Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Jetstar Gets Approval For Services To HNL  
User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 18
Posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4931 times:

Quote:
Budget airline Jetstar has gained approval from the United States Department of Transportation (DOT) to start marketing its long haul services between Honolulu and Australia.

Jetstar intends operating three Sydney-Honolulu flights per week and two Melbourne-Honolulu flights per week with a fleet of Airbus A330-200s, offering two classes of service.

Jetstar chief executive Alan Joyce said that in the next few weeks the airline will start accepting flight reservations for its Hawaii services along with an announcement of its launch date.

Expect some very cheap introductory fares to HNL. I wonder what other possible US destinations that JQ can serve in the future if this route does go well
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/...ghts/2006/08/15/1155407802607.html

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11411 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4815 times:

Will this replace current Qantas service on the route?

And what does this mean for the long-term fate of Honolulu's Qantas Club?

Thanks in advance.


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 1):
Will this replace current Qantas service on the route?

I dont think it will because qantas only offer a 4x weekly service? so QF will keep that and may downgrade to a 767, Hopefully not before December anyway!

Are they still expecting to start next year once they get the two A330's with the range?



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4777 times:

You have to read the DOT order carefully. DOT is granting Jetstar the authority to operate to HNL - but not the schedule proposed.

Quote:
Consistent with Jetstar’s statement on the record that its illustrative service proposal was not a request for a specified number of frequencies or an invoking of any procedure under the U.S.-Australia aviation agreement with respect to the frequencies that Jetstar may operate between the United States and Australia. We confirm that our action here granting Jetstar authority is without prejudice to any determination we might reach on Jetstar’s formal filing for frequencies under the provisions of the U.S.-Australia bilateral air services agreement, and shall in no way bc deemed an approval of such filing.

See: http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf97/408956_web.pdf


User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4756 times:

Quoting ANother (Reply 3):
You have to read the DOT order carefully. DOT is granting Jetstar the authority to operate to HNL - but not the schedule proposed.

Thanks for that ANother.


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4750 times:

Are you sure theyre not replacing QF? The HNL-SYD market isnt all that large.

User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 734 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4745 times:

It is my understanding that the service can not start under the current US/Australia bilateral. Though I could be wrong.

If the bilateral has to be amended or renegotiated,to allow the service to start, the US will probably only accept openskies.

Any additional insight and information is appreciated.


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8661 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4733 times:

I think they will be replacing QF. Can someone tell me what they mean by 332's long enogh to the route. I know QF ordered 332's, but whats the range issue?

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4641 times:

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 6):
It is my understanding that the service can not start under the current US/Australia bilateral. Though I could be wrong.

I believe the ASA allows any US/Australian airline to operate - but new entrants are permitted a maximum of 4 weekly flights. Jetstar is asking for 5 (3xSYD, 2xMEL).


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4601 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 7):
I know QF ordered 332's, but whats the range issue?

Maybe QF's A332s don't have ETOPS 180 yet. I'm not sure though, because technically, an A332 should be perfectly capable of flying to HNL. Remember, AF operate one of the largest A332 flights, which is CDG-NRT at 5256 nm.

According to the Great Circle Mapper, SYD-HNL is a still air distance of 4403 nm, while MEL-HNL is longer at 4783 nm. That should be well within range for an A330-200.


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4576 times:

Its something to do with QF's A332's. They have had to order 2 more just for this route as theirs do not have the range. I cant remember the reason. QF do quite well with J class on this route honeymooners and retirees etc all like to fly J, well thats what ive heard any way


Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2918 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4480 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 7):
I think they will be replacing QF.

No they will be operating alongside QF on the route

http://www.jetstar.com/pdf/news/20060411b.pdf

"Honolulu increase to eight flights a week, with Jetstar offering three per week from Sydney and two per week from Melbourne in addition to Qantas' three weekly Sydney-Honolulu flights."

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 9):
Maybe QF's A332s don't have ETOPS 180 yet.

Qantas currently has permission to fly 180 ETOPS but Jetstar must be granted it in its own right by CASA before they can do it. I believe the application is still being worked through.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...tory/0,20867,19825600-2702,00.html


User currently offlineQantasA380 From Australia, joined Apr 2005, 212 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4454 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 7):
I think they will be replacing QF. Can someone tell me what they mean by 332's long enogh to the route. I know QF ordered 332's, but whats the range issue?

NO, they're not replacing Qantas, they are going to be operating alongside Qantas on the three days a week that Qantas doesn't fly SYD-HNL...

The issue with the current QF A332 is that Qantas specified a lot of options to make the aircraft more suited to short (1.5-5hr) flights, rather than more suited to long (as in SYD-HNL) flights... so to operate these four aircraft on "long" routes they need to be modified.



Virgin Blue - what colour's RED????
User currently offlineOnedude From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4449 times:

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 10):
QF do quite well with J class on this route honeymooners and retirees etc all like to fly J, well thats what ive heard any way

Unfortunately the reason Jetstar is entering HNL and Qantas will eventually withdraw is the lack of full fare paying J class passengers in the pointy end. This is purely a route of leisure, VFR and very low business class passengers - plus with HA, AC and NZ it is a very low yielding route.

Cheers,
onedude


User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4276 times:

Jetstar flying to HNL will that get much airfreight? It shouldn't put off HA flying HNL-MEL,SYD with 744 (secondhand) while moving the 763 to HNL-BNE. HA will do well northbound out of Australia to mainland with passengers and well southbound with freight. Increasing Australia improves HA's business immediately IMO. Dunckerley being too conservative at the moment.
Perhaps as few as 3-4 744's would enable HA to compete on SYD,MEL,BNE,ADL to SEA,PDX,SAN,LAS,LAX,SFO.
QF needs about 115 787's to do the same thing.


User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4270 times:

HNL-BNE?

Oh my goodness, is RichardJF actually Simpilicity under a witness protection change of identity?

I'm trying to go on NZ to HNL next Easter, and find that having axed LAX-HNL, which admittedly struggled, they have lost all their European HNL feed, and reduced AKL-HNL to twice weekly.

And so, I have reluctantly concluded, that HNL is a poor market proposition for Australia and NZ, and I hardly think that HNL-BNE is viable.

(Having said that, if Air Canada tried YVR-HNL-BNE it just might have an outside chance...)


User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4245 times:

Koruman - In fact you are right and I forgot to mention QF's 787's will of course be 15% cheaper to run per seat than HA's 744's.

User currently onlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5293 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4213 times:

Quoting QantasA380 (Reply 12):
NO, they're not replacing Qantas, they are going to be operating alongside Qantas on the three days a week that Qantas doesn't fly SYD-HNL...

They will! I've heard QF will drop the route probably late 2007.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 15):
and reduced AKL-HNL to twice weekly.

Currently operating 4 weekly. There is a one off 744 this Thursday even, not sure why but I guess it is the peak season to go to HNL from down under.

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 16):
Koruman - In fact you are right and I forgot to mention QF's 787's will of course be 15% cheaper to run per seat than HA's 744's.

Your talking like HA already have 744's, it won't happen.


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4194 times:

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 16):
HA's 744's.

HA has just come out of Bankruptcy and they have just got a few more 763's, they have said that they want to keep the fleet nice and simple. I doubt that they would have the need or want 744's.

Will we see QF downgrade from the 743 or will it keep the 743 to give it a run once in a while?



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4163 times:

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 6):

UA doesn't fly to Australia from HNL, but they weren't too happy.



Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlineKoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4153 times:

I'm confused about Air NZ's HNL services (as everyone can probably tell).

Next Easter their website shows only a twice weekly NZ9/10, the daytime flight up to HNL and the overnight return.

Are there also going to be additional NZ11/12 services, overnight up to HNL and daytime back to AKL?

It's a shame: I still think that axing the HNL-LAX sector gave away a lot of UK / Europe market share of people wanting to stopover to/from Australia and NZ.


User currently onlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5293 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

Quoting Koruman (Reply 20):
Are there also going to be additional NZ11/12 services, overnight up to HNL and daytime back to AKL?

I'm not sure but it is to far out to tell though for next year. The current NZ11/12 only started on August 12 and I think run until the end of September.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 20):
It's a shame: I still think that axing the HNL-LAX sector gave away a lot of UK / Europe market share of people wanting to stopover to/from Australia and NZ.

Yes you may well be right there but i think the fact they couldn't carry pax from LAX-HNL probably meant they didn't have the greatest loads even with those coming from Europe. Though they did fly the route for a long time!


User currently offlineZKNBX From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4134 times:

Actually, If NZ had the foresight to give Freedom longer legs, it could have placed 1 or 2 B763 with Freedom, to handle lower yielding routes like HNL, and certain destinations in SE Asia.

User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4073 times:

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 18):
Will we see QF downgrade from the 743 or will it keep the 743 to give it a run once in a while?

I think we will se the B763 on this route. The B743 will to do domestic runs

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 9):
According to the Great Circle Mapper, SYD-HNL is a still air distance of 4403 nm, while MEL-HNL is longer at 4783 nm. That should be well within range for an A330-200.

Not for QF's A332
http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying/inTheAir/ourAircraft/seatMap332


User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5523 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4051 times:

Heres some more info on Jetstar's plans in to Hawaii

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...ory/0,20867,20144465-23349,00.html


25 777ER : Didn't QF order 2 more A332s because of the A380 issues? NZ code-share on UAs LAX-HNL services I flew on NZ11 on August 13th from HNL-LAX and I didn'
26 VHVXB : They ordered 2 A330's not sure if it was the 300 or 200.
27 ZK-NBT : They were 200's which will mainly be used to China and India and are for QF. 2 additional A332's were earlier ordered for JQ aswell.
28 Miami1 : Onedue is right. Qantas will eventually withdraw from the route. HNL bleeds money and hasnt made a profit in many years. J class is almost all Frequen
29 9252fly : AC has operated to MEL in the past,I believe the route was YYZ-HNL-BNE. I don't think it preformed as well as hoped,then again,it did okay. It will b
30 ANother : When? Don't you mean IF? AFAIK AC does not have traffic rights LAX - SYD. The Canada - Australia ASA gives Canadian airlines rights via SFO, HNL and
31 Sydscott : Actually I'm sure that Air Canada would rather not stop anywhere on the route and fly it direct all the time when the appropriately ranged aircraft c
32 6thfreedom : Nope... MEL was operated Nov 2001 to August 2002. 3pw YYZ-HNL-MEL, with a transfer of pax on the YVR-HNL-SYD service. Quite smart scheduling, but the
33 LTU932 : " target=_blank>http://www.qantas.com.au/info/flying...ap332 That's full payload MTOW. Obviously you'll have less range if you max capacity out, as it
34 VHVXB : Yes that does seem like a better idea for AC You maybe right there.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
JetBlue Gets Approval For 4 Flights To ORD posted Mon Oct 16 2006 22:00:41 by Planemannyc
OceanAir Gets Approval For Brazil-LIM, JNB, LOS posted Wed Aug 23 2006 21:56:45 by Hardiwv
Delta Gets Approval For Atlanta-Leon, Mexico posted Wed Jun 14 2006 14:13:59 by Juventus
Northwest Gets Approval For Two Jet-Finance Deals posted Thu Dec 22 2005 20:38:31 by KarlB737
Frontier Gets Approval For Denver-Acapulco posted Mon Sep 12 2005 06:01:27 by Juventus
Any Demand For A Europe To HNL Non-stop Service? posted Sat Sep 10 2005 16:16:57 by N593HA
Lufthansa Gets U.S. Approval For Takeover posted Mon Jul 4 2005 14:21:04 by Avek00
Sun Country Gets Approval For MSP-SJD/HUX posted Tue Jun 28 2005 16:32:16 by PVD757
DSM-DCA, Approval For NW To Fly Yet? posted Tue Sep 21 2004 04:09:54 by Iowaman
QF Services To HNL posted Thu Apr 8 2004 06:48:08 by Aq737