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MIA May Close 'A' To Speed Up North Terminal Project  
User currently offlineDB777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 885 posts, RR: 43
Posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4441 times:
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http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/15237748.htm

The airport is considering closing Concourse A's 15 gates next year temporarily, after the new South Terminal opens, to speed up construction of the remaining North Terminal project. They believe the closure will save two years and $200 million.

Concourses C and D would remain open and airlines now using A will be forced to use gates on E and F. If AA needs more gates they'll have to expand to F which means connecting passengers will have to go through security again. Grupo Taca is moving to the new South Terminal.

Don


Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 272 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4422 times:

This is a real possibility or so we are told, just after AAL getting some breathing room with A for 2007 because others are moving over to J like TACA. and the new AAL Admirals Club has just opened on A. Perhaps AAL closed the club at the front of E too soon? Actually, security wanted the clubs inside the check points, or so I am told. You know the D/E connector, the hallway that gets so hot, without good air? Losing E-2 and F-1 or 3, they could run another temporary thing like that from E over to F to alleviate the need to go back through security.

However, no matter how you slice the bologna, the whole thing remains one grand mess, and, now we are talking about closing one of the two actually new and completed sections of the project in order to get on with the really horrible middle part of it between A and D. I just wish we would set some explosive charges at C and blow it up.

This is embarrassing, even for (Miami) Dade County. Being a old native purist, I like the original, named for Major Dade, ambushed and massacred by the Seminoles near Bushnell, FL in the 1830s or so. Kind of like the massacre that has become the North Terminal Project. Maybe we should give the property back to the Seminoles, declare it a reservation and put a casino in it and all flights are international since it will be a sovereign nation.

Just teasing, of course.


User currently offlineCoyoteguy From Mexico, joined Oct 2001, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4381 times:

This MIA mess just gets more and more incredible every week. It's the never ending nightmare of those of us who have to fly in and out frequently.

User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2035 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4332 times:

Just par for the course in the epic tale that is Miami's North Terminal construction project. This is, unfortunately, the speed of business in South Florida, where family connections and shady dealings are put ahead of construction timelines.

I passed through MIA last month and I was amazed to see how run-down the "new" Concourse A. It's barely a decade old (I believe it opened in 1995, correct?) and the concrete exterior is full of cracks, the ceilings are dripping, and there are water spots all over the torn carpet. The place looked like Heathrow, and that's not a compliment! Will the entire North Terminal look like that in 2016?

I honestly cannot believe American puts up with this. The MIA hub must be more of a goldmine than I thought if they're willing to accept a five-year delay (which now seems poised to stretch into a ten-year delay) on their new terminal.

Moving ops back into Concourse F would be a nightmare. Right now the ONLY redeeming fact about American's MIA operation is that you don't have to re-clear security. If they move into F, I hope they'll build a temporary connector like they've done between D and E.


User currently offlineCoyoteguy From Mexico, joined Oct 2001, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4326 times:

Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 3):
Will the entire North Terminal look like that in 2016?

Probably, and that could be the plan.... because that will give the same crooks the chance to build us another new airport in 20 years from now  Smile


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32779 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4310 times:

Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 3):
I honestly cannot believe American puts up with this. The MIA hub must be more of a goldmine than I thought if they're willing to accept a five-year delay (which now seems poised to stretch into a ten-year delay) on their new terminal.

Puts up with it? American Airlines caused the mess. They were in charge of construction until MIA revoked their position as manager of the product to fix the mess they made.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the airport, the MIA-managed South Concourse is within its budget and will open in February (about six months delayed due to a last minute change to a new fibre optics system).



a.
User currently offlineAAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 272 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4310 times:

At least I will be retired by 2016.

But then, having to deal with all of it standing in longer customer lines and sitting in back of the bus heading on long vacations east and south, or family visits north and west, that's if we're all still here and not yet all forcibly converted to Islam.

I wish it were all a bad dream.

I must admit I do not like how dark and black "A" seems, let alone the leaks. I felt a drop of water on my shoulder last week while waiting for a heavy weather and lightning delay (nobody on the jetways,, etc.) and it was indeed rain. A maintenance worker who did not habla ingles walked up, smiled, said something like "hola capitano" and put a bucket down where I'd been standing.

Miami hasn't come far from the floods on the 36th Street ramp when I was a kid back in ancient times.

They will put a bridge between E and F like D and E if they have to.

All aboard!


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4213 times:

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 6):
They will put a bridge between E and F like D and E if they have to.

If AA starts using the high E gates again, they also ought to consolidate the security checkpoint in order to avoid having to exit security to reach the E satellite. On the bright side, this will probably eliminate the long walk through the maze between D and A, as well as the extremely long walk from A to the FIS at Concourse E when the FIS at the former is closed. I can't believe they want to keep C open, though; that place makes most bus stations look nice.


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4170 times:

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 1):
Losing E-2 and F-1 or 3, they could run another temporary thing like that from E over to F to alleviate the need to go back through security.

Losing F-1 or F-3? I have NEVER seen a single digit F-gate in use (in fairness, I don't fly from Miami all that often, and haven't at all in the past year or so...basically since UAL turned South Florida into an all-Ted operation)



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4124 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 8):
I have NEVER seen a single digit F-gate in use

There's no F1 or F2. F3 exists, but it's kinda' hidden and you have to backtrack to get to it. We used it quite often back in 1996/1997 for UA's MIA-MEX flight. Don't know if anyone uses it now.

The only gates I somewhat liked were F5-7-9 as they were more private and it was easier to control and board passengers. F6 and 8 look like bad Greyhound bus stops and the bathroom between them is shameful and should be closed. The F terminal is a disgrace and no one should have to operate from it; only C is worse. A co-worker claims to have been inside the new South terminal and says that it's very nice, very modern and very comfortable for staff. We'll see.


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4469 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4115 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
Meanwhile, on the other side of the airport, the MIA-managed South Concourse is within its budget and will open in February (about six months delayed due to a last minute change to a new fibre optics system).

Yeah, and it will probably be horribly underused.

From the article:

"Airlines such as Ted, Lufthansa and Air France will leave the Central Terminal for the new South Terminal, giving the airport plenty of open gates."


6 Ted flights, 1 AF and 1 LH flight per day. Lots of open gates due to their move to the new South Terminal!

I still say... move SkyTeam into the new South Terminal. DL, CO and NW (along with international partners AF, AM and AZ) have shown much more of a commitment to MIA than the Star Aliance carriers (particularly UA and US).


User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4097 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 10):
6 Ted flights, 1 AF and 1 LH flight per day. Lots of open gates due to their move to the new South Terminal!

I could be wrong on this, but I believe that both Star and Sky will operate out of the South terminal as the County is trying to lure LCCs into the cheaper "Central Terminal" (just a catchy phrase for the dilapidated old gates)---MAH4546--help us on this one; I know you are the MIA guru! Even if I'm incorrect and Sky is not there, the terminal will have a few more flights than 6 TED, 1 AF and 1 LH (AC, TA, US, e.g.).

Regardless, there has been a rumor circulating around UA MIA forever that Star had committed to 35 daily flights from the South terminal once it opens. I don't know the veracity of this, but there has been talk of some TED expansion as part of the minimum required flights. Again, all rumor.


User currently offlineDb777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 885 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4069 times:
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Quoting N62NA (Reply 10):
Yeah, and it will probably be horribly underused. From the article: "Airlines such as Ted, Lufthansa and Air France will leave the Central Terminal for the new South Terminal, giving the airport plenty of open gates."

6 Ted flights, 1 AF and 1 LH flight per day. Lots of open gates due to their move to the new South Terminal!

I still say... move SkyTeam into the new South Terminal. DL, CO and NW (along with international partners AF, AM and AZ) have shown much more of a commitment to MIA than the Star Aliance carriers (particularly UA and US).

It won't be, and can't be, horribly underused because the feds won't staff the FIS unless a decent level of arriving international passengers are coming through the FIS. A variety of non-Star Alliance and non-SkyTeam carriers will also be using gates on Concourse J. As it is now the feds only want to staff the FIS for 8 hours a day, which will cause split operations for some airlines (international arrival flights outside the 8-hour window will have to use E or F, fights inside the window use J), which is hell for the meeters and greeters and others.

SkyTeam airlines will be using the South Terminal but gates on Concourse H. Most of them are worthless for the South Terminal FIS because DL, NW and CO don't have any international passengers.


Don



Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
User currently offlineAAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 272 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4048 times:

Mexicana hangs out at the backtrack F-3. Ualscr is right, there isn't an F-1. Maybe I remember one ealier before PAA took over NAL and before UAL. The mind plays funny tricks at this advanced age.

I haven't been over there or even to G or H in so long except to glance over from E or taxiing to 27 from time to time that I'm out of touch. I've heard the same rumor, though, from probably different sources, about UAL "returning" with a bigger TED commitment than the two trips per day to each of the three hubs and, perhaps, one or two mainline or TED trips to the California bases. MAH4546 has a fair point, though, that AAL certainly made its own bed with the Super A Project. Db777 is also right on regarding the FIS situation.

Do you guys know if it would be or is being discussed for the international metal there now to simply pull out of F en-mass and migrate to J, or is that the plan? My limited vision only sees as far as the color silver and I'm still trying to understand why A may go for two years and C isn't blown up?

I still propose that we give it back to the Seminoles.


User currently offlineDB777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 885 posts, RR: 43
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4012 times:
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There are no actual aircraft gates labeled as "1" at MIA that I can recall. While there are gate numbers with 1, they are all bus stations in the tunnels at the base of the concourse, such as A1, E1, F1, G1 and H1. That was the design plan and while some of them aren't used now they are there or were there at one time. C was the only concourse without a bus station due to its age and it was never extensively remodeled except for interior changes after Eastern died. Prior to that it was like a trip back to the 60's inside. The G and H bus stations were put in when the concourses were remodeled. I don't know if D still has one or not but it used to be there before construction started for the umpteenth time.

When J officially opens you should see virtually all of the carriers going there that first day.


Don



Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3992 times:

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 13):
The mind plays funny tricks at this advanced age.

LOL!!!! Look at it this way: the older, the wiser. Thanks for all the good valuable info you post here.

As a follow up to your last question re: international metal from F, will the FIS "cave" in concourse E close? What a sad and dreary place; it needs to go. So does the mystery Burger King in the E satellite (is it still there?). Actually, the entire E concourse must have been designed by Agatha Christie; there are so many little mystery offices that seem to serve no purpose, hallways to nowhere, etc., etc. Pack it up with C for the Seminoles!!


User currently offlineAAL0616 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 272 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3954 times:

I'm headed out there later for a trip, so if for some reason I end up out on outer E, which is doubtful for a 3:30 call, since as you might guess I am not associated with Avianca, who seem to own the satellite in the afternoon. The last time I rode the people mover out there was at least a year ago and I could swear that little orphan Burger King was still there.

Simply out of principle, and because the doc says I need to stay away from burgers, I haven't been to any BK, either, in quite a long time. I must confess, however, to grabbing dogs or wursts at O'Hare from time to time. Please don't tell anyone.

E reminds me of everything that was done for so long, in that the ceilings all seem so low giving you a cramped perspective, and it has that dark carpeting instead of terrazzo beneath you, which is why I think I like the new section of D so much. It is more open and brighter.

The reason I asked for confirmation about international consolidation at J is that with the possibility of an A temporary close, we are faced with a very serious gate issues, as if we did not already have one. We take ground gate holds very often upon arrival during the late afternoon bank, sometimes for more than a half hour. Losing A means British Airways must move, too. I'm thinking that the FIS shell game can accommodate a "full" schedule at J if A or, say, F, or even E go down as points of entry. It is hard to imagine the center of the facility not being a customs station since it has been/was the main one for so long. However, if it were me running the airport, my uneducated hunch would be to bunch international arrivals and departures into A and J, and free E for the flock of domestic or just Caribbean/Mexico silver metal and perhaps the likes of BWIA.

I would still surrender, turn the wasteland between A and D into a Seminole casino and abandon the project (just kidding). See you all next week.


User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3945 times:

Quoting DB777 (Reply 14):
There are no actual aircraft gates labeled as "1" at MIA that I can recall. While there are gate numbers with 1, they are all bus stations in the tunnels at the base of the concourse, such as A1, E1, F1, G1 and H1. That was the design plan and while some of them aren't used now they are there or were there at one time. C was the only concourse without a bus station due to its age and it was never extensively remodeled except for interior changes after Eastern died. Prior to that it was like a trip back to the 60's inside. The G and H bus stations were put in when the concourses were remodeled. I don't know if D still has one or not but it used to be there before construction started for the umpteenth time.

Thanks for this post, very interesting piece of MIA history. Thinking back to my days at UA, if you take the elevator right behind the F counter (south of the duty free store), go down to the ramp and make a hard right, you come to the beginning of the F concourse and a small room that looks as it may have been used as a bus station and could be F1. It's directly under F3 or F4 and there's an elevator there, although I don't remember where it takes you. I think G has a similar area, which Gulfstream/CO Connection used or perhaps still uses. I believe that gate is in fact G1, but I could be wrong.

Anyone out there have an idea as to what, if anything, will be done with the MIA Hotel?


User currently offlineSJUSXM From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3943 times:

While i would love to see AA back in the E satellite (its probably the only good place to take pictures in the whole airport, if they would ever open that darn hotel pool again!) it would be horrible to see A close, even for a short time. That terminal seems to be the nice.


Shane from DE (4)



AT7, ER3, ER4, ER5, CR7, E70, E75, F100, M82, M83, 722, 732, 738, 752, 762, 763, AB6, 320, 321, 772, 77W
User currently offlineDB777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 885 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3855 times:
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Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 16):
and a small room that looks as it may have been used as a bus station and could be F1. It's directly under F3 or F4 and there's an elevator there, although I don't remember where it takes you. I think G has a similar area, which Gulfstream/CO Connection used or perhaps still uses. I believe that gate is in fact G1, but I could be wrong.

Your recollection is correct. Those bus stations used to be real handy for picking up passengers going out to a remote position when we used to have them from time to time. They can also be used for delivering passengers from an aircraft disabled on a runway or taxiway or in the penalty box due to a bomb threat. I believe Gulfstream uses the G1 bus station to walk passengers out to their aircraft parked on the G3 ramp.

The E-Satellite really isn't conducive for making tight connections on AA due to the added time to catch the train. Those trains and the guideway are old and in bad shape and there was talk at one time of tearing them down and extending E out to the Satellite with moving sidewalks in the center of the extension. It seems like they were always under some type of repair.

The latest I've heard on the hotel is that they were seeking bidders to build a new hotel but no one was interested so they reissued the bidding with more incentives for an operator. I haven't heard whether that was successful or not. The existing hotel rooms are too small compared to contemporary competing hotels thus the decision to build a new one. Where the airport will find the money is beyond me but who knows? I think it was pretty crappy deceptive advertising to be showing the pool, exercise room, snack bar, etc. on the hotel's website when it was closed last year and I checked it in response to a poster's question on these forums. I called the hotel and they confirmed that it was still closed and the lady didn't know why it was still showing on the website.


Don



Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3851 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
Puts up with it? American Airlines caused the mess. They were in charge of construction until MIA revoked their position as manager of the product to fix the mess they made.

Bingo!!!!! That was where the whole problem started in the first place. AA should never have been handed the reins to that project in the first place. Way behind schedule, way over budget. Cost at least one very capable airport director her job...

Tom at MSY



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineSJUSXM From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3844 times:

thanx DB777

i visited the hotel four(?) years ago. all that we did was go up to the pool and bar and look around for a little, until a south florida t-storm popped up. thanx for getting all that information. I always thought it was still owned by whoever owned it before and it was just being remodeled or something.



AT7, ER3, ER4, ER5, CR7, E70, E75, F100, M82, M83, 722, 732, 738, 752, 762, 763, AB6, 320, 321, 772, 77W
User currently offlineDB777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 885 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3823 times:
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Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 20):
Bingo!!!!! That was where the whole problem started in the first place. AA should never have been handed the reins to that project in the first place. Way behind schedule, way over budget. Cost at least one very capable airport director her job...

In addition to losing Angela Gittens and then doing exactly what she recommended - take the project back from AA - the airport lost another director in the early 90's. AA paid big bucks for highly paid politically connected lobbyists to sway the county commission in the early 90's to build the project where it is. The airport director at the time (Rick Elder) argued that the hub needed to be in the center of the airport and not at the entrance but the commission ignored him and voted in favor of AA's proposal. Elder was told to resign the following day.

Don



Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 32
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3816 times:

Quoting DB777 (Reply 22):
The airport director at the time (Rick Elder) argued that the hub needed to be in the center of the airport and not at the entrance but the commission ignored him and voted in favor of AA's proposal. Elder was told to resign the following day.

I met Rick at a AAAE conference years ago. A very personable and knowledgeable guy.....it's too bad that board/community politics, as is true in many different areas, has such an influence in how an airport is run. I'm sure you know as well as I that that's a primary reason why the upper level airport management industry is as transient as it is. I just haven't made it to that high-enough yet myself.....  wink  .....not sure I really want to.....

Tom at MSY



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineUalcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3812 times:

DB777---let me ask you another question. In all my years working, living near and flying out of MIA, I've never figured the purpose of that bulky, industrial-looking building that you pass as you exit the airport, a little after leaving H. Any ideas?

The hotel...my God. There was a time when we were instructed to send our first class misconnects there; someone decided that it was in the airport and therefore, more convenient. We had so many complaints that we ended up sending them somewhere else.

Thank you for all your posts here. For those of us who've worked at MIA, it's interesting to learn about the little intricacies out at Wilcox Field!!!


User currently offlineDB777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 885 posts, RR: 43
Reply 25, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3766 times:
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That's the large chiller plant on the left as you exit the airport. There's an interesting article on it at http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BPR/is_2_23/ai_n16085717 I never knew it ranked up there with the largest chiller plants in the country.

Quoting SJUSXM (Reply 21):
i visited the hotel four(?) years ago. all that we did was go up to the pool and bar and look around for a little, until a south florida t-storm popped up. thanx for getting all that information. I always thought it was still owned by whoever owned it before and it was just being remodeled or something.

The hotel is owned by the county's aviation department and used to be leased out to whoever bid the most in payback to the airport. Then they put it on a management agreement where companies bid to run it for the lowest amount after expenses with revenues going directly to the aviation department. The Top of the Port restaurant on the top floor had the best food in the airport when I was there, with a good discount to airport employees, and it should still be good. A window seat on the west side gives a great view of the terminal ramps from E to F and beyond.

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 23):
I'm sure you know as well as I that that's a primary reason why the upper level airport management industry is as transient as it is. I just haven't made it to that high-enough yet myself..... wink .....not sure I really want to.....

You sure wouldn't want to down here unless you were willing to discard all of your principles and ethics just to keep your puppet job.

Don



Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
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