JetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2784 posts, RR: 15 Posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9958 times:
I was reading on FlyerTalk what I've thought all along - JetBlue is doing very well in CLT. The LF's are in the high 90's - even with 4 flights a day, albeit on the E190. Fares start at $94, which I would think is pretty high-yielding since Florida, which is much further away from NYC than CLT, has fares that start only $5 higher. Does anyone think we'll see an upgrade to the A320?
As far as future bookings, I can infer that they are pretty strong as well since the $94 fare hasn't been lowered for the Fall season, while destinations such as Florida and some transcon routes (mostly from IAD) have seen some sale fares. CLT also isn't the biggest vacation hot spot either, so I would think that there's less seasonality than, say, West Palm Beach.
I hear JFK-RDU is doing very well too, though the loads are a bit lower and the fares start $10 cheaper. I've been trying to figure out why RDU and CLT have different pricing measures...
JFK/BOS-RIC seem to be doing pretty badly. I've been looking at rough load counts (see: translation of fares at jetblue.com) and very rarely are any of the flights completely booked up. The yields should be half-way decent though, with JFK-RIC starting from $59-$69 o/w, and BOS-RIC starting from $69-$79 o/w. I wouldn't be surprised to see one of the JFK-RIC flights cut out on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
I also hear that JFK/BOS-PIT are doing pretty badly as well. This does surprise me as PIT has been an untapped market from these two huge cities. Perhaps B6 didn't do enough advertising? In any case, the fare from JFK is $59 and the fare from BOS is $79. I think the JFK fare is pretty low because, by comparison, the ROC/BUF/SYR flights start at $69 yet are shorter distances (and are operated by the lower-CASM A320).
There are a couple of A320 routes that were started as well - JFK-JAX and JFK-PWM. I hear JAX is doing pretty well, though a little bit below systemwide LF. I would expect this for the summer - but the winter should tell us more. JFK-PWM got off to a really slow start, but it picked up dramatically since late June and all 4 A320 flights have been going out full daily - at $59 o/w fares. Not the best yields, but if JetBlue can make up for it with higher loads then so be it. All 4 flights will become E190s on 11/1.
Your thoughts?
JetBluefan1
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
CentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3 Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9853 times:
Quoting JetBluefan1 (Thread starter): I also hear that JFK/BOS-PIT are doing pretty badly as well. This does surprise me as PIT has been an untapped market from these two huge cities. Perhaps B6 didn't do enough advertising? In any case, the fare from JFK is $59 and the fare from BOS is $79. I think the JFK fare is pretty low because, by comparison, the ROC/BUF/SYR flights start at $69 yet are shorter distances (and are operated by the lower-CASM A320).
I do have to say, they could have advertised a bit more. WN still has billboards up for PHL and MDW service. The signs read as follows:
Chicagoing all the time! and Philly Fast! WN also advertises for TPA and PHX. WN has also hit all-time PAX highs in Pittsburgh with the latest numbers (June 2006) being as follows:
US Airways: (485,978) (53.13%)
Southwest Airlines: (116,825) (12.77%)
Delta Air Lines: (65,078) (7.11%)
Those are the top three carriers at Pittsburgh for June 2006. B6 ranks last at number twelve for June (They only operated on June 30, 2006).
jetBlue Airways: (957) (0.10%)
This number will obviously increase for July 2006. Something tells me B6 is doing better in Pittsburgh than you say. Maybe Delta, US Airways, and American are giving B6 some heavy competition on PIT-JFK/LGA. I have to think B6 is doing quite well on the PIT-BOS route!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
Bnamaxx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9835 times:
What about JFK/BOS-AUS? DL dropped one E70 to JFK upon B6's arrival. I am still curious how B6 will do here in BNA. They have done virtually no advertising and it is not a well known name here. Then again, F9 was unknown and they seem to be killing UA. Good luck B6!
Luketenley From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 419 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9776 times:
Quoting JetBluefan1 (Thread starter): I also hear that JFK/BOS-PIT are doing pretty badly as well. This does surprise me as PIT has been an untapped market from these two huge cities. Perhaps B6 didn't do enough advertising? In any case, the fare from JFK is $59 and the fare from BOS is $79. I think the JFK fare is pretty low because, by comparison, the ROC/BUF/SYR flights start at $69 yet are shorter distances (and are operated by the lower-CASM A320).
Also suprised at this. I'm sure B6's fares are lower the AA's to LGA. I think the advertising has something to do with it. Give it time. Their traffic numbers will go up just like WN.
JetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2784 posts, RR: 15 Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9776 times:
Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 2): What about JFK/BOS-AUS? DL dropped one E70 to JFK upon B6's arrival
AUS started off slow but picked up much momentum in spring and has done really well this summer. I think there'll be some drop-off in the fall and winter, but overall it seems to be a pretty good route - I didn't think that they'd be able to fill up 3 E190s so well! BOS-AUS is selling at $129 o/w for the fall, so I guess bookings are decent. JFK-AUS is selling at $139 o/w for the fall, so I guess the bookings a bit stronger on that route than BOS.
Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 2): I am still curious how B6 will do here in BNA. They have done virtually no advertising and it is not a well known name here.
I too am wondering about BNA. The sale fare is gone so that could mean that the flights are booking up pretty well. $89 o/w is a decent yield in my book. I hear that the media was all over B6 there - so while there wasn't any actual advertivising directly from B6, the media did some free promotion for them.
JetBluefan1
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
Bnamaxx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9745 times:
Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 4): I too am wondering about BNA. The sale fare is gone so that could mean that the flights are booking up pretty well. $89 o/w is a decent yield in my book. I hear that the media was all over B6 there - so while there wasn't any actual advertivising directly from B6, the media did some free promotion for them.
Yes, when B6 made the announcement they were arriving, it did make all the media for a day or two, but it has been strangely quiet. I've seen one small newspaper ad since. They are kicking DL out of one of their "overflow" gates on B concourse which is good. I'd expected them to wind up on A which has space but is not as desirable.
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9286 posts, RR: 13 Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9666 times:
Bnatraveler From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 380 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9556 times:
I, too, am flying B6 in early September. Paying $275 r/t to BTV for work on a Wednesday. Great flight times, but connections leave a bit to be desired in JFK as there is a ton of time on the ground.
I think that in order for B6 to have much of a following, they will need to offer additional destinations other than just JFK.
One of the reasons that F9 has done so well is their strategic gate placement as well as good flight times. On your way down to the craziness of UA's A4/5 gates, you pass the clean-looking, spacious F9 gate at A3 -- and it's offering a flight on a mainline plane.
B6's gate placement is not likely their choice, but is certainly a bit hidden. Yes, you can see their flights if you are flying US, but the end of the B terminal is pretty weak. Indep. Air went out of those gates, and did well in terms of lf in Nashville, so I guess placement isn't everything.
Another airlines that everyone misses out of Nashville is YX (Skyway-flown) to MKE. They fly to MKE 3x day, do not advertise at all, and generally make me wonder how they are doing. No one has heard of them, other than the few people who find them on Orbitz or if their company has a special deal with them.
JetBlueAUS From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1145 posts, RR: 8 Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9509 times:
Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 2): What about JFK/BOS-AUS? DL dropped one E70 to JFK upon B6's arrival. I am still curious how B6 will do here in BNA. They have done virtually no advertising and it is not a well known name here. Then again, F9 was unknown and they seem to be killing UA. Good luck B6!
From AUS - JFK is doing great! I was there on August 1 and I was able to take a look at the BOS flight and the load factor could've been better. However, it was pretty decent. Last time I was at AUS, the JFK afternoon flight was completely packed, and I imagine it is still doing quite well.
Austin doesn't have its July statistics out quite yet, but here's June:
RJNUT From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1166 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9486 times:
OK here it comes!!
Against a very firm and longstanding tradition of opposition ,
Jet blue has now signed an agreement with Sabe and GAlileo to participate in GDS bookings from ..guess who..travel agencies and travel managment companies like Orbitz and Travleoctiy..
For all the naysayers on this forum..most carriers i have seen eventually recognize the benefit of thosw distbituion outlets and do end participcating at some level!
I had a funny feeling this would have to happen to begin to compete in the "Nashvilles" of the world..Pittsburghers continue to "hose' them selves by not supporting the low fare guy..but this GDS exposure will certainly help Jet blue!
JetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2784 posts, RR: 15 Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9486 times:
That means JetBlue has a LF of 82% in AUS for the month of June. That's not amazing, but it's not too bad either - especially considering that AUS is still a fairly new market. I'm sure the July numbers will be even higher.
On another note, I hear the JFK-IAD flights are booking up very nicely as well. The BOS-IAD-JFK triangle should turn out rather nicely for B6.
JetBluefan1
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
Bnamaxx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9456 times:
According to a friend of mine who's a gate agent for DL, B6 is going to be operating from gate B-7. Didn't Independence use B-13? I think BOS would be a logical add on for B6 on an E90. My aforementioned friend tells me DL was filling up it's new CRJ nonstop to BOS when it was a morning flight, then they inexplicably switched it to afternoon. Surely BNA can support a second service to BOS? As for Skyway, I guess there is a market there. I was arriving on WN the other day and saw the Skyway FRJ boarding - it looked full. Remember they started out 2x daily on BE1 equipment, now 3x on FRJ. Who knows, we may see YX 717's someday?
JetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2784 posts, RR: 15 Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9341 times:
I'm guessing that most of the people filling those YX flights are from MKE or other places where they have a following. I bet that most of the B6 flights will be filled with New Yorkers - not people from Tennessee. Hopefully word will get around in Nashville though. I think BNA-BOS could be a nice addition if the JFK flights turn out well.
JetBluefan1
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
Bnatraveler From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 380 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9260 times:
I used to fly MQ (former Business Express) n/s from BNA-BOS for years, they used to have 3-4x then they slowed to fewer and fewer flights. WN flew BNA-MHT and BNA-PVD a ton at that time. Now, I dont' think BNA-MHT is flown at all, BNA-PVD is drastically reduced and BNA-BOS long gone.
I can see how DL can fill a CRJ, but if they changed it from am to pm it was to support business travelers who didn't think they could get into BOS in time. When is the return?
In flying the BNA-BOS / BNA-MHT / BNA-PVD sectors for years, most of those flights had very few connecting passengers. Almost all of my flights were full. I would imagine that there is a market. The old data from the Management Reporting site shows that there are 151 pax/day/avg on the BNA-BOS segment.
MQ is now flying BNA-DCA-BOS on same plane service.
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9286 posts, RR: 13 Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9227 times:
Quoting Bnatraveler (Reply 13): I used to fly MQ (former Business Express) n/s from BNA-BOS for years
Business Express never flew BNA-BOS. It was always an American Eagle route.
[Edited 2006-08-13 20:16:33]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
Cactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2379 posts, RR: 34 Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9190 times:
Quoting Bnatraveler (Reply 7): One of the reasons that F9 has done so well is their strategic gate placement as well as good flight times
I'm curious how many people you think book air travel based on gate placement.....? The only advantage that really gives Frontier over United is people that are flying United just might remember that Frontier had a better gate, but I highly doubt it would factor into their next purchasing decision.
Bnatraveler From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 380 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9104 times:
I didn't say that people booked based on gate placement, but they became AWARE of the service because of gate placement (i.e. "hidden" gates for small carriers in an airport versus well placed gates that co-incide with the incumbent on the particular route)
JetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2784 posts, RR: 15 Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8933 times:
Quoting Bnatraveler (Reply 16): I didn't say that people booked based on gate placement, but they became AWARE of the service because of gate placement (i.e. "hidden" gates for small carriers in an airport versus well placed gates that co-incide with the incumbent on the particular route)
While it isn't a huge factor, it does still carry some weight. For example, if the gate for a new carrier is right at the beginning of a 40-gate concourse, many people will pass the gate each day and it may spark the attention of some. "Oh I've never heard of that airline" may be one of the many thoughts that people could have.
I know that in the JetBlue gate area they advertise their LiveTV and XM Radio service not only over the loudspeaker but also with signs and banners. I think that'll grab the attention of some passengers from other airlines in the concourse.
Granted, this is not a huge factor in marketing or an airline's choice of flying into an airport. But it certainly can help make an airline more well-known if utilized appropriately (see example above).
JetBluefan1
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
Lowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8933 times:
I think many of the new routes have some landing fee, gate fee, and advertising subsidy for at least a year. This will probably mitigate any probable first year loses in these markets.
I see MLB just got an $800,000 subsidy from the Feds they are waiving at both US Airways and Jetblue. The new route guy, Martin St. George will probably make the call on whether they get added this year.
Bnamaxx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8777 times:
Bnatraveler: BNA-BOS on DL is a 16:00 departure from BNA. The return is a 13:40 dep from BOS, arriving BNA @ 15:25. Doesn't seem like ideal scheduling to me. BOS was one of that last cities dropped when AA was dismantling their BNA hub in the 90's. You're correct, WN has dropped BNA-MHT and PVD is down to 1x daily. I still think WN should shell out some bucks and lease some of those empty C gates from AA and do some expansion.
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 14): Business Express never flew BNA-BOS. It was always an American Eagle route.
AA Eagle purchased Business Express years ago. That's where lot's of those ER3's came from.
ASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 889 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8616 times:
Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 19): AA Eagle purchased Business Express years ago. That's where lot's of those ER3's came from.
Business Express never had ER3's. When MQ/AA bought Business Express they were flying S340's. Since the 80's, Business Express has flown the Beech 1900, Saab340 and the BAE 146.
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9286 posts, RR: 13 Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8497 times:
Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 19): AA Eagle purchased Business Express years ago. That's where lot's of those ER3's came from.
As ASFlyer said, BEX never flew the E135... but did have orders in for them. It was those orders, plus the BOS and LGA slots that made BEX such a tempting purchase for Eagle. By taking the BEX E135 orders, Eagle was allowed to leap frog over several other customers waiting for their aircraft to be delivered. It's sad because Eagle has now destroyed the great network and client base that BEX had in the northeast. Routes and bases that were huge markets for BEX have been closed or greatly reduced.
[Edited 2006-08-13 21:58:31]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
Bnamaxx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8339 times:
Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 20): Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 19):
AA Eagle purchased Business Express years ago. That's where lot's of those ER3's came from.
Business Express never had ER3's. When MQ/AA bought Business Express they were flying S340's. Since the 80's, Business Express has flown the Beech 1900, Saab340 and the BAE 146.
Quoting EMBQA (Reply 21): As ASFlyer said, BEX never flew the E135... but did have orders in for them
Perhaps I could have been clearer, the ER3's were on order as stated. I never indicated MQ actually operated the aircraft. The order was inherited by Eagle when they bought BEX.
Erjmech From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 4 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8131 times:
I Believe that Gate B-13 is currently abandoned and is reserved for B6 as of 8/31/06 @ BNA. Its just a rumor but one has already landed there for mx and was placed at B-13 to swap airplanes. Airport Ops was at the gate and were fairly confident that B-13 would be B6's BNA home.
CentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3 Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7992 times:
Quoting Luketenley (Reply 3): Their traffic numbers will go up just like WN.
I hope so! WN's numbers have been climbing from the beginning. B6 has to be filling PIT-BOS though.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
25 JetBluefan1: Has WN added any more flights/destinations in the past few months? I hear that they're doing just fine at PIT though it hasn't been as successful as
26 Bnamaxx: This is what I had thought all along until my friend at DL said he had heard it was going to be B7. I do know they are taking the old Independence ti
27 PIT757: I couldnt agree with you more! If I need to fly, I will usually select Southwest, Air Tran and Jet Blue. Ive been flying them ever since they started
28 Jetsetsteve: I just check the BNA website and it states the B6 will be using B-13. There is not one sign at the Airport letting folks know about B6s new service. I
29 Bnamaxx: Thanks for the update. I looked on the airport website but must have missed it. True that concerning the marketing. With service less than three week
30 Wjcandee: Hmmm... I would think that $129 would be a pretty sad yield on a 3-hour flight. So often, the JetBlue "fans" on a.net, of which there are many, act a
31 JetBluefan1: 1.) This is just the starting fare. The highest price is a pretty hefty $349. 2.) The sale fare is for travel in autumn. We all know that Sept-Nov ar
32 Wjcandee: REALLY NOW?! I was actually enjoying reading your rational response to my post, then had to just roll my eyes when I read this. Are we now threatenin
33 JetBluefan1: Once again, the topic being discussed here is how JetBlue's new routes are performing, not JetBlue's expenses and the rate at which they are increasi
34 EMBQA: What makes you think you need New Yorkers to fill the flight...? I plan on using jetBlue out of BNA all the time and I'm not from New York or even kn
35 JetBlueAtJFK: I am on the first JFK-IAD flight and the fare went up since I bought it and the way it looks now is that they are filling nicely. I will post about ho
36 JetBluefan1: Good point. I keep on forgetting that JetBlue is adding more cities that connect through JFK - BOS, PWM and PIT just to name a few. Hopefully with th
37 CentPIT: No, WN hasn't added any PIT flights for some time. WN currently operates 20 daily flights to six destinations: PHL MDW MCO LAS PHX TPA I know about B
38 RJpieces: I don't think so from what I've seen...Heck, the first JFK-IAD flight on the 17th is still selling at $80 one way which is fairly low for this route.
39 JetBluefan1: Thurs/Fri/Sat/Sun are all nicely booked. Keep in mind that the route will most likely have many 1- or 2-day advanced purchases because of its low wal
40 JetBlueAtJFK: It leaves at 7 but gets in then and I would think press would be in IAD but I guess not. Some flights are up to $150 already and try the 9 PAX trick
41 JFK69: I have been back and forth between JFK - PIT 3 times since that first flight which I was on as well. I have flown on weekends and off days during the
42 JetBluefan1: Chances are that you'll be on a pretty full flight. (Think about that statement for a second and you'll see what I mean.) JFK-PIT has had its occassi
43 Brons2: That's good to hear. People are aware of this service here in Austin and speak highly of B6. I would like to try it but I just haven't had occasion t
44 JetBluefan1: I've recognized that in the bookings too. On Thursdays especially, I see many people leaving AUS for BOS or JFK. I'm making an educated guess that mo
45 Brons2: They had a billboard downtown, radio coverage and giveaways on many radio/TV news shows of NYC trips/weekends. It wasn't Southwest-esque by far (I see
46 CentPIT: I agree with you, here is another way to look at a few empty planes here and there: (Competition) PIT-LGA US Airways: 6 daily--2 CRJ, A319, B733, A32
47 Ripdog: JetBluefan1- Do you foresee B6 providing service to Florida from here in BNA? I fly to MCO & TPA a lot, and would love to use them. Of course right no
48 Jetsetsteve: If any service is added from BNA it would most likely be BOS.
49 MAH4546: Don't forget AA and DL offer Florida service too. As long as WN is flying Florida routes from Nashville, jetBlue won't.
50 JetBluefan1: I really don't forsee service to Florida from BNA. As MAH said, WN already flies to FL and the two airlines typically don't compete with each other o
51 Delta767: I wonder with RDU and CLT routes doing so well if they'd consider adding GSO routes...maybe in place of the poorer performing other routes (if they ac
52 Steeler83: Hell, I knew about B6 since before ACAA tried to land them!!!! As a matter of fact, a few years ago I was asking myself, "Ya know, it's been a while
53 CentPIT: Same here, I actually started getting to know them in late 2001 and through 2002! If B6 pulls out of Pittsburgh, I am probably going to laugh really
54 InTheSky74: At least one of the daily JFK-CLT roundtrips is becoming an A320 in October. Rob
55 CentPIT: Great news for CLT! This LCC thing is all new for the folks in CLT. This isn't the case for the people of Pittsburgh! I am hoping PIT catches on!
56 JetBlueAtJFK: B6 needs to just advertise more and get media attention there. Announce some sale and send it to the press there. Some thing creative like the Blue B
57 Ikramerica: If their fares show up on Travelocity, it will help them immensely in markets where they aren't well known without having to spend a fortune on adver
58 CentPIT: Thats what I am thinking! From what I hear, B6 is a great airline. As people from Pittsburgh experience their service, they will most likely choose t
59 Steeler83: Frankly, I am for taking these folks out back into an alley and kicking 'em in da crotch! That, or find some other way to knock snot into them. This
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2784 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
