USADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 18447 times:
I can't find the thread about liveries, but I want to make it clear about the "U" of united Airlines.
Why some people believe its a tulip? Any logical reason?
So, here is a little more :
The first coherent branding initiative at United was Saul Bass' corporate identity program in 1973. What Saul Bass & Associates found at United was a non-structured identity system spread throughout the company. This patchwork incoherently communicated United’s philosophy, internally and to the customers. The new service mark was comprised of a stylized red and blue "Double U" symbol as the visual focus and a custom logotype featuring modified Handel Gothic without serif letters to clearly identify the company by name. The selected colors were between the basic warm United Red in equilibrium with the cool United Blue. The famous Double U was later nicknamed "the tulip," which is unfortunate in that it disassociates the symbol with the “U” in United, reducing its positive brand equity. Saul Bass' branding was very successful in the way it unified United's image, especially in terms of logotype and the look of the aircraft. Additionally, Saul Bass' imposition of consistent design criteria to advertising and promotion campaigns is notable, as it frequently occurs the other way around. Other than the reintroduction of the word Airlines in 1979, this branding remained intact for the next 20 years. (Aerosite)
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 10289 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 18373 times:
Interesting that there is debate about this. Overall I don't see a problem with United'd logo being called a Tulip. It's still one of the more recognizeable logos like American's AA and Delta's triangle.
Northwest use to have a cool logo that had both the letters N and W and also pointed towards the northwest, but they recently modified it. Continental has a logo, but it changed about 10 years ago and doesn't scream Continental. US Airways has a flag, but it is a recent logo.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
AA777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2557 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 18326 times:
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1): Northwest use to have a cool logo that had both the letters N and W and also pointed towards the northwest, but they recently modified it
They need to make the arrow more pointy. To me, it can be confused as pointing in any of the three directions of the triangle, because all three sides are the same length. That way it would look 100% like it was pointing towards the NW. To me, the new one looks more like its pointing SOUTH than it points to the NW. Probably because in the old livery, the arrow was to the left of the N. It just made more sense, IMHO. Here's a good example...
Jamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 18067 times:
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1): Northwest use to have a cool logo that had both the letters N and W and also pointed towards the northwest, but they recently modified it.
I wholeheartedly agree. Although NWA's new look is an enhancement, and I like it, the "N" encircled by the globe with the arrow pointing to the northwest corner (of the globe) while also completing the "W", was truly a masterpiece of a logo. The new look is great, but the creative element is lost with the revision of the logo. Also, I don't care for how the arrow points northeast on the right side of the aircraft.
Jamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 17961 times:
Sometime in the late 1990's, United commissioned the design firm, Pentagram to revise its logo. After extensive market research, the iconic blue and red "UU" logo was determined to be a very recognizable trademark. If I am not mistaken, I believe it was Pentagram that first coined the term "tulip" for United's logo. Upon the completion of their market research, they decided to retain the "UU" logo, but enlarge it in such a way that part of the logo was cropped, as well as slightly off centered. Shortly after that, the ensquared "tulip" began appearing on backdrops at United's ticket counters and being used in printed material. Pentagram also came up with the revised "U N I T E D", in black, replacing the prior "United Airlines" lettering in white. After 9/11 and United's bankruptcy filing, the project was put on hold some time. That is why the revised black lettering appeared on signs and printed matter, well before it was applied to aircraft exteriors.
Lincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 17845 times:
Quoting AA777 (Reply 2): To me, the new one looks more like its pointing SOUTH than it points to the NW.
I actually got into a very heated debate about this with my Mom at DTW last Monday. She insisted that the arrow was pointing due South and no amount of logic (why would an airline named Northwest have the arrow pointing south; if it was suposed to point south, why would it be in the northwest quadrand of the circle?) could convince her otherwise.
I guess with the snide remarks the gate agents were making she thought that was the direction the airline was going.
Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 7): Although NWA's new look is an enhancement, and I like it, the "N" encircled by the globe with the arrow pointing to the northwest corner (of the globe) while also completing the "W", was truly a masterpiece of a logo.
Yeah, the simplicity and subtelty of that was amazing second only, perhaps, to the giant forward arrow in FedEx's logo.
Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 7): Also, I don't care for how the arrow points northeast on the right side of the aircraft.
Ahh... But by pointing northeast on the starboard side of the aircraft, they ensure that the arrow is never pointing backwards, or something like that.
Now wait... Wasn't Northeast Airlines bought by Delta. Aha! It's a sure sign that Northwest and Delta will merge any day now!
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
AirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 17810 times:
I have a totally different take on the United design. In the early 70's Western International Hotels were part of United. Top executives Edward Carlson and Richard Ferris both came from Western International. Rank and file workers at United did not like or trust this pair. The new symbol was the work of these two. Look carefully at the symbol, and you can see a W and a I together forms a U. As I remember the symbol first appeared in 1974.
An airline from Holland or Turkey, maybe, it makes sense.
Maybe I'm confused. But if people recongnize and assocaiate the 'tulip' with United Airlines, why does is it a bad thing? Branding only really matters if peopel don't know the brand. By your own admission, people know what the United 'tulip' (or "U") look like - so it seems like it's working. If it had been a peach for 35 or so years, then I'm sure people would associate a peach with United. As long as people see the 'tulip' and know it's United, then it's accomplished it's goal - hasn't it?
Avatordon From United States of America, joined May 2006, 239 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 16947 times:
Tulip...was an internal nickname. So was "shaded U", which was akin to "Double U". There was a lot of acrimony towards Western International hotels as, even though United technically owned them, most of the upper management at UA was former Westin (Carlson, Ferris). There was even another not-so-nice nickname about UA management at the time - "The Seattle Connection" - I think that the tulip got the name because it looked like just that - a tulip...as opposed to a flounder...
DreamsUnited From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15803 times:
I really like how there are two arguments about two different airlines (United and Northwest) and they have yet to acknowledge each others existence, if the world ran like this, there would be no wars...
Except the United symbol war...
Do not abort a takeoff because a cockpit window pops open!
Broocy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 15742 times:
It is funny seeing what people think of airline logos. The Qantas Kangaroo is famed for being mistaken for a rat- especially the smaller winged version from the 1970's. Some thought the Alsaka Airlines Eskimo looked like Colonel Gaddafi. (Even though he always seems to wear the blue pill-box hats of a Pan Am stewardess???)
A tulip is stylish and beautiful. There are worse things the "U" could be mistaken for.
N600RR From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15474 times:
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1): Northwest use to have a cool logo that had both the letters N and W and also pointed towards the northwest
Quoting RootsAir (Reply 4): I love how the N is fused with the W and the arrow pojting Northwest
Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 7): the "N" encircled by the globe with the arrow pointing to the northwest corner (of the globe) while also completing the "W", was truly a masterpiece of a logo. The new look is great, but the creative element is lost with the revision of the logo. Also, I don't care for how the arrow points northeast on the right side of the aircraft.
Quoting Lincoln (Reply 9): Yeah, the simplicity and subtelty of that was amazing second only, perhaps, to the giant forward arrow in FedEx's logo.
Agreed. (I keep forgetting the arrow is there...thanks for reminding me!)
VANGUARD737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 688 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15212 times:
What I just don;t understand is why this is getting you so worked up? I mean it sounds as if you are personally affended by the idea of someone thinking the United U looks like a tulip. Who cares? If they think it looks like a tulip then thats their opinion. Even if they don't realize it is a U, what does it matter? I mean it is not as if because they misunderstand the logo and consequently think United is a tulip company or something....get over it :-P
As I wrote, logos that are mistaken for flying rats or Colonel Gaddafi are pretty bad. Damage to a brand happens when people associate the logo etc with something negative, like the afore-mentioned examples.
UA really has little to worry about if people think it's U is something as pretty (and positive) as a tulip. Flowers have positive connotations so it could actually be a good thing. UA could make it a tongue-in-cheek point of difference by having vases of Tulips in the lounges, tulip pictures on menu covers or articles on tulip growing in the inflight magazines for example.
I can't see the same opportunties with rats or Colonel Gaddafi....
: It is so funny that this thread is currently active, because I have been talking with my fellow UA coworkers a lot lately about the "U" logo, as we ca
: Except Saul Bass created the United logo ... and I don't believe Westin had anything to do about it.
: Has anyone else noticed that on some Northwest planes the logo points Northeast (if it were a map)? How could they let that slip? Arrgghh!
: this is because the way the human eye recognizes things. we see, comprehend, alnalyze. when we see this triangle we see it in a vertical format, so,
: how about this... if you look at it and say it's a tulip, by-golly it's a tulip. if you think it's two "U's" united as one...then it is. if you think
: It is interesting that you mention this. I have never perceived the new tail logo in this way. It just goes to show how humans perceive things differ
: Maybe it is sometimes called a tulip for the same reason some people referred to the old Continental logo as the meatball? It's just a nickname. Relax
: That is exactly what I have always thought. Regardless, I always thought it was an effective logo. Cheers, AY104
: Maybe because I'm studying design? Maybe because I do care about the impact of a design on the public? I don't know, maybe I should change and live a
: After 40 years AA are in dire need of an extreme makeover....
: I guess you haven't noticed then that NW purposely did that so every little triangle points towards the front of the tail.
: Why the hell would their logo be a tulip?
: Regardless of how a person interprets United's "U", I must agree that by cropping the "U", the effectiveness of the logo is lost. It is too bad that U
: LOL...I wouldn't be surprised if you die by 30 from a heart attack. You are seriously like foaming at the mouth. You say you are studying design...we
: I couldn't agree more. It is outdated and style-less. (Hmmm...I suppose the name fits...).
: All it needs is a star at the top, but don't kill me if I use a star and you use an angel. We humans can't be diverse or different in any way
: As a landscape architect, I never thought my career would collide with my obsession, I am so happy it has, and now with my favorite airline! The old
: I don't see it. Was the arrow part of the old livery?