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Door Operation  
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8284 times:

Hi All,

Recent NW flights prompt this question -- who is responsible for opening/closing the aircraft doors? Is there a reason why?

Since it seems like it varries by airline, does anyone have a list?

I had always assumed that the FAs would open and close the aircraft doors, but I noticed after boarding for one of my NW flights the gate agent came onboard, interrupted a conversation the FAs were having and asked "Is it OK if I close the door now?"

Then upon pulling up to the gate at the end of the flight there was a loud banging/knocking at the 1L door until one of the FAs walked over and made some kind of gesture (from my angle I couldn't see what it was) before the gate agent opened it.

Lincoln


CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8273 times:

Depends on the airline and sometimes aircraft type. Usually A320 series aircraft are opened by ground agents as the emergency slide is automatically deactivated when the handle on the door is pulled up.

-US Airways, we just made sure it was clear and opened up the door.
-Air Jamaica, we knocked the window, waited for the thumbs up and opened. There is a little light that would illuminate if the aircraft is still pressurized for some reason, at that point you just stop and wait a little while, before trying again.

When I worked at the airport, we opened and closed, A320 series, B744 and B752.

THe 737s were opened on the inside, the 767s that came the door went up in the roof, and the 777 and A330 were opened from the inside, we would assist but the actual operation would be done by a FA. Boils down to the airlines procedures.

Picture of me playing with expensive equipment.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j114/dc9super80/DSC00547_JPG.jpg

[Edited 2006-08-13 17:17:48]

[Edited 2006-08-13 17:23:23]

[Edited 2006-08-13 17:24:41]


There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineAC_B777 From Canada, joined Aug 2000, 809 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8261 times:

It all depends on the airlines.
At AC, the ramp workers open and close the doors on all AC and QK (Jazz) planes.
There are some airlines like WN where the gate agents open and close the doors and other airlines where the flight attendants do it.



In life, some days you are the bug..... some days you are the windshield!
User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8242 times:

Quoting Captaink (Reply 1):
the emergency slide is automatically deactivated when the handle on the door is pulled up.

Dont ever assume that...

I've seen girt bars frozen into place and even though the door is supposed to dis-arm when you butterfly the handle, never open a door from the outside that is in automatic mode... Always get the person on the inside to dis-arm and then open it.

Same when opening the door on the inside... even though you may have selected the handle into Manual. Always crack the door open just enough to get a visual on the girt bar before you push the door fully open.



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8223 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 3):
I've seen girt bars frozen into place and even though the door is supposed to dis-arm when you butterfly the handle, never open a door from the outside that is in automatic mode... Always get the person on the inside to dis-arm and then open it.

I was making specific reference to the A320 series aircraft. At least I was taught that opening the A320 from the outside will always disarm the door. But if the FA does not disarm it from the inside and you try to pull up the handle on the outside would it open? And if so would the slide deploy or would it disarm?

With the Boeings and the butterfly mechanism, I know that it will deploy if it is in automatic mode or the girt bar is stuck. When opening the B744 we are to look down at the bottom of the door where the bar is just to make sure, and at the corner by the hinge where the red pressure 'thingy' is before fully opening the door. I watched the videos during the door opening training for VS and yeah it is scary what can happen if that door is not disarmed and the slide deploys.



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8203 times:

Quoting Captaink (Reply 4):
I was making specific reference to the A320 series aircraft. At least I was taught that opening the A320 from the outside will always disarm the door. But if the FA does not disarm it from the inside and you try to pull up the handle on the outside would it open? And if so would the slide deploy or would it disarm?

I treat all doors the same, that way i never get one procedure confused with another...



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineDc10s4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8203 times:

On AA the doors on the 737 and S80 are "cracked" open be the FA, but closed by the agent dispatching the trip.

On all other aircraft with automatic doors (757,767,777,A300) the door is opened and closed by the agent.


User currently offlineTWAL1011727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8197 times:

Usually.....the gate agent will open the door after the flt attndt cracks the door......on most narrowbody A/C (especially Boeings) the L1 door can be a struggle to open from a flt attndt point of view. Conversely...the gate agents move the door to a semi closed position and the flt attndt finishes closing the door. Its usually company policy that dictates who opens the door.

KD


User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8130 times:

Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 7):
Usually.....the gate agent will open the door after the flt attndt cracks the door......on most narrowbody A/C (especially Boeings)

Usually Boeings is correct, as this is not usually the case with Airbus narrowbodies.



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineAirplanepics From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2739 posts, RR: 40
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8121 times:

Usually, if the aircraft is coming in with Passengers, the crew will undo the door. If the aircraft is coming in as a positioning flight and we need it moved quickly, we sometimes open the door. We don't have to worry about emergency slides on the aircraft we work on.

Although, i'm always cautious of the Hawker door, those thing's can kill!



Simon - London-Aviation.com
User currently offlineTopJet001 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8082 times:

I know this sounds like a stupid question, but I really don't know....what does it mean when you hear "doors to automatic".......and what is an automatic door...?

Thanks,


Andy  Smile


User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8082 times:

757 doors are a bitch regardless of which ones you are working with, they are way too heavy to operate in manual mode and you would need help of about 4 people if god forbid the power assist failed during an evac.

With us the doors are always opened by the FAs and never ground agents, they can help us open and close the door by holding onto it (thereofre taking some weight off us). Caterers are supposed to have special training and can open/close 1R and 4L (on the 757) and 1R & 2R on the A320, of course they can only do that once they have been told all passengers are off.

Doors can not be operated by anyone other than crew downroute.

And on the 737 with the manual girt bars they always had to be opened by the crew.

A crewmember is assigned a door/seat position - for instance today I was the L2 crewmember, that meant I had a double jumpseat at doors 2 (757), although today the jumpseat was actually on A/C right. I was responsible for arming and disarming, opening & closing door 2 Left (the boarding door). In theory I and only I should operate the door but usually another crewmember could close it if they are instructed.

Phil
FlyingColours



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7978 times:

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 11):
for instance today I was the L2 crewmember, that meant I had a double jumpseat at doors 2 (757), although today the jumpseat was actually on A/C right.

Can I have your job?

Thanks for the info though.

I do find that many of the charter companies tend to have their doors only opened and closed by crew members. I assume this is becuase they at times fly to airport out of their usual route network, hence don't have staff trained in their policies and procedures. Airlines that I have dealt with, Monarch, Excel, Air Transat, Skyservice regardless of the equipment flown, the FA's opened the doors themselves.



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineLowsonboy From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7925 times:

As dispatchers we are not allowed to open any doors on the airlines we handle, though most of us would help pull heavy (eg 757, 747) doors open if the crew were struggling a bit. Apart from CO, whose doors we open and close from the outside, once we're given an OK signal from the crew.

User currently offlineIAHcsr From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3459 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7901 times:
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At CO... 737s are cracked by the FA's then opened by the agents. 75/76/77's are opened by the agents after getting a  thumbsup  from the FA though the window.


Working very hard to Fly Right....
User currently offlineZippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5488 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7881 times:

Here's the deal with us at FL.


  • Arrival: A/C stops, marsheler gives me (gate agent) signal.
  • I put the jet way in motion-at "BEEWEE" our jet ways trundle, shake rattle and rock and roll up to the bird.
  • Wait for APU cable to be hooked up correctly. Captain cuts the engines
  • I (gate agent) rap tap taps on the forward door.
  • Lead F/A finishes their spiel, removes the red cloth across little porthole door window which means the emergency slide is disarmed. Open the door with the slide armed and you get whacked quicker and harder than Tony Soprano could do the job.
  • Zippyjet opens the cabin door and tells lead F/A where pax can claim bags and connection information if applicable. Also if applicable if the lead F/A is female and hot looking some "Zippyjet" patented flirting.
  • I then ask if there are any specials usually wheel chairs and "UMINNERS" Unaccompanied minors. Sometimes there is heavy stuff like summon the law for a special passenger or sadly sometimes a meat wagon usually on inbound RSW, FLL and SRQ flights.

    Departure
  • everybody must be behaving in their seats, I review load plan with Capt. and first officer. Make sure all doors are closed with the exception of course of the main cabin door.
  • "Doors Closed All Set!" which means it's kosher to exit my butt off the bird, I then release the door and on the 717's close it until it rests on the latch. Then our lead F/A secures and locks the door.
  • I have all my paperwork, and then put the jet way in motion and shake, rattle, roll and trundle back.
  • Hang out at end of jet way while ramp does push back/tow the bird out.
  • As this happens, I wave/salute the captain who does the same.
  • On the 737-700 everything is the same but, I release the door and let it fall naturally toward closing. Gravity does the work. Then lead F/A secures door.
  • During our Southern sweltering summers, I feel like a steamed side of beef and make my way back into the terminal.
  • Ready for my next great airline gate adventure!


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User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7842 times:

Quoting TopJet001 (Reply 10):
know this sounds like a stupid question, but I really don't know....what does it mean when you hear "doors to automatic".......and what is an automatic door...?

Doors have two modes... Manual and Automatic.

In manual mode, you can open the door and the safety features will not be activated.

In automatic mode, all the safety features of the door are armed and opening the door will action several different functions.

I cant speak of other types other than the B744 and A340 however many aircraft have the same or similar types of operation.

A Pressurised Door Assist bottle (Charged with nitrogen to about 1800psi) will force the door open with force and at speed incase the aircraft lands in such a way that the force of a human cant lift the weight of the door.

The Escape Slide/Raft should also inflate.

Attached to the slide is a fabric girt and telescopic girt bar. The telescopic girt bar enables the slide pack to be removed from one floor-level exit’s floor fittings and deployed outside the airplane from another door, if necessary, in the event of a ditching and emergency evacuation in the water. When the door is “armed,” the girt bar is attached to the floor fittings on the doorsill so that when the door is opened, the girt bar will pull on the slide/raft and initiate its deployment. When the door is “disarmed” and opened, the girt bar remains attached to and moves with the door, thereby preventing the slide/raft from deploying.

Which explains how the Girt Mechanism works... When an engineer installs an emergency slide, a duplicate inspection of the installation should be carried out by an engineer which was not involved in the task of installation.



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineAC320tech From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7827 times:

Quoting Captaink (Reply 1):
Usually A320 series aircraft are opened by ground agents as the emergency slide is automatically deactivated when the handle on the door is pulled up.

Never assume that. Someone thought thats how the 767 works, opened the door and got a face full of slide.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 4):

I was making specific reference to the A320 series aircraft. At least I was taught that opening the A320 from the outside will always disarm the door. But if the FA does not disarm it from the inside and you try to pull up the handle on the outside would it open? And if so would the slide deploy or would it disarm?

No, No Airbus aircraft disarm the doors by themselves if someone opens it from the outside. The door has to be disarmed by moving a handle next to the handle that opens the door. No airplane does this because what if emergency crews have to open the door from the outside?

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 16):
A340 however many aircraft have the same or similar types of operation.

Whatever it is on the A340 is the same on the rest of the Airbus's (probably a bit different on the A300 and A310, but those doors operate the same as the rest).

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 16):
A Pressurised Door Assist bottle (Charged with nitrogen to about 1800psi) will force the door open with force and at speed incase the aircraft lands in such a way that the force of a human cant lift the weight of the door.

One of these bottles wasnt fully charged on the TS236 accident, the R3 door, only open a third of the way and then jammed.


User currently offlineMarkHKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7801 times:

Quoting AC320tech (Reply 17):
Never assume that. Someone thought thats how the 767 works, opened the door and got a face full of slide.

Well, actually, the 767 service doors WILL disarm if they are opened from the outside. It's the 767 emergency doors at R3 and L3 that will deploy automatically from the outside, as they are always armed.

Quoting AC320tech (Reply 17):
The door has to be disarmed by moving a handle next to the handle that opens the door.

The A320 is a user-friendly system. It will disarm if opened from the outside. The emergency crews need to this function to prevent getting a face-full of slide if they open the doors from the outside.



Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
User currently offlineKaddyuk From Wallis and Futuna, joined Nov 2001, 4126 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7765 times:

Quoting AC320tech (Reply 17):
Whatever it is on the A340 is the same on the rest of the Airbus's

Yeah, but you know what the flame squad is like on this forum... I was covering my ass...  Wink



Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
User currently offlineAC320tech From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7715 times:

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 18):
Well, actually, the 767 service doors WILL disarm if they are opened from the outside. It's the 767 emergency doors at R3 and L3 that will deploy automatically from the outside, as they are always armed.



Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 18):

The A320 is a user-friendly system. It will disarm if opened from the outside.

Im sorry but you are incorrect. Ever hear of the "red-tape" that gets put across the windows on aircraft (Boeing and McDonnell Douglas) to tell the ground crew the door is still armed? Doors on any commercial airliner will not dissarm if the door is opend from the outside.

On Airbus aircraft, there is a light indicator that will illuminate and stay illuminated when the door is armed and the aircraft is on the ground. If it blinks its because the cabin is still pressurized.



In this picture we can see the A320 door, see the "REMOVE BEOFRE FLIGHT" strip, or the red strip? It is clipped to a yellow handle. This yellow hand arms and disarms the door.

I also clarified with my Father, who used to work as a rampie in YHZ for AC. He said the doors do not disarm on the 767 or A320 when you move the handle.


[Edited 2006-08-14 05:26:42]

[Edited 2006-08-14 05:27:41]

[Edited 2006-08-14 05:28:54]

User currently offlineEWRCabincrew From United States of America, joined May 2006, 5527 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7669 times:

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 16):
Doors have two modes... Manual and Automatic.

Three modes. Add electric. DC-10s and L-10s have electric. 767s have them as well.



You can't cure stupid
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1895 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7619 times:
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DL policy is that the grould crew is to always open or close the doors. on all aircraft operated by DELTA. The regional carriers each have thier own rules that I am not fully familiar with.

[Edited 2006-08-14 08:17:19]


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineIAHcsr From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3459 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7592 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AC320tech (Reply 20):
Doors on any commercial airliner will not dissarm if the door is upend from the outside.

Speaking from 18 years of experience opening doors on the A300/DC10/747/757/767 and 777, I can say with absolute certainly they are designed to disengage/disarm when operated externally. This is the very reason why .. at CO anyway.. FA's are to disarm, but NOT open them from inside.  stirthepot 
I had a distracted FA open an armed 747 door on me once .... Lucky for me the slide has to drop  down  from door level before in inflates ......  relieved 



Working very hard to Fly Right....
User currently offlineMarkHKG From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7533 times:

Quoting AC320tech (Reply 20):
Im sorry but you are incorrect.

No, read the ARFF (Aircraft Rescue and Fire Fighting) information. Doors opened, for the doors I mentioned, from the outside get disarmed.

Boeing 767 series
www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/arff/arff767.pdf

Airbus A320 series
http://www.aaae.org/government/200_R...craft_Familiarization/a319-320.pdf

Quoting AC320tech (Reply 20):
Ever hear of the "red-tape" that gets put across the windows on aircraft (Boeing and McDonnell Douglas) to tell the ground crew the door is still armed?

Boeing 737 aircraft get the "Red tape" treatment because their doors DO NOT disarm from the outside, as you mention. But newer designed planes from the 757 onwards and A300 onwards all are "user friendly" systems EXCEPT for the emergency doors and thus disarm when the doors is opened from the outside. Also remember that the 737 series doors hasn't had an extensive redesign since it first rolled out until the 737 NG series where a new type of overwing exit was added, so there is no power assist system or exterior disconnect.

Quoting AC320tech (Reply 20):
He said the doors do not disarm on the 767 or A320 when you move the handle.

But the door disarms when the handle is released from the OUTSIDE.



Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
25 Bobski : When I fly on Aer Lingus in their A320s/A321s, it always seems to be the FA that closes the door. When we arrive, there is usually a knock by the grou
26 OttoPylit : At DL, it is the ground crews responsibility for opening aircraft doors. On widebody equipment, as soon as the jetway connects to the aircraft, the g
27 Kaddyuk : Nope, doors on most modern aircraft types will move from the automatic mode to manual mode when opened from the outside...
28 EWRCabincrew : Except the modern 737NGs (and any version 737 for that matter), the DC-9 family (MD-80/90s too), and probably the 717.
29 AC320tech : Sorry guys I was wrong. Thanks for the files, some of the information is really useful.
30 Bwaflyer : It seems to be a transatlantic difference. From the replies above, North American carriers have the ground crew open the door (either totally, or afte
31 MCOflyer : When I sit on by the l2 door on US flts, the gate agent will close the door part way and the fa actually shuts the door and armes it. MCOflyer
32 Post contains links and images Lincoln : Wow! Thanks for all of the replies -- this is certainly turned into a much larger and more informative/thorough thread than I had expected. It's made
33 Post contains images IAHcsr : Paraphrasing here.. "If Red strip shows in window" (I see it every day .. You'd think I would know the exact wording}
34 Post contains images BH : Here's another one for you, Like IAHcsr said the xxxxx "is something along the line of red stripe must not be showing or your getting a slide in your
35 StarGuy : At Virgin Atlantic, it is standard practise for ground to open the door from the outside in all normal circumstances. Cabin crew only open the doors
36 Post contains images FlyingColours : Yup, when I worked on the 737 (400 & 800) the way we would arm the doors would be to place the red strip (or flag) across the viewing window (so the
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