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Varig To Buy 50 Planes In August  
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 16788 times:

SAO PAULO (Dow Jones)--Brazil's embattled flagship airline Viacao Aerea Rio-Grandense, or Varig, will announce this month the purchase of 50 airplanes to supplement its dwindling fleet, Marco Antonio Audi, chairman of the airline's new owners, Volo do Brasil, said late Thursday.

According to the local Estado newswire, he said the company could invest up to $300 million in purchases from two different plane makers.

Audi said he is negotiating "with all plane makers," including Brazil aircraft manufacturer Empresa Brasileira de Aeronautica SA and Airbus...


http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20060810-717583.html

65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5217 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 16760 times:

Embraer and Airbus only... and no Boeing... this is a very stupid management announcement. Airbus will not lower its prices. And certainly RG-Boeing strong relationship for years is now terminated!!

g77 APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7391 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 16728 times:

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 1):
Embraer and Airbus only... and no Boeing... this is a very stupid management announcement.

No. It is not 'very stupid'. If you had read the quote you would have seen it said:

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
"with all plane makers," including

and not 'Embraer and Airbus only'.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30572 posts, RR: 84
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 16702 times:
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$300 million isn't going to get them 50 new Cessnas, to say nothing of Airbus narrowbody or widebodies.  Smile

Did the "new" Varig get any of the planes from the "old" Varig (which is now being used to dumb all the debts)? If not, perhaps this $300 million is being used to acquire some "pre-existing" Embraer and Airbus assets that might have been returned to the lessors/lein-holders?


User currently offlineThePRGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 16612 times:

Unless they are planning to buy a bunch of clacked out jets, $300m is way too low to buy brand new jets outright.
Unless they are speaking of financing them.
Alex


User currently offlineJAM747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 550 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 16444 times:

On a previous trend it was mentioned that RG had laid off the 777 crew and were considering used 747s. I do not know if this true or if there has been a change of thought. Does anyone know if this is really true?

User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2489 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 16414 times:

I think they will go for newer jets , smaller jets, and certainly more economical jets.


I say don't be suprised when the will order a combo between Embraers ERJ series and EMB-170/175/180/185/190 and Airbus/Boeing A330/767, yes 767...


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9497 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 16356 times:

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 4):
Unless they are planning to buy a bunch of clacked out jets, $300m is way too low to buy brand new jets outright.
Unless they are speaking of financing them.
Alex

Of course $300M won't buy many planes outright, but it is a huge deposit. Planes are bought with financing and paid off through their lifetime or they are leased. Few airlines pay for planes up front since the cost of airplanes is so high. The finances of an airline are just not high enough. The planes are the biggest asset of an airline.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineAmerican777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 16279 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
Audi said he is negotiating "with all plane makers," including Airbus...



Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 1):
Embraer and Airbus only... and no Boeing...

Seems they'll probably be interested in these:


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User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 16254 times:

The information is they'll announce the timeline for the acquisition of 50 new aircraft in 2 weeks, not that they'll be acquiring 50 new aircraft outright. That'd just be silly given the situation the company's in.


Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 16211 times:

Has Varig overcome its financial drama already, that it is talking about the acquisition of 50(!) aircraft?

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 1):


Embraer and Airbus only... and no Boeing... this is a very stupid management announcement. Airbus will not lower its prices. And certainly RG-Boeing strong relationship for years is now terminated!!

Not necessarily. What if Airbus and Embraer were to inject $ into the airline directly or otherwise? Think of US Airways which had a deal struck with Airbus. Also, what if the 5-year strong relationship with Boeing was unfavourable and contributed to the airline's financial woes? Airlines do get into certain unfavourable deals because they have no alternatives and have to meet with demand and face off competition, and when things get better, they do review and act according to their best interest.


User currently offlineAndrewuber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 41
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16096 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
$300 million isn't going to get them 50 new Cessnas, to say nothing of Airbus narrowbody or widebodies.

You're right. That's $6 million per aircraft. They may be talking about financing - but I thought Varig's credit might be a bit on the shoddy side???

Their options include: 50 new Cessna Citation Ultra's, or maybe one A380?

Drew



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16025 times:

So clearly RG's management is still high as a kite...  Yeah sure

Such is the credibility of said announcement that if I were RG, I would pack-up tomorrow to avoid further embarassment. RG have become the laughing stock of the aviation world, and it seems that their management is yet to realise that the jokes are on them.

Saludos,

ZXV



How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15782 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Ok guys, all the information i have right now:

1) There are 2 747 (and will be 747-400) under negotiations with a lessor. The condition is not the one Varig is looking for, but they are still trying as they are looking for this big bird!

2) A decision in favor of a new plane on RG fleet is now 75% in favor of Airbus A320/A319. The US$ 300 mm is really just the deposit and Varig is looking for long term financing and seems that Air Canada is helping them!

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAmerican777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15736 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
There are 2 747 (and will be 747-400)

They've been flying for a while now.


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User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9720 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15699 times:

Those Airbus and B744 impressions really look very nice in the RG livery I must say! Wishful thinking for now unfortunately....

A388


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30572 posts, RR: 84
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15505 times:
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Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 7):
Of course $300M won't buy many planes outright, but it is a huge deposit.

Perhaps Embraer and Airbus might be doing a B6-type deal where they back-load the fees and payments to allow a minimal down payment up front.

Quoting ETStar (Reply 10):
What if Airbus and Embraer were to inject $ into the airline directly or otherwise? Think of US Airways which had a deal struck with Airbus.

That could help, as well.

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 9):
The information is they'll announce the timeline for the acquisition of 50 new aircraft in 2 weeks, not that they'll be acquiring 50 new aircraft outright.

That makes more sense.  Smile


User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 15293 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
purchase of 50 airplanes



Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
could invest up to $300 million in purchases from two different plane makers

Hummmm that averages $6M/plane. Assuming that represents a typical 10% deposit, we are talking about planes averaging US$60M - certainly E195/A319/73G territory.

However, delivery slots for ANY of those planes are not availbale till 2009 at the earliest.

I'm sure Varig will be dead (again) by then.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 15226 times:

Quoting American777 (Reply 14):
They've been flying for a while now.

You don't need to go to the modified airliners database to see a RG 744, as they operated the type until the late 90s.


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User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3146 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 15191 times:

Quoting American777 (Reply 14):
They've been flying for a while now.

No need to imagine that one, RG has already operated the type:


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Quoting LVZXV (Reply 12):
Such is the credibility of said announcement that if I were RG, I would pack-up tomorrow to avoid further embarassment. RG have become the laughing stock of the aviation world, and it seems that their management is yet to realise that the jokes are on them.

I would cut the slack on them, ZXV.  Wink Remember, this is not the Fundación Ruben Berta smashing RG to the ground and still making delirious promises. Sounds logical that they announce the timeline for a 50 airplane acquisition so that they expand their service to more profitable routes, in the future, of course.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 17):
I'm sure Varig will be dead (again) by then.

Just like UA and US should be.  Yeah sure If RG kept afloat going that deep, don't underestimate her. You won't be seeing RG dead anytime soon.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 1):
Embraer and Airbus only... and no Boeing... this is a very stupid management announcement. Airbus will not lower its prices. And certainly RG-Boeing strong relationship for years is now terminated!!

Strong relationship?  Confused I thought that only started when Boeing bought out McDonnell Douglas. And if you read correctly, they said they are considering all plane manufactures - Airbus and Embraer INCLUDED.

Indeed good news. RG shaking up the remnants of a horrible administration and narrowing everything down to profitability has been the way to go.

Let's hope the 'Volo' group, owner of both Varig and VarigLog can get RG back where she belongs and where she used to be, along with AR - a premium airline, the pride of Latin America.

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11junkie



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineAmerican777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 15108 times:

Quoting Antiuser (Reply 18):
You don't need to go to the modified airliners database to see a RG 744, as they operated the type until the late 90s.



Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 19):
No need to imagine that one, RG has already operated the type:

I already knew RG operated the type before! The only reason I posted that modification was because since RG wants 744's again that is a preview of how they'll look like in the CURRENT LIVERY!

JOE.  Wink


User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 15039 times:

Quoting American777 (Reply 20):
I already knew RG operated the type before! The only reason I posted that modification was because since RG wants 744's again that is a preview of how they'll look like in the CURRENT LIVERY!

Gotcha. Won't look too different from the 747-300s they had  Smile



Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4116 posts, RR: 90
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 14990 times:
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COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 19):
No need to imagine that one, RG has already operated the type:

MD11junkie Why not check my profile for a picture of a real airplane landing at Kai Tak, you'll like the model  Smile

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineExpress1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 14526 times:

Last time i heard,Varig was heading to the scrap heap!!!, as the carrier ran out of cash and no one wanted to buy them out?  confused 

dave


User currently offlineAntiuser From Italy, joined May 2004, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 13900 times:

Quoting Express1 (Reply 23):
Last time i heard,Varig was heading to the scrap heap!!!, as the carrier ran out of cash and no one wanted to buy them out?

They were bought out by VarigLog.



Azzurri Campioni del Mondo!
25 UAL777UK : All I can say is good luck to them, to say they have had troubles would be a gross misunderstatement......I am just glad the VARIG name lives on.
26 Post contains images B777A340Fan : I think you're right...call it an initial deposit. Isn't $300M like the published price of a 777? I think RG's best best will be to lease w/ option t
27 SBRFtoEHAM : I remember reading right after the auction that finally sold Varig, that they would no more seek "leasing comercial" (rental-type) but "leasing finan
28 MauriceB : To be honest, isn't the 747-400 to big right now? i remember that had problems filling the 400's when they still had them late 90's Anyway i think tho
29 EBJ1248650 : A $300,000,000 down payment?
30 Irobertson : Love that pic of the A340-600, but it might be smarter to finally give the damn -500 a chance! Not such huge capacity but great range and fuel effici
31 Post contains images RAPCON : Dude, for $300 big ones, you can get some junkie Ilyushins!!!
32 MalpensaSFO : 2 747-400? Miami, New York, or Frankfurt? The MD-11's were not money makers to say the least. The MD-11 was flying short/medium haul routes such as G
33 FlyDreamliner : but can you get any spare parts or russian mechanics? Northwest wasn't in bankruptcy when they bought the 787s. Do you know how much they put down? W
34 Slz396 : What RG needs are slightly smaller, more fuel efficient planes than they do operate now, to reduce their seat mile costs drastically. From this perspe
35 Post contains links and images MIAMIx707 : wow that A320 does not look good at all Varig scheme, the A319 probably worse. I hope they get rid of that ugly scheme when they get back on their fee
36 JAL : Where the heck will they get the money?
37 Jrosa : May be Matlin-Patterson Fund.
38 Ram025 : Wouldnt buying airbus planes cost them more money to train and get parts for maintaining the aircraft, they should have just bought some Boeing NG pla
39 MIAMIx707 : Why does Varig need a new expensive fleet, especially introducing a whole new plane type A320 and A330s to be profitable? I don't see anything wrong w
40 Dc10forever : Just a correction: "leasing operacional" (and not "comercial") is the simple rent.
41 Post contains images Irobertson : If only Ilyushin would release that darn Il-96-400 with P&W engines (and get a decent production line going), there'd be some cheaper (and highly dur
42 Baron95 : Why the heck would Varig BUY any planes? Why not just lease and take advantage of the newly approved government income tax exemption on aircraft lease
43 SBRFtoEHAM : I stand corrected, Dc10forever. I simply used the words I've read on a Reuters web page.
44 Antiuser : 777 crews were let go a few days ago.
45 Post contains images YULWinterSkies : Man, you've got extremist views! IIRC the MD-11 crews are the reason why Varig is having problems. That's what they deserve.... Geez....
46 F14ATomcat : They planes they will be getting with their great credit are to be found in partially dismantled boneyard. We will see. But then again there is a leas
47 Post contains links SBRFtoEHAM : A little off-topic, but I just read on http://www.estadao.com.br/ultimas/ec...nomia/noticias/2006/ago/11/327.htm (sorry, portuguese only) that the Civ
48 FMAL : I agree 100% Guys, I won't read through 50 posts, but I just flew Varig this past Wednesday and Yesterday. I'll post a Trip Report (my first!) on it
49 MauriceB : I smell to much American patriots in here. Why so negativ about Airbus while Airbus got more materials produced in the USA than Boeing does..
50 LipeGIG : GIG-GRU-FRA And a domestic network also, BSB and CWB will be back in three weeks. Market demand. Both top competitors (Gol and TAM) nowadays use a be
51 Jrosa : After reading this I will try Varig next week in the Shuttle Service (SDU-CGH-SDU).
52 PPVRA : Is VEM certified for the A320s? . . . or will TAM's Sao Carlos base do the mx? hehe Do you know how AC is helping RG? Cheers
53 Baron95 : Not extremist at all. One of the main reasons RG got into trouble was the crew to aircraft ratio which was 3x what American Airlines have. IIRC they
54 Antiuser : I think the only Airbus aircraft they're certified to do mx on are the A300 and 310. I might be wrong though.
55 LipeGIG : IIRC in the past VEM looks for Airbus certification, and now it's certified only for the A300, but now under TP hands, probably they are looking for
56 FMAL : I had absolutely no problem. Cheapest ticket around, and you get almost no lines (yet!), and flying on time!
57 Rainmaker : Hopefully the new Varig owners can turnaround the company in order to be able to offer a great product, be in high demand again and ultimately be prof
58 ChrisA330 : I hardly think AC has spare planes sitting around that they can send to Varig. With the full summer sked and their refurb program, their whole fleet
59 Post contains images PPVRA : I wonder.... anybody else liked that "Lan" style livery on RG? Not me, for sure. Thank god they didn't paint the entire fleet like that!!
60 Post contains images MIAMIx707 : You don't have to wonder too much. Just ask the local photographers themselves or read the photo captions under most photos of that plane, and read m
61 UK_Dispatcher : I actually think it is much micer than their standard scheme - very nice!
62 Post contains links Leelaw : New Varig parent in talks for single-fleet 50 aircraft to rebuild fleet of troubled Brazilian carrier VarigLog completed arrangements last week to req
63 Tonforty : That's what I was thinking myself. I think the A330 is the most likely widebody for Varig. I think it would be a sensible choice if they get the righ
64 Jrosa : It was announced today that Varig management will have meetings with Boeing and Airbus next week in order to define the new fleet standards.
65 AAL0616 : What will Boeing say at these meetings or why would they even attend? From the sound of this forum, everyone's hero Airbus will make a sweetheart deal
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