent of population for the most part.

Jeremy


User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4869 times:

Well, if it's gonna go to CDG, I might well be using this route about three times a year until 2008... don't know if I should be happy about it, I usually prefer AF's longhaul economy product over DL's.... on a side note, are there any news about Delta's talks with Panasonic about fitting PTVs in their 763ERs? Are we by the way talking about a daily service here ore more about something in the 3/7-range?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
On a related note, did anyone see DL's schedule updates in the SSIM this morning? Interesting stuff!

No, but what are they saying there?



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17348 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4774 times:

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 17):
No, but what are they saying there?

I don't know if I should say but I would assume there'll be an announcement some time today. I don't work for DL or anything but I want to make sure I'm not announcing anything that's confidential. It was in the OAG ssim today though...



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

Pittsburgh has been agressively talking to every potential airline about restarting Europe service. US stated recently that they would need a yearly revenue guarantee of about $11M to consider a 757 to Europe. If you read all of the Pittsburgh press take on all of this, it appears the city business community has the means and motivation to provide financial support to whoever offers the service. I just wonder if this new Delta city is Pittsburgh. Of course, an opposing view would be that if DL did offer the service, US would likely counter with a flight. That could significantly reduce any chance of their success, since most of the service would be O&D.

User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3466 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4650 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
I don't know if I should say but I would assume there'll be an announcement some time today. I don't work for DL or anything but I want to make sure I'm not announcing anything that's confidential. It was in the OAG ssim today though...

If they're in the schedule then it's not confidential. What does it say?

Jeremy


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17348 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4584 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 20):
If they're in the schedule then it's not confidential. What does it say?

2x daily SFO/OAK/SMF/LAS-LAX on RJs plus some Mexico stuff.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4485 times:

Delta is very focused on building service to Europe from (1) its mega hub at ATL where DL can make just about any reasoable route work successfully and (2) its recently rediscovered JFK gateway city which serves one of the biggest and most important O&D markets in the world and provides some connecting service, and DL will maintain its transatlantic service out of CVG which handles a lot of connecting traffic in the Delta system. There is simply no need to open up a route from SLC to Europe.

Back in the early 1990s, when Delta first took over the Pan Am transatlantic route system, most expected Delta to open up a SLC-FRA route....at the time, FRA was a major DL city that offered connecting service. DL operated from LAX, DFW, even MCO to FRA.......but a SLC-FRA route never materialized eventhough, back then, SLC was a major DL hub. True, that was then, and this is now, but I dont think that so much has changed. SLC makes a good regional hub for DL, allowing coverage of the Western states (no pun intended), but a European connection is not required. Pax from west coast cities can already easily fly DL to Europe via CVG, ATL and in many cases JFK.

Eventually, if DL continues to build the SLC hub and add more service, a transatlantic route may come.......it would, of course, be SLC-CDG to allow for connections through Europe on SkyTeam flights.


User currently offlineOakjam From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4484 times:

Dear Vega:

Please no more PIT cheerleaders. Let's remember how Pittsburgh is 100x better than NY LOL :-P You know when I think of Vacationing....I forget about the statue of liberty and think about visiting the steel mills of Western PA. Huh!!!!!!

Reality is that DL will either beef up LAX a little more with either RJ or 737 service to other California cities to connect the dots better. I am hoping that DL could consider OAK in future plans maybe trans-pacific flights or European service as OAK will grow in the next few years with a new terminal (there are talks of a T3) and extension or T1(But all of that is a dream of mine).


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4448 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Thread starter):
Quote:
"For example, a city we will be announcing in three weeks has given [Delta] $6 million," Hauenstein said. "It's not an insignificant amount of money. But it's high-risk, high-reward for everybody."

I wonder who this mystery city is???

It's Pisa. Bank on it. I think it is out of JFK...


25 Post contains images CentPIT : HAHAHAHAHA....would almost be funny if your facts were straight! The steel mills are no longer in Pittsburgh smart a**! Take a look... I doubt US wou
26 Post contains images Laxatljfkcvg : TOOOOOO LONGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JETTTTTT LAGGGGGGGGGG
27 MCOflyer : What their ops @ SAN? I know they fly to ATL, LAX,SLC,CVG,and JFK. Are they adding flts to lax? I'm betting on SLC-CDG. MCOflyer
28 Positiverate : Trust me. The next big announcement is JFK-Pisa...
29 Bohica : I wonder if the Mormon Church has anything to do with it. They have 11 temples in Europe and 3 in Africa as well as others worldwide. I would think a
30 Vega : If you examine my history of postings you will note how invalid your assumption is identifying me as a PIT cheerleader. My original comment that PIT
31 Delta4eva : I believe you, but it seems like it would be more logical to fly JFK-Florence.
32 MastaHanky : Agreed on both points. That'd be a first TATL for either city, wouldn't it?
33 MaverickM11 : No change there...just the intra California stuff and 2 or 3 Mexican destinations.
34 Positiverate : Florence wouldn't put the cash up.
35 Post contains links Stl1326 : Sorry I can't resist, but the St. Louis city population is 352,572 and the MSA of St. Louis is 2,786,728. Got my info from www.econdev.stlrcga.org.
36 DLPMMM : Please correct me if I am wrong. I thought the EU made such service subsidies illegal.
37 ERJ170 : Well then, with all this population.. sounds to me like ya'll need to pull a RDU and bring a subsidy to the table. Quit tripping. If you want the flig
38 TokyoNarita : I am reading the article...but I am wondering if there is any problem with Delta's B767-300ER's performance on 90F-100F temp in the middle of the summ
39 A330323X : Whether or not the city is PIT, I don't know. But if it is, that would just again go to show how delusional the PIT cheerleaders are who maintain tha
40 SLCUT2777 : That is my entire point is that in order to effectively operate this service SLC needs to increase the length of one of their runways from 12,000' to
41 Vega : You're preaching to the Choir. Further I strongly object to your insinuation that I take Drugs. If you can't be civil in your reply - take it somepla
42 BHMNONREV : I would guess the same, but having a GSK in the Raleigh-Durham area with a HQ located near LGW does not hurt their cause at all. I don't think there
43 DAL767400ER : The EU is not very clear on that. They prohibit subsidies that are only being offered to one carrier but not others (e.g. Ryanair at LBC), or in the
44 ElmoTheHobo : ... nor do they have a runway anywhere near long enough to handle a 767. The biggest scheduled aircraft Florence sees is a 737, and that is pushing i
45 WorldTraveler : You could argue that about a lot of hubs…why does Texas need service to Europe. It is a much smaller O&D than most Eastern gateways but they still
46 B4real : It was late. I meant: I actually think DL (if it had capable craft) would be better off flying to Asia from SLC. That is just my opinion, chew me up
47 Slcdeltarumd11 : no way LAX is a zoo i would always fly out of Orange county, Burbank, Long Beach, San Diego or Ontario instead and connect. The parking is easier, le
48 SESGDL : A 763ER from SLC-CDG could easily make it off the 12,000' runway at SLC, only when it got close to 100 degrees would there be a problem, and a fuel s
49 CentPIT : " target=_blank>www.econdev.stlrcga.org. Ok, sorry, Pittsburgh is larger than SLC and RDU by a bit though! I meant if DL adds PIT-Europe. We all know
50 Pdxintl : Delta should pursue a flight to Europe only if CDG is the chosen airport. While the O&D numbers for SLC are not very strong, Delta has such a strong p
51 ERJ170 : Population being what it is.. the question isn't how many people live in the area.. but how many people are gonna travel.. and how many businesses ar
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